The death of the US Democracy

burdman I couldn't agree with you more. The fifties fiasco of cleaning up on silver and gold coins and silver dollars.
It's much easier to fool the masses one little chessmove at a time before they see four queens staring them down.
You are my newest friend lol.
Marg...my friend forever.
Yes Marg, it 'is' pathetic totally and completely. The only thing in my life that has gotten better is not listening to Hillary bleating like a school marm.
Illusion...your words sing sweet and true.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by jpm1602]

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[edit on 7/14/2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by jpm1602


Well thanks you have been my friend too It is sad that the vicious cycle in our nations politics can destroy and eliminate any candidate that do not subscribe to what the elite control government wants.

That is why when it comes to the so call Fresh face of Obama that is making many so hopeful and happy because they think change is coming, I am very sad, the reason is that he already has sold his soul to them.

That is why he is still in a candidate, perhaps in the beginning he had some honorable intentions but now I can not see him any different than McCain or any other in the political elite class.

When America vote last year to change congress we were all hopeful, then nothing happens things are the same and nobody has stand against any policies that we as citizens has seen as dangerous.

Nobody ask for our opinions and wishes anymore.

Sad

It is always an honor and a great privelege to speak with anyone on this board.
You marg are alike. We think alike so many times on so many issues.

I don't know where this is going. We are on the verge of a strike on Iran. National City bank once the ninth largest bank in the US shut down trading this morning.

Cali is opening parks for people who live out there vehicles.

A twinburg police officer got shot in the head last night while his k9 was probably going basketcase.

It's a sick world we currently live in.

Lol....beware of the military industrial complex. Can't believe they haven't censored that from the media.

Peace.
The strength of the wolf is the pack. The PACK!. You know where I got that? That fruitloop LA basketball team coach. I think he's buddhist or something.

It will in the end take the pack to reconcile this insanity.


[edit on 7/14/2008 by jpm1602]

reply to post by jpm1602


I agree that we need to act collectively, as a pack. The problem is our society has been for years subtly isolating us from one another. Even "social websites" like MySpace and the like effectively isolate us because the "us" that interacts with "others" is (usually) a false one. (to some varying degree) Smoke and mirrors.

I have to say, however, that this thread gives me some sense of hope. I so glad to hear others who see what is going on as well. We may not all call it the exact same thing, or place the timeline exactly the same, but to me those details are not important enough to fight over. It is enough for me that so many others just see it. We may not know what to DO about it yet, but seeing the problem is the most important step, and often the most difficult one.

Blessed Illusions....my new newest friend.
I could not have thought in any way to succintly say....what you just said.
Name is John by the way.
Pleased for your correspondence.
Thank you
Divide and conqueur. Like the red and blue states. Yep. We've been getting prepped for this for some time now.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by jpm1602]

Did someone just post an article detailing how America as a "Democracy" (actually a Republic) was doomed...

And that Corporation's.. the Elite.. and Foreigners are taking over the country and no one gives a damn about the people?

Well by golly..

That's some revelation there.........

Except it all occurred back in 1777 ...

The idea that people can govern themselves is idiotic.. it's an idea that self destructs.. the ignorance and complacency of the people will always lead to absolute corruption. It's only a miracle this masquerade lasted as long as it did..

The Chysler building. An American icon. One for the the Saudis.
Who's laughing now. In all fairness Japan had there way with us in the early 90's.
Pathetic.
15 of 19 hijackers were what?
Saudi.
George the first was having lunch with who on 911?
The Saudi royal family.
And got em the hell out here before CIA could interrogate.

They are quite fond of their very large structures too.
Look it up.

Those buildings could go bye bye too.

I just really don't know what to think anymore.

To hell in a handbasket. Meet ya there.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by jpm1602]

Great Thread Marg!!!!

Flagged and Starred..

More people need to wake up to this whether it is new or old. Complacency is not going to work anymore as things get worse and worse...

We all have to take a stand, Hellboy or Ironman or Average Joe...

Semper

reply to post by semperfortis


Thanks, semper, you know I have lost my faith in our political system, I know that many has lost their faith also.

Do you think is to much to ask for a honorable politicians to step in, take care of us the people first and then take care of the problems of our nations safety abroad?

One thing is to love your nation and be proud of it while helping other countries become successful and independent from their own governments.

But right now we need more help than any of those countries out there that we are trying to help.

We need a hero and that is in very scarce numbers now a days.

Money is good, but it also can corrupt the most righteous of men.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You know the truth historically speaking but we have our own politicians drilling to us the good of our own democracy and how we can spread that democracy abroad.

