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Can You Laymen Handle the Masonic Truth?

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posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Hi all. I see a lot of people here either attacking Masonry outright, or questioning it in an extremely provincial and narrow minded manner.

I have a few things to posit, and a few rhetorical questions to ask mostly to the non-Masons, the ones that fear the things beneath the cloak of darkness and the secrecy.

First of all, let it be known that I am not a Mason and am no way affiliated with them. I have considered joining them in the past and would still consider attempting to do so at sometime in the future.

The idea that I want to present is that of perspective. People see things differently from their viewpoints and perspectives based upon the conditioning (and/or brainwashing) that they have received throughout their childhoods and lives. For example, we are conditioned all our lives as Christians (for those of us that are, or any Abrahamic religion for that matter) that Satan is evil. Lucifer is evil, 666, the beast, etc.
The truth is we do not even understand or attempt to comprehend these concepts or what they could possibly mean. We just see the symbol forever etched into our minds as Satan=Bad. Simple enough we don't have to give it any thought and it's easy for us to navigate our lives with this simple 2 color system. Either black or white and nothing in between.
There is much discussion and ridicule in the whole Mason/NWO/Illuminati train of thought that the highest Masons at the top worship Satan.
How easy it is for those conditioned Christians incapable of individual contemplation to instantly equate this with pure evil and automatically deduce that Masonry=Evil=NWO=Illuminati=Reptilians=whatever else your mind has happened to have the term 'evil' conditioned and paired with.
But I ask hypothetically for those of you capable and WILLING to lay aside your pre-conceived notions and conditioned responses for a moment, to contemplate a few premises.
For example, Masons often speak of Light and some sort of ascension towards this goal. Recall that Lucifer means in Latin, "Light Bringer". Also, please recall that in your own beloved Bible it is written that Lucifer was God's most beloved and special archangel.
Thinking of the great beast "Satan" in those terms seems to cast a different "Light" on the matter.
The simple connotation of a phrase like "Satan worshippers!" is quite different than the connotations inherent in a group of people perhaps exalting a commonly reviled figure from a different 'perspective', that once achieved no longer makes it so 'evil'.
After all, the Bible itself seems to hide many things. Perhaps it is one of the reasons that very religious men turn to Masonry, a group that carries the hope of true Knowledge, something that is only hinted at in the Bible.
Ofcourse the preceding would be blasphemous to the fanatically religious, after all to them every single letter in the Bible is as it should be.
However, to the curious and ever searching mind, one must wonder about some of the most fundamental precepts of the Bible.
For example the concept of the garden of good and evil with the tree of knowledge being the one that God forbid us from ever touching. Obviously it is metaphorical. Do you not wonder what is this knowledge that the almighty God himself has forbid us from knowing? Ofcourse the know-it-all modern preachers will simplify it and often tell some nonsensical allegory about how it is the knowledge of good and evil but I think we all know there must be more to it. Perhaps the Light and eternal wisdom that Masonry promises can reveal those truths. However the question remains, would any of you be able to handle and accept that Truth?
After all, if the people in power, the people that controlled certain Truths so powerful that they could change a human being's entire perception of existence knew that anyone and everyone would be able to handle this Truth, they would not need to disguise it beneath unending layers of archaic symbols, allegorical pageantry, metaphor




posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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s and so forth.

Obviously, the perspectives and the mind sets of those laymen, many of which frequent these boards, would be insufficient in preparing them to reap the true fruits of this Knowledge. Only time and the gradual shifting of one's perspective through abstract realignment of mental centers, belief systems and understandings would enable the person to be ready to receive the highest forms of knowledge. The mind functions at its very core only in subconscious forms of archetypal symbols. I believe that the people at the top understand this and they have deftly crafted through centuries of devotion a system of gradual intimation and conditioning of the mind to be in the proper perspective required in order to be able to not only fully appreciate the Truth, but understand it.
I am certain very few of you here would be able to understand some of the things that I would assume a 32 or 33 (and higher)degree Mason would know intimately about the Laws of Man and the Universe.
The only way to prepare yourself to accept Truth is to open your mind and not let it be bound by the earthly constraints of Fear and other vices that the Masons profess to be against.
I would like some high ranking Masons to chime in here and give me your opinions as well as this is all conjecture based on my instinctual understanding of the dynamics of human thought patterns and mind systems. I am one who seeks the Light and the Truth and I for one open mindedly explore those who know the path.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Fulcrum29
After all, if the people in power, the people that controlled certain Truths so powerful that they could change a human being's entire perception of existence knew that anyone and everyone would be able to handle this Truth, they would not need to disguise it beneath unending layers of archaic symbols, allegorical pageantry, metaphor


