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Hard Disclosure Part III - Get it while you can.

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posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


A few questions.

Why wouldn't it be as useful to co-opt supposed nonfictional history in a way that emphasizes selected symbol sets?

The entire story wasn't laid out here. There is a component of the Neanderthal/Jewish thread that connects the better angels of both Jews and non-Jews. It is conceivable that all of the religious outcasts and social misfits who came to the New World (and Australia, for that matter) share a deep genetic and cultural legacy with the Jews. It's already in the canon that the European nobility share the same root. Why not make everyone noble?


Nearly all of humanity shares certain roots in cultural religions, I highly doubt that jews would be anymore specific than the rest. However, I could cope with the fact that certain religions might come close to understanding what really are the roots in question.

That in turn does not neccessarily lead to better personal development as these are also things that are fought against for.




posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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There's a specific question in which I would like to get an answer to. There's actually no reason for you to get into defensive stance, but its just that..

Why on earth have you not got any specific education in a narrow field like almost everybody else of your level in intelligence? I do not doubt that you do realize very much about a lot of things, but with false premises that are easily acquired without empirical knowledge, you are going go go into the forest. Aristotle was wrong in that thought alone can get it right. Sometimes, however, people are lucky. Are you?

(edit: I didn't get it either, but I think that was one of the dumbest ideas I ever had).

Another edit: You cannot change the world. I know that you have encountered lack of CV in context of does your opinion matter or perhaps it just does not. I have encountered it also, and that is not quite uncommon for me. However, by understanding which empirical knowledge is correct and what is not, and writing in a way that you do understand that such things are correct, you are going to get your credit in where it is due. Its how the world works for those who are uneducated. You cannot change that, and if it does change it will not be in your lifetime.

[edit on 18/7/08 by rawsom]

[edit on 18/7/08 by rawsom]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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About that culture created by corporations and rest of businesses.. Well, basically you begin with studying really hard about people's reaction to commercials. Then you study what effects it had in the long run, and start deducting what happens in situations x, y and z. Then, you are going to start planning for the future, implanting cultural habits to young people with aid of brand, marketing and that sort of thing. Within 80 years you have control of culture. Micro-culture is not involved in this. However, rest of the populatio nare.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter
reply to post by sc2099
 


You better believe it. Even during my "fit" or "spell" I was wondering whether it was a "genuine" mystical experience or a psychotic break. Hehehe.



Honestly, I think that's the only sane reaction one could have to such an experience. If it happened to someone and they just thought it totally normal, that's when I would begin to worry, haha.



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by rawsom
There's a specific question in which I would like to get an answer to. There's actually no reason for you to get into defensive stance, but its just that..

Why on earth have you not got any specific education in a narrow field like almost everybody else of your level in intelligence? I do not doubt that you do realize very much about a lot of things, but with false premises that are easily acquired without empirical knowledge, you are going go go into the forest. Aristotle was wrong in that thought alone can get it right. Sometimes, however, people are lucky. Are you?

(edit: I didn't get it either, but I think that was one of the dumbest ideas I ever had).


I am officially intrigued. I wish I could say "flattered", but here I am stuck again, not knowing what I don't know.

I would have to conclude that I am lucky, I suppose.

EDIT:

Why don't you just come out and tell me what specific false premises you are on about?

RE-EDIT:

Zing! You got me.

[edit on 18-7-2008 by applebiter]

[edit on 18-7-2008 by applebiter]



