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Bush Will Not Declare Martial Law, The USA Economy Will Not Completly Collapse

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posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 06:15 AM
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reply to post by pluckynoonez
 


you are talking about this www.washingtonpost.com... I mostly pertains to people in Iraq, however it seem to also pertain to americans who would support the insurgents in Iraq also.. It is not matial law. If anything it is a state of emergency, which is real close to the same thing.




posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 06:25 AM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 

The confederate army surrendered in 1865. That ends the war. A surrender of ones army would end any war. I am orginally from NJ and have lived in FL for 16 years now. I also attended the University of Alabama. I can tell you there is no civil war going on right now.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Lincoln had to keep the country running, and died trying. When the United States became the UNITED STATES, a corporation, it was an attempt to keep the country running...under martial law. Tis like the matrix, everyone thinks there's this real world operation, a fantasy, and it is quite the opposite. We are living in a perverted facsimile of what once was.


Please explain how the US being a coporation(going to work will look into it when I get home, but if it is) is an attempt to keep the country under martial law.(i am curious to see how the two fit together.) As to the statement "we are living in a copy of what once was." How great were the living conditions pre civil war era. Talk about a time when rich white elitists owned everything. You want to go back to the times where rich white men owned slaves. Or how about a time when women had no rights.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by tide88
 


You put up a good fight tide, I like that. Guess we will have to just wait and see what happens. Should be interesting...... if things do get crazy, rock on over to New Zealand it's super safe down here.

I heard Aaron Russo say that womens liberation was spotlighted and bankrolled by the rocafellers and their shady accomplices for two main reasons-
1. To tax the other 50% of the population.
2. To get the children away from their mothers early and into school so they can be 'indoctrinated' with their version of an appropriate education.

Work spend pay taxes work spend pay taxes work spend pay taxes.

Some rich person needs to hire a hardcore 'elite' hit squad to eradicate these disease spreading vermin or the rot will continue. Ron Paul's 15000 strong protesters didn't even dent this pathological machine that has been created. Things might not get really ugly for a while but we should still be concerned for the generations to come.

Peace



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by vehemes terra eternus
 

I agree. Anyway I look at it, even from a very optimists view, things cannot keep going the way they are going. I do believe there will be adjustments and I hope that the government and the people will learn from our past mistakes to make the USA a better place for everyone. Not just Americans, but a better country for the whole world. Look like we are leaning more towards a diplomatic course with the iran situation news.yahoo.com... Hopefully more things like this are to come.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by mattifikation
I find it interesting that the participants in this thread have chosen only to discuss the first prediction made in the original post, but the rest have received little comment for some time now.

If you disagree with that, I suggest that you go get yourself arrested and then, at trial, demand that the judge explain why a flag other than the American Flag hangs in his court room and ask him to take it down.



The fringed flag has no meaning what so ever. Back in 1925 the US Attorney-General relied on the opinion of the predecessor to the US Army's Institute of Heraldry that the fringe was not an addition or alteration of the flag, and therefore not illegal, and
moreover had no symbolic meaning. Currently the Institute of Heraldry and the non-government Flag Research Center both issue fact sheets debunking this militia myth about the fringe on the flag. There apparently has NEVER been a successful challenge to a court's decision or jurisdiction based on
the absence of a correct flag or the presence of an "incorrect" flag in the courtroom. ]"
www.landrights.com...
www.midcoast.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by vehemes terra eternus
 



Will do. I hear it is beautiful there. I have sent a email to university of virginas expert on the civil war and have posed some of these questions to him. If he gets back to me I will post his email.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 



Okay so I figured I would google civil war experts and see if I could contact one of them and get their opinion on the whole matter. The first person that came up on google was gary gallagher from the university of virgina. You can google this too. So I shot him an email this morning that said:
Mr Gallagher,

I am sorry for bothering you. I have a question to ask you. I have become involved in a discussion about the Civil War and martial law that was declared during it. This person I am having this discussion with claims that we have been under martial law from time Lincoln declared it in 1863, and in fact are still under it today, because it was never rescinded back then. I claim differently. He also claims that the Civil War never officially ended, which I also disagree. I would appreciate it if I could get your expert opinion on this matter. I know you are probably busy so I understand if you will not be able to get back to me. Thank you for your time.