On the contrary, even children are better adapted to such 'truth' than misogynistic old farts wielding capes and sceptres. Holding back knowledge is the highest indulgence of selfishness, specifically designed to create a pyramidal social hierarchy. In fact, is quite the reason why the world is such a mess. Good luck on your search for light and truth etc but just remember that the 'guys at the top' are responsible for the world you see around you. Judge them by their fruits?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Very interesting points!

I just wanted to throw one little thing into the discussion for reference.

The 32nd degree is (I believe) given in the Scottish Rite and is the last degree of that Rite.

The 33rd degree is an honorary title that is bestowed on men who have spent a lot of time contributing to masonry and Rite. I don't think you can request to be a 33rd.

I have heard some of the Scottish Rite guys joking around about the 33rd some times and it usually goes something like, "Hey did you hear that Bob was supposedly going to get his 33rd this year but they looked and he didn't pay enough money!"



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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My guess is that even the highest level members of "Secret Societies" for the most part no longer understand the "truth and light" that those societies once were formed to pass down. I believe they have for the most part degraded to cliquish clubs, with lots of ceremony and little substance.

Much like modern religions have lost the message of their prophets and messiahs, at least in their organized forms.

Not to say that I believe that "truth and light" isnt out there. I think there are scattered individuals who possess it. My guess is that these individuals are highly unpopular, ignored for the most part, and pretty much just keep their mouths shut unless they find someone who, (as Jesus was fond of saying) has the eyes to see and the ears to hear.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Fulcrum29
Also, please recall that in your own beloved Bible it is written that Lucifer was God's most beloved and special archangel.
Really? Can you point me to chapter and verse on that one? Because the only references to Lucifer I'm aware of are in Isaiah and say nothing of the sort.

Dante & Milton popularized the current beliefs of devils & fire & brimstone, but it's not in the Bible... only in works of fiction.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
Very interesting points!

I just wanted to throw one little thing into the discussion for reference.

The 32nd degree is (I believe) given in the Scottish Rite and is the last degree of that Rite.

The 33rd degree is an honorary title that is bestowed on men who have spent a lot of time contributing to masonry and Rite. I don't think you can request to be a 33rd.

I have heard some of the Scottish Rite guys joking around about the 33rd some times and it usually goes something like, "Hey did you hear that Bob was supposedly going to get his 33rd this year but they looked and he didn't pay enough money!"