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 06:08 PM
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Hi Apple,
This discussion is fascinating, I'm in the process of reading the previous posts , (there's a lot of them!)trying to find out about your mystical experience, it sounds similar to something I experienced a few years ago.I will try and keep this as short as I can. I was not a particularly spiritual person but I have a very spiritual, but at the time I thought a bit flakey, mother. I encountered certain books which awakened an interest in these matters and I dabbled in meditation and other esoteric practices. Anyway to make a long story short, I didn't take it too seriously really until one day my mother read my cards for me. This was something she liked to do and did often. A question I had in my head was am I heading the right direction with my thoughts on spirituality, the cards were dealt and as my mother was reading them I began to feel strange feelings as each card was dealt I felt what can only be described as a pulse moving upwards in my body, further up with each card, with each pulse came a rising feeling of emotion to the point before the last card was read I felt my throat closing ,sort of how you feel before crying.At that point the phone rang, my mother got up, I turned up the last card myself, it was a picture of a budda figure superimposed on a picture of space, the card read "the earth is a school, you are almost finished (it was longer than that but I can't remember exactly). At that point the only way to describe what happened is that my mind exploded, I ran outside the house and suddenly I was in and of the universe feeling utter joy, totally aware that everything I could feel and see was part of everything else and that I was part of it. I'm not sure if it would be accurate to say it was a visual experience, I didn't see anything with my eyes but rather it felt from another vantage point. The event was the most powerful thing I have ever experienced I have no adequate words to properly describe it ,it passed quite quickly but left me sobbing for pure joy for hours afterwards .My mother knew something wonderful had just happened and later told me that what she thought had happened was a spontaneous Kundalini awakening. I knew very little about this at the time but have researched it since and it seems to fit the bill although what "it" actually is I still am unsure. At present I am swimming in a sea of knowledge and disinformation about our present reality and most of the matters that people talk about on this site. As I recognise an absolute truth in the validity of this particular experience ,any thoughts you could share on the nature of this experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanking you.
Tony



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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reply to post by Amaterasu
 


I'll try to elaborate on my insanity.

The land and the king are one. You and I are one. The planet and the species are one. The universe is one. All the way down to the bottom of things, which must be a very long way down. How many different possible meanings can a sign contain?

If you get a glimpse of it, even just once, then it will take you the rest of your mortal life to decode the message you received. I like to think of it as some kind of uber intelligence network. It's so clever that its secret message isn't even intended for you. You can only unfold it, for the benefit of the other. There's a saying that was attributed to Jesus in one of the apocryphal gospels:

"If you bring forth what is inside of you, then what's inside of you will save you. If you do not bring forth what is inside of you, then what's inside of you will destroy you."

I still haven't decided on how to read that, but it looks right. For me, it means that I am free to do what I will, but only for so long as God allows. How will I know? I'll be hit by a bus, shot by an assassin, choked by a ham sandwich, withered from cancer, or rounded up and executed by renegade Quakers. Or maybe something far less interesting. All I have is this life, right? All I can do is the best I can, right? All I have is how much love I can give for as long as this body lasts. There is nothing else but to serve others and to breed and to dream dreams.

As Lennon said, "I'd love to turn you on."

[edit on 18-7-2008 by applebiter]



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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I wish I had thought it through just a little longer before I posted my hypothesis and had thought about the things that rawsom recently brought to my attention.

Oh, well. It will be the last time I push any ideas at ATS. From now on, it's just conversation. This isn't sour grapes at all, but a little bit of regret. I just hadn't thought it through.

If an admin could delete these threads, it would be alright with me.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter

I wish I had thought it through just a little longer before I posted my hypothesis and had thought about the things that rawsom recently brought to my attention.

Oh, well. It will be the last time I push any ideas at ATS. From now on, it's just conversation. This isn't sour grapes at all, but a little bit of regret. I just hadn't thought it through.

If an admin could delete these threads, it would be alright with me.



that would be a shame if they were deleted...everyone is disconnected, yet connected at the same time. There are some out there that need to learn things at certain times.

Its all about expanding consciousness...shining lights on subjects...don't create posts that other people want to talk about all the time.
Post the stuff that is on your mind, because for some, a great deal of knowledge can be had.

The most intriguing thing to me is that the letters that we all type in on a keyboard are simply photons zooming into our retinas being perceived as light by our minds. All of which are energy, all of which are connected.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by applebiter

I wish I had thought it through just a little longer before I posted my hypothesis and had thought about the things that rawsom recently brought to my attention.

Oh, well. It will be the last time I push any ideas at ATS. From now on, it's just conversation. This isn't sour grapes at all, but a little bit of regret. I just hadn't thought it through.