Actually, you know exactly what they are spreading around the world.

No politician talks about the republic anymore,

Actually I should had name this thread The death of the Republic.

that has been truly death and buried long time ago.

Honarable politicians? ROFL.
Isn't that like jumbo shrimp?
Sorry magret...couldn't help myself on that one.
Democracy abroad. Now you are killing me. Ask the Iraqis who got white phosphorus'd. Oh wait, no one can. There all dead
Not a jibe marg....
No one likes us. I don't know why. We may not be perfect, but heaven knows we try.
Randy Newman. 'Political science'. A worthy read.

Oh ya, we goin' to bring freedom everywhere. And Saddam was a bad man even though Condi came up empty on all them their mushroom clouds.

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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
I don't disagree with the idea behind this article, I do disagree with the idea that it's a new thing.

I couldn't agree more. I don't think democracy has ever worked in a pure form - even the Greeks only let male landowners vote. Where I live, the government has only "changed" 3 times in the 103 years of its existence, and the last "election" gave an 80% majority in the Legislature to the ruling party with less than 20% of the vote. Ain't no democracy here.

Perception is reality, so if people believe their vote actually means something, they'll stick with it. The problem is, in the age of information, we are realizing it means squat.

What is the alternative? Benevolent dictatorship? Theocracy? Anarchy? Faux democracy sounds the best of the bunch.

Perception is reality. There ya go. So it is written, so it shall be.

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reply to post by jpm1602


You are right, the reason nobody like our nation is because what our leaders are spreading is as far away from democracy as you can even think.

I got a name for it, is called greed and hypocrisy.

And they careless about who they screw in their way.

Originally posted by cannonfodder

What is the alternative? Benevolent dictatorship? Theocracy? Anarchy? Faux democracy sounds the best of the bunch.

We need a philosopher king. (or queen) Meritocracy all the way, not that it will ever happen, as Plato himself was quite honest about.

I think one of the first ways to start controlling our government is to start controlling our Media. Think about it the media is probably the biggest pawn for the gov. right now and the most powerful.

One must find ways to disarm this weapon from them or turn it against them. I've actually been surprised lately with MSM as a lot more reporters seem to be voicing opinions that do not go with the current agenda. I think they know/sense something might be going down and they are now trying distance themselves from anything negative they could be seen in cohoots with, like selling another invasion to the public.

I dont know how this would be possible maybe we must introduce a bill or what. But I always wondered if we ran the media sort of like our current gov. runs now is it would be any better. Think about it, the general public being able to vote in the chief editor, anchorwoman or man, or writer every 2 to 3 years to make sure that one part does not control power for too long.

I don't even know if this is worth considering because it hasn't really held up in our government lately.

reply to post by thegdfather


It was a time when the media was what is call independent now is a corporate entity, we know that our own government is now also a corporate ruled entity so when money talks BS walk.

Perhaps if we were able to gather a few millions we may be able to buy ourself something now a days in this nation.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

We need to begin to undo the damage to the Constitution that has been done by case law expanding corporate powers and "rights."

The Constitution has not been a legally binding force of law since the Civil War. Case law is nothing more than public policy, not actual law in a Constitutional sense or context.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



[edit on 7/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox

The Constitution has not been a legally binding force of law since the Civil War. Case law is nothing more than public policy, not actual law in a Constitutional sense or context.

[edit on 7/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Agreed, I phrased that badly. I was referring to the fact that corporate "rights and powers" are derived entirely from case law, not from any specific Constitutional amendment granting them personhood. However, I am of the opinion that if we allow treaties like NAFTA to grant corporations rights that supersede the rights of "persons" (such as Chapter 11 of NAFTA which allows corporations to sue the US government for enacting laws or policies that are detrimental to that corporations bottoms line, which clearly the average citizen can not do) then we run the risk of our Constitution becoming worth less than the paper it is written on.

That is why I was saying the case law was damaging our Constitution. The idea of corporate personhood allows them rights they were never intended by the framers to have. They are using these case law derived "rights" to influence politics in ways that are effectively undermining our own Constitutionally granted ones.

Edit to add a nice article on the "Supreme Court Inc," from the New York Times, for anyone who may be interested. It is worth the read and not terribly long.

www.nytimes.com...





[edit on 14-7-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Actually that is what NAFTA will be doing anyway, it will make the US constitution obsolete and America will lose its sovereignty.

A new constitution of like kind of paper will be made.

We as Americans that cherish our nation and our sovereignty can not allow this to happen.



[edit on 14-7-2008 by marg6043]