Thanks for the reply.
Yes just from the few threads I read on here and my own research on the internet I was able to ascertain that 32 is indeed the highest degree in Scottish Rite, being called Knight of St Andrew (KoSA) apparently in some if not all of the 'districts/jurisidictions'.
And yes this is the highest nominal ranking with 33rd being the one as you said that is conferred by the grand council only upon those who have contributed greatly in some way. Though I shouldn't use the word ranking because yes I'm aware that in theory and technically 3rd degree Master mason is the highest you can go with the rest being 'lateral' degrees of knowledge and higher learning rather than vertical ascent in rank/superiority, not to mention that the Scottish Rite itself is an appendant body not exactly Freemasonry itself but sort of an outer 2ndary school so to speak that is not a requisite part of actual Blue Lodge Masonry.
Either way I believe that these higher levels of Masonry carefully and cleverly mask their significance and essence. In becoming enlightened we must be wary of semantics and the power of Words and Symbols, something I noticed the higher level Masons are very keen of. And with that said, "cleverly mask" has certain dark connotations in the modern vernacular and understanding but they are insinuations I do not wish to consciously make. It is understood that Masonry is a secret society and as such, like any other society/institution in possession of valuable secrets/knowledge, defense systems must be put in place to make it impossible for the uninitiated to discover the secrets therein.
Apart from typical and direct oaths of secrecy, it is my humble contention that Masonry further protects its valuable secrets via a series of abstract layers of graded understanding which acts as a sort of cypher, ensuring that no one will be able to decode them. You see oaths can be broken, rituals can and have been compromised and taped (I have seen alleged such ones on youtube etc, for example an alleged 33 degree rite in Turkey secretly taped involving the sacrificing of a live Lamb and the subsequent drinking of its warm blood, etc), so that is why a much more secure method of guarding the secrets had to be devised. This method is not as simple as a cypher however. A cypher is a one dimensional and single layer code that when cracked immediately produces all of its contents. Thus by implementing a system of gradal and progressive levels of philosophical/spiritual/metaphysical understanding, (perhaps the higher level 'degrees' represent these steps), the creators ensure that even if a high level ritual or manuscript or correspondence were to be compromised, the contents would simply not be understood by anyone other than those who have already attuned their minds through the gradual process of ascension to the proper understanding and perspective required for that particular level.
This is why I posit that a simple viewing of a 33+degree ritual by the typical layman would be greatly misconstrued and taken out of context. The layman does not possess the required perspective required to take the knowledge in the proper context and thus certain symbols used would have completely different connotations to the layman whose mind has been conditioned since birth



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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to associate certain symbols with certain other emotions for example.
This is how a leaked ritual of blood being drunk from a skull of such and such apostle (for example, if such a ritual even exists) would immediately scream of "Evil/Satan/Shaitan/Lucifer/Beelzebub" to the pre conditioned mind of the uninitiated.
And hence my greatest interest in Masonry lies in the 'teachings'.


I am curious of any Knights of Saint Andrew and higher to please chime in and tell us as much as you can about the teachings that are commenced during the course of the procession from 4 to 33 and higher.

Are these teachings secret? I don't know the particular rules, if so can they be alluded to or clues given?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by Fulcrum29
I am curious of any Knights of Saint Andrew and higher to please chime in and tell us as much as you can about the teachings that are commenced during the course of the procession from 4 to 33 and higher.

Are these teachings secret? I don't know the particular rules, if so can they be alluded to or clues given?
You can buy Morals & Dogma at Amazon (or just read it online for free at www.sacred-texts.com...).

For all the people who believe that the lower degrees are lied to, and the truth is in the upper degrees, I've always wanted to suggest reading the chapters of M&D in reverse order. As far as I know, nobody's ever taken me up on that suggestion.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Fulcrum29
Also, please recall that in your own beloved Bible it is written that Lucifer was God's most beloved and special archangel.
Really? Can you point me to chapter and verse on that one? Because the only references to Lucifer I'm aware of are in Isaiah and say nothing of the sort.

Dante & Milton popularized the current beliefs of devils & fire & brimstone, but it's not in the Bible... only in works of fiction.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by JoshNorton]


I'm not an expert on religion whatsoever but I believe that the common tale of Lucifer we all know stems from Jerome's Vulgate translation of the bible which to my knowledge was the authoritative translation for hundreds of years up until the end of the middle ages though I'm not too sure on that. Yes there have been many translations of the bible as I sincerely hope you are aware.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Also I should add that I'm not referring to the 'fire and brimstone' version of Satan/Lucifer as you suggested but rather specifically the tale that Lucifer the Light Bearer was God's chosen and favorite archangel/seraph and was cast down from heaven due to his narcissism/arrogance.

But this is all besides the point, I just wanted to clarify that but as I said it has no real bearing on the main ideas I've put forth in my initial post.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Fulcrum29
I am curious of any Knights of Saint Andrew and higher to please chime in and tell us as much as you can about the teachings that are commenced during the course of the procession from 4 to 33 and higher.