If an admin could delete these threads, it would be alright with me.


If only it were that easy to erase regret. Seriously, it has been a good conversation and don't let its percieved shortcomings keep you from starting others. It was a learning experience that happens to every ATSer and is ongoing. I promise I'm not being pedantic. I think every user would say that they were hesitant about posting when they were new because they didn't want to get torn a new one by the masterdebators here. The key is to not let those thrashings stop you!



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by sc2099
 


I don't mind a fight. Sometimes I just wish I hadn't been so focused on winning. There are more important things than my brilliant insights to consider.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


I have tought about illusions caused by dualism a lot, and what to do with that knowledge. I just don't know. A lot of insigghtful people have written about it, and their views differ quite a lot. Whenever I actually try to write down what I personally believe to be at least partial truth about it, all symbols escape me. I run out of words. Sufficient words haven't been invented yet and if they are, it is next to impossible trying to explain things of global scale. That applies to everybody. Most propable is that I am simply not intelligent enough to do that, and it really pisses me of to understand something without capability to explain what.

But, my coffee at morning tastes and feels good anyway.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by rawsom
 


I decided that there is little practical difference between believing in God and believing in the confluence of world events, from my point of view.

So for me, the dualism inherent in human endeavors is comedy - a never ending punchline. Opposition between me and a neighbor, me and the State. My State and another State. It's all just comedy because "I" can't die.

Have a good one, rawsom.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


Generally speaking, we still need dualism to set limits and rules even when it causes most to fall into illusions about life. Good and bad is as good as an example as any other in this. We need to define what is wrong and what is not, and to do that we need to set a point that people shouldn't cross. It needs a bit of absolutism and a bit of liberty, and somebody must dedice whether something can be done very wrong to cause more good. It is someting that cannot be defined absolutely, because it causes more problems than total liberty. Even liberty is an illusion if everybody has it, because human nature tends to get control no matter what system is in use. It won't go away, so dualism will stay.

To actually get rid of it, we would need a system in which nobody can adapt to win everybody else. Does that make any sense? Propably not, altough I believe it to be correct solution anyway. Adaptation however is what is needed to survive in evolution. Should we stop evolution in a sense that there would be an abstract system in which people cannot adapt to win?

Maybe..

It just popped into my mind again that humans are a dying species anyway, so that would propably help us to survive. The problem is that bad genes are not dying away anymore, because most diseases and mutations are dealt so that people can stay alive anyway. That's reverse development, and someday somebody is going to get power to do something to undo that reverse development. That is not going to be a nice day.

[edit on 20/7/08 by rawsom]

[edit on 20/7/08 by rawsom]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by rawsom
 


I'm not a bit worried about anything. We aren't in need of saving, just a little dose of clarity. I think maybe the media school level of awareness and the politico level of awareness are nowhere near as relevant or as insightful as they seek to be. I think that's a good thing. Too many people with too many ideas about what is right for the rest of us.

The real game being played is keeping people obsessed with such things away from deeper knowledge.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by applebiter]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


It might just as well be clarity, that's allright. I tend to use too big words sometimes. Nearly all people I know do realize what's true and what is not, at least in some level.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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Christ what a thread,
Applebiter again you expand my mind. A great thread with some great responses.
I have to admit I have seen a lot of your posts recently and have to say what well rounded arguments/statements you make. Are you sure your not some ancient philosopher in disguise?

Anyway ill take my tongue back and clean my nose now.

Just wanted to say I appreciate reading and learning from your contributions and the debate/responses that produce from it.

Thanks

Peace



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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This thread has been most interesting...most interesting.
Applebiter and rawsom...what can I say? You both did some absolutely
bodacious philosophizin' these last few days here.
Consequently, I've added both you scamps to my friends list.

Not much I can add, other than to say I've become so jaded (maybe lazy?)
that as of the last couple years, my only contributions to philosophical
conversations and/or debates have been quoting the proverbs, maxims or
epigrams of the masters, be they Zen, Native American, Ancient Greek...



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