Bush Will Not Declare Martial Law, The USA Economy Will Not Completly Collapse

reply to post by tide88


You are talking about the powers of Congress. But that is irrelevant if Congress has already been subverted, and are themselves operating under martial law by Proclomation of the Commander-in-Chief.

(I know, I know, I haven't gotten to look over your source regarding the quorum yet. So let's just say this is argument for argument's sake for the moment.)

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by tide88

 

You are talking about the powers of Congress. But that is irrelevant if Congress has already been subverted, and are themselves operating under martial law by Proclomation of the Commander-in-Chief.

This where your understanding of martial law comes into play. Congress nor the Supreme Court ever operate under martial law. By declaring Martial Law it only gives the president the right to call upon congress to convene. He cannot tell them what to do once they have convened. As you can see congress under lincolns martial law still had power. He specifically states in the above mentioned that "PURSUANT OF THE PROCLAIMATION DATED APRIL 15TH, 1863, I HEARBY SUMMON BOTH THE HOUSE AND CONGRESS TO THEIR RESPECTED CHAMBERS" that was within his powers to do. However he also states "THEN THEY ARE TO CONSIDER AND DETERMINE SUCH MEASURES AS, WITHIN THEIR WISDOM,THE PUBLIC SAFTY AND INTEREST MAY DEMAND". The above qoute in fact proves even the president does not beleive he has power over the congress once they convene. On the next page of the above link, when the vice president resigned, which he did to congress in a letter, he signed that your OBEDIENT SERVENT So even the vice president still states that congress has power. And also you can see after they convened it was business as usual. The president never states anywhere that congress has to do what he says once they convened. Because he doesnt have the power to do so. Again martial law doesnt not give the president power over congress. It only give him a right for him to summon them.

But isn't the question about throwing law out the window?

I mean, in "scary-Bush-dictator-from-hell" scenario why would they care what laws are on the books?

The fear is that he'll initially use lawyers to declare some special state-status and then begin making up the rules as he goes.

people say that's what this administartion has done all along anyway.
They are "criminals," right?

If most people think martial law (or should I say "Marshall Law") is the granting of open-ended power to the executive branch, well then, that plays right into "their" hands, no?

Marshall Law. THAT'S what Bush and Co. should declare. Marshall Law and then the cabinet all get Stetsons and gold star badges...

reply to post by djerwulfe

But isn't the question about throwing law out the window?

Exactly.

reply to post by tide88

You're still thinking inside the box. As if the Constitution were all powerful and irrefuteable. Or has it been reduced to "a goddamn piece of paper," as Bush put it?

I am not claiming that Lincoln made any "orders" to Congress once they convened. But if there was no quorum, then Congress was no longer operating as a Constitutional and Democratic body. It was merely carrying out "business as ususal" at the behest of the President. And probably in what they thought was the best interest of the people at that time. To at least maintain some semblance of order.

reply to post by jackinthebox


I have no idea what would happen if Bush were to declare martial law today. However the argument has been side tracked because Jack says we are still under martial law today and have been since 1863. First off there was a quorum, so the argument is over. Congress didnt adjourn march 27th as you keep stating. THey couldnt because there was no quorum. That is why they ended their session the 28th, with the required quorum. Now to answer wulfe. My prediction is that Bush isnt going to declare Martial Law. As for you Jack this has gotten way off topic. Now you are stating what if. What if there wasnt a quorum. Well there was, as I just stated above and have provided the documentation on your other thread. (your signiture)

reply to post by tide88

Congress didnt adjourn march 27th as you keep stating. THey couldnt because there was no quorum.

Adjourning is actually one of the very few powers that they actually do have without a quorum, and to set a date to reconvene.

As for you Jack this has gotten way off topic. Now you are stating what if. What if there wasnt a quorum. Well there was, as I just stated above and have provided the documentation on your other thread.

We don't know that there was. But fair enough. I will disengage on that particular line of discussion in this thread until I have reviewed the evidence for your position.

My prediction is that Bush isnt going to declare Martial Law.

I think the Patriot Act is a declaration of martial law. It gives the regular military the right to operate on American soil, and even to go in and take people from their homes in the middle of the night, which they have done. If troops can bust into your house, take you, hold you indefinately without due process, I would call that martial law.