Are these teachings secret? I don't know the particular rules, if so can they be alluded to or clues given?
You can buy Morals & Dogma at Amazon (or just read it online for free at www.sacred-texts.com...).

For all the people who believe that the lower degrees are lied to, and the truth is in the upper degrees, I've always wanted to suggest reading the chapters of M&D in reverse order. As far as I know, nobody's ever taken me up on that suggestion.

I think you would agree that a "secret society" has secrets, as per its name. No Mason here I believe will disagree with me when I say that there are certain things in Masonry that are secret, i.e. by the definition of the word: you are bound by oath not to tell anyone outside of Masonry. This is FACT.
Thus, what we can infer from this simple deduction is that no book (in reference to your recommendation from amazon) can claim to divulge all there is to know about the higher levels of Masonry (or any levels for that matter).
Thus we can all assume that, if there ARE teachings of a higher level that are withheld from lower degree Masons, no published book would ever be able to divulge them.
Thus through that simple deduction, I will hereby state that I have no interest in that particular book which I would therefore assume teaches only the things about Masonry that are either commonly known or ALLOWED to be known.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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I have a rather extensive selection of the material relating to the knowledge and can say unequivocally that there isn't a smidgen of anything that could be described as "evil". Using it in an evil and selfish manner will get you a very big spanking you'll not soon forget.


I actually awakened to the ability to use it on my own and learned the lessons quite early. Later reading helped educate me about where I went wrong and how to do it properly.

The secret societies that bring about the most anxiety with the conspiracy crowd also, in my best estimation, seem to originate in the posession and teaching of the knowledge. If one is familiar with it, the fact of another's knowing is often apparent. I once bought into the "they're all in it to enslave us" notion, but no longer.

The Bible precepts simply seem to actually be an elaborate reencoding of various truths through allegory, epic, etc. I think this extends pretty much extends to all the world's major religions. That's something I plan on exploring the reality of at some point anyway.

If you're ready for it, it will reveal itself anyway and so I would say "It found me." rather than "I found it." I am very grateful for it since it has improved my life and lives of others around me.

I do get a feeling there's slightly more being concealed here my Mason posters than simply not talking about the rituals but it doesn't feel as though it goes too deep beyond that here.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by Fulcrum29
I think you would agree that a "secret society" has secrets, as per its name. No Mason here I believe will disagree with me when I say that there are certain things in Masonry that are secret, i.e. by the definition of the word: you are bound by oath not to tell anyone outside of Masonry. This is FACT.
That is indeed a fact. It's even a FACT. (and a FaCT, if you insist...) But the only secrets in Masonry are the modes of recognition (hand signs, hand shakes, passwords) and the obligation. Just about everything else is fair game.


Thus, what we can infer from this simple deduction is that no book (in reference to your recommendation from amazon) can claim to divulge all there is to know about the higher levels of Masonry (or any levels for that matter).
Divulge ALL? No, divulge everything but those items I've listed above? Sure. They're even published by Masonic bodies for Masons and non-Masons alike to study.


Thus we can all assume that, if there ARE teachings of a higher level that are withheld from lower degree Masons, no published book would ever be able to divulge them.
The learning is progressive, but it is not exclusive. You were closer to the mark in your original statement that there are nuances and things that build from one degree to another which you would not recognize if you just jumped to the end of the book. But the overall meaning doesn't change no matter what order you read it in.


Thus through that simple deduction, I will hereby state that I have no interest in that particular book which I would therefore assume teaches only the things about Masonry that are either commonly known or ALLOWED to be known.
That's a shame, because the greatest teachings of Freemasonry are right there for anyone to read, and the world as a whole is either too stubborn or too lazy to pay attention, even when it's handed to them.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton
That's a shame, because the greatest teachings of Freemasonry are right there for anyone to read, and the world as a whole is either too stubborn or too lazy to pay attention, even when it's handed to them.


True statment. All of us have it within ourselves to become more enlightened, but in the same sense all of us can lose weight. Some of us need Weight watches to help set us on the path of weight lose. Some need Freemasonry to set them on the path of enlightment. Masonry offers nothing that can't be found elsewhere. The thing is, that it is nice to travel a path with a few friends, sometimes they even keep you from straying.