EDIT to add:

Government lawyers told federal judges that the president can send the military into any U.S. neighborhood, capture a citizen and hold him in prison without charge, indefinitely.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
~ Abraham Lincoln

[edit on 7/22/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by jackinthebox








[edit on 22-7-2008 by tide88]

reply to post by jackinthebox


March 27 1861

Mr Bayard "you cannot tell if there is a quorum until you have a vote upon it. If there appears to be no quorum, then I agree we cannot adjour sine die.

Mr Truble "the fact has been that there is no quorum; an until there is ascertained that there is a quorum,i raise the point in order that it is not competent for any person, any more it would be to introduce a bill or any other project.....

Mr. Breckenridge " It is true the senators point is well taken; but if nobody had raise it, we might have adjourned sine die."

The Constitution specifies that a majority of members constitutes a quorum to do business in each house. The rules of each house provide that a quorum is assumed to be present unless a quorum call demonstrates the contrary. Representatives and senators rarely force the presence of a quorum by demanding quorum calls; thus, in most cases, debates continue even if a majority is not present.
en.wikipedia.org...

PAGE 1519

Mr Breckenridge "As some preceedings have taken place since the vote which disclosed the want of a quorum, and it may be very possible that there is a quorum now in the chamber, and it will be assumed so,unless some question be raised....."

They want on to call a recess until the next day at 1 pm. The next day there was no quorum call, therefor it is assumed, by law, that a quorum was indeed present. if there is no quorum call there is a quorum


I need to edit. There was indeed a quorum on the 28 regardless. As there were 36 senators present. As you can see from the votes taken on that day. There show each of the ya's and nay's and who voted which way. Total votes. 36. They only needed 32 for a quorum.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by tide88]

December 21st, 2012

The end of the 26,000 year cycle that we currently exist in.

You are correct, the world will not END on December 21st 2012.

This day is the end of the Mayan Calendar, and the 26,000 year solar cycle.

Think about it.... how many different time periods are you taught about?

Prehistoric..... we have evidence of Creatures that lived millions of years ago.... These animals lived in their own 26,000 year cycle, and then when the calendar hit 13.0.0.0.0 (mayan long count) they all died off.

Be prepared not for the end of the world, but for a whole new cycle of life and evolution.

The world will still exist... but human kind could possibly become extinct.

As we start to realize that energy is depleting and weather is getting rougher..... the world is getting warmer... We could call this the opposite of the theorized "Ice Age."

It is a scientific fact that the Earth is turning to desert at the rate of 40 square miles per day. Proven.

So imagine yourself struggling to survive as the heat kills off certain species of animals. Rising co2 in the ocean will kill fish.... this will kill certain animals that rely on the fish.... this will cause a dramatic chain reaction where over the years humans will struggle untill they use every last bit of natural resources that we can to survive.

2012..... winter solstice. The sun reaches solar max. The sun's magnetic poles are scheduled to shift. North and south will switch after the sun's energy reaches its' peak, throwing off earth's orbit.

It has been confirmed that earth, already, has started experiencing pole shifts. If the rotation of this planet changes in any way it will effect weather everywhere.

"The ancient Maya understood this 26,000 year cycle to be specifically composed of 5 lesser cycles, each 5,125 years each. Each of these 5 cycles was considered its own World Age or Creation Cycle. As depicted on the familiar, circular MesoAmerican Sun Stone, (often called the Aztec Calendar) each Creation Cycle is said to have been ruled and destroyed by one of 5 elements. Specifically, 4 Jaguar, 4 Wind, 4 Rain, 4 Water.

Our present great cycle (3113 B.C. - 2012 A.D.) is called the Age of the Fifth Sun. This time period is ruled by 4 Earth. This fifth age is the synthesis of the previous four. 4 Earth (called Caban in the Maya language and Ollin in Aztec) has several meanings, including: movement, shift, evolution, earthquake, navigation, synchronicity, clue tracking, turtle. In the Maya language, the word "ol" of ollin means consciousness.

In Mayan calendrics, the initial date that Earth entered the Fifth World was August 13, 3113 BC, written in Mayan long count notation as 13.0.0.0.0. Every day from that point was reckoned by the number of days passed since the event of this cosmic beginning point. "

Who knows if there will be Marshall Law...