[edit on 14-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
My guess is that even the highest level members of "Secret Societies" for the most part no longer understand the "truth and light" that those societies once were formed to pass down. I believe they have for the most part degraded to cliquish clubs, with lots of ceremony and little substance.

Much like modern religions have lost the message of their prophets and messiahs, at least in their organized forms.


Based upon my limited knowledge I couldn't agree with you more, although I don't think that membership to such institutions precludes such knowledge or awareness, it certainly seems to fail in the majority of cases. The more I learn the more I realise that the necessity is in finding your own way or path but also in accepting the guidance that is offered by the example of others. I have encountered those who shine as bright as beacons but have absolutely no awareness that they are in any way 'elightened', they simply are what they are and through them you can learn how to really 'live'.

I have recently been studying the principles of wisdom, beauty and strength, which you and I have discussed before and how that corresponds to the Golden Ratio (3;4;5) when applied to operative masonry. To me this is demonstrated by the use of the square (strength and wisdom) to form the right angle. The compass then providing the beauty of creativity which forms the triangle that is the basis of gothic architecture. Plato in practice, in my most humble opinion. It is in simplicity itself, the order within chaos that shows the divine and the 'hand of god'.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 


Indeed. Being a member absolutely would not preclude the possibility of one having this knowledge of truth and light.

And there is, as both you and JoshNorton have made clear, a good deal of truth and light in the Masonic writings and symbolism that is there for anyone who has the mind and vision to take it. You in fact were the one who introduced me to the first Masonic texts I had ever read.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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The light of masonry is neither exclusive nor secret. Masons are made in their heart first, not in the lodge. It is available to all who seek it - going through the degrees is not required to understand it. Masonic philosophy is available freely and without secrecy. The only thing secret, as some have already mentioned, are the signs and grips which are so secret you can find them in 2 minutes on google.

It is quite possible to lead a masonic philosophy on life without ever calling it masonry and without ever darkening the doors of a lodge.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
The light of masonry is neither exclusive nor secret. Masons are made in their heart first, not in the lodge. It is available to all who seek it - going through the degrees is not required to understand it. Masonic philosophy is available freely and without secrecy. The only thing secret, as some have already mentioned, are the signs and grips which are so secret you can find them in 2 minutes on google.

It is quite possible to lead a masonic philosophy on life without ever calling it masonry and without ever darkening the doors of a lodge.


If what you say were to be true, it would paint Masonry as quite the hypocritical and contradictory institution.
Think about it, an institution claimng to be TRANSPARENT, PRAGMATIC/PRACTICAL, and down to EARTH, utilizes many SECRETS, SECRET OATHS, and an endless nebulous/convoluted web of ARCHAIC AND METAPHORICAL SYMBOLISM.
How sir, should we reconcile these great contradictions?
How can you be TRANSPARENT with no SECRETS yet require constant reaffirming OATHS that swear to SECRECY many things behind the CLOSED/OFFLIMITS doors of the lodge.
How sir, should we reconcile the PRACTICAL and down to EARTH missions of Freemasonry in the form of simple CHARITY and other seemingly "mundane" Earthly concerns with the endless webs of SYMBOLISM, MYTHOLOGIES, archaic archetypes and other subconscious targeting mechanisms and dynamics.
A great contradiction is before us gentlemen. One that belies the true hidden meanings and secrets beneath the seemingly "transparent" veil of the mudane down to earth blue collar Blue Lodge Masonry.
I for one have trained my mind for years to see through such efficacious misdirection and thus I lift the Golden Veil of Masonry and expose the True Light to all those who are prepared to accept its existence.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Fulcrum29
I for one have trained my mind for years to see through such efficacious misdirection and thus I lift the Golden Veil of Masonry and expose the True Light to all those who are prepared to accept its existence.
Go for it! Though you might want to, you know, join a lodge or something first. Hard to peak up the skirt through the veils of Masonry from outside the door. (We've got guys with shiny swords who discourage eavesdroppers and cowans....)




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