But what are the 500,000 Plastic FEMA Body vaults for?

Do yourself a favor and don't ignore the signs.

But also be careful and dont jump to conclusions.

Just acknowledge the fact that the world will not exist forever... and human kind has only existed a puny 5,000 years. This universe is larger than we will ever understand.....

Be prepared for people to take ANY ACTION NECESSARY to protect THEMSELVES.

Originally posted by djerwulfe
reply to post by solo1

 

I agree with many of the underlying themes of this post, but some of the details are sketchy.

Canadians can't own firearms?

WWII was an allied effort. Who said it wasn't? U.S. did drop a big bomb or two somewhere in the Pacific... I think I remember reading that somewhere.
And I think we had to do alot of pressuring to get the D-day operations going. I don't think Churchill liked Eisenhower's plan.

Canada does have the resources, but that's not the issue. We'll take them if we need them, don't worry!

I think the Great Lakes region already controls some of Canada, don't we? OK, try to mess with the Lakes and see who has what.

U.S. GDP: 13 trillion
Canada GDP: 1.8 trillion

We have a long way to fall before Canadians start running the show!

[/quote

well where should I start here
1 ) Canadians have the right to own some guns but there are restrictions
on such things like machine guns revolvers and such
2 ) what you may not know is that both Canada and the UK helped to finance those 2 bombs you say were dropped.
3 ) you can take 0 From Canada and you know it
4 ) I love batting floes that think bigger is better they make such easy targets
the American GDP has nothing to do with it
Canadian laws will prevail as there has to be a standard set of laws across the spectrum at some point.
American laws and its justice system is not in a state that it can do this.
all the changes happening now in the US Justice system actually conforms to Canadian laws
A ) Army allowed to patrol the streets Check
B ) marshal law at any time an emergency warrants it check
C )second amendment under attack constantly check
The constitution will not be allowed to prevail so American laws are out of the question.
Mexican laws are nonsense
that leaves Canadian laws and that is a Check mate I believe

Originally posted by tide88
I am not claiming the government is not dishonest, I am sure they are to some point. I just do not believe they are as sinister as most people think.

You have no grasp of what's going on in American government right now. You can easily attain this knowledge however by doing some reading and taking your time with the information you encounter. It's not "the government" that's sinister or dishonest, it's powerful factions within it. They lie to your face, on the TV and in the newspapers...unfortunately most average citizens don't have a fundamental understanding of what they're being told to begin with...these kinds of people will largely be unaffected by anything that happens in this country...only the intelligent will suffer (and are).

I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT! Thanks for a more upbeat post than I've seen for awhile.

Originally posted by solo1
A ) Army allowed to patrol the streets Check

Wrong.

Originally posted by solo1
B ) marshal law at any time an emergency warrants it check

You can't even spell "martial law," let alone understand what it is.

reply to post by jackinthebox
Well what about the NORTH AMERICAN UNION. This is with Canada, mexico, and the united states. No borders. All new currentcy ( AMERO).

reply to post by solo1



OK, when?
Because nobody else seems to recognize Canada as the slumbering socio-economic survivalist-hero.
When my regional representatives to a National assembly go to Ottawa?

When that happens, I'll concede. Really.

reply to post by tide88


Except for the more recent Exec. Order that G.W. Bush put into effect. If I remember correctly, it affords him the power to susped Congress for something like six months in the event of a national crisis. And we almost had one. I heard on a radio talk show today that some white supremist where caught in a plot to kill Obama.

Could you imagine the riots? The first real shot at a Black President and he gets killed by a skinhead or something. If you think the riots in 68' or Rodney King were bad, the fallout would be unimaginable over this. Not to mention the fact that it would present the perfect situation needed to impliment Martial Law.

So you were nearly proven wrong! (Reguarding the predictions)

[edit on 26-8-2008 by lazy1981]

Who cares? The Congress does what it is told to do now. I am sure they will not do anything in behalf of the people when GWB declares martial law, except support him as they do now.

Explain this then if Bush isnt preparing for Marshall Law:
polidics.com...

reply to post by lazy1981


Okay, economy's collapse, out of the water bunkie.