Well he responded within a couple of hours. This was his response:

The Civil War was never declared, of course, because it was internal (though really between two nation states in my view). It ended when the Confederate armies and civil government surrendered in April and May 1865. Martial law was declared in specific places for specific periods during the war. In short, your friend is wrong about everything! Best regards, GWG

This is from a Civil War Expert. Here is his resume
www.teach12.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by tide88
 



The confederate army surrendered in 1865. That ends the war. A surrender of ones army would end any war.


No, it's only a ceasfire. The end of military action. It did not legally or politically end the war. The fall of Poland did not end WWII, and a state of war still exists with North Korea, as examples.

From the perspective of the Union, they could not afford to legally end the war because by doing so, they would have recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate government to be negotioated with, and thereby negating any legitimacy for their military action against the South.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by tide88
 


Jolly good show! Star for that post. I'm glad you're taking this seriously. This really is getting meaty.

This particular part of your contact's response interests me...


It ended when the Confederate armies and civil government surrendered in April and May 1865.


Please show me where the Confederate civil government formally surrendered.






[edit on 7/17/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 



If you respond to me and want me to respond to you, please do it all in 1 post unless you reach the character limit - all of these little small posts one after the other get confusing.


Sorry, but I have no choice for the time-being. I am not in a place that is condusive to my normal mode of debate. Of course you are free to break off the discussion at any time.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 



In the section of the constitution I just quoted it does not state that when the President calls congress during an emergency, that quorum is required.


Why wouldn't the quroum be required, as stated in the Constitution? There is no exemption stated.



Action 1: Lincoln orders Congress to meet, using his constitutional authority.


Agreed.



Action 2: Congress meets, as ordered.


A minority of Congress meets, with only the authority to adjourn and to set a new date to reconvene.



Action 3: Congress closes session.


Agreed.



---- And here ends the reign of Congress under executive order.
Action 4: Congress starts next session.


Incorrect. When Congress next met it was still not Constitutionally legitimate. If it were, they would have admitted the properly elected Southern delegations. They did not.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 



Nothing would change if somehow legal scholars came out and proclaimed you right. There would be no material difference in how anything operates today, because everyone is acting as if what you claim happened never occurred.


Bingo.

And that is exactly why what we have today is allowed to continue. Blisfully unaware we have become, and complacent to boot.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


I wish I could email and ask him again however I am kinda of hesitant to do so. I actually am shocked that he actually responded to my email. I think the point that since it was never a declared war that there would be no need to formally surrender. Although this seems pretty like a pretty formal surrender. en.wikipedia.org...
The confederate states of america effectively collapsed when Robert E. Lee and Joseph Johnston surrendered their armies in April 1865. The last meeting of its Cabinet took place in Georgia in May. Confederate President Jefferson Davis was captured by Union troops near Irwinsville, Georgia on May 10, 1865. Nearly all remaining Confederate forces surrendered by the end of June. A decade-long process known as Reconstruction temporarily gave civil rights and the right to vote to the freedmen, expelled ex-Confederate leaders from office, and re-admitted the states to representation in Congress.

I believe this would effectively end the civil war.

Also from wiki :
The surrender of the Army of Northern Virginia by General Lee at Appomattox Court House on April 9, 1865, is generally taken as the end of the Confederate States. President Davis was captured at Irwinville, Georgia, on May 10, and the remaining Confederate armies surrendered by June 1865. The last Confederate flag was hauled down from CSS Shenandoah on November 6, 1865.

Also seeing that the supreme court declared succession of states unconstitutional that would end the CSA. I understand that this argument is a never ending argument. However, the Federal Government declared the War to be officially at an end on August 20, 1865, such a declaration being a legal requirement as an end point for various wartime measures, contracts and regulations.

List of formal surrenders

www.americancivilwar.asn.au...

I am not a civil war expert but the professor from the UVA is. He said the war ended. I understand some people believe that it never ended, like these people www.confederatestatesofamerica.org... They actually photoshop pictures of the confederate flag on fighter jets
I also know you are not one of those from the above mentioned site and understand your point of view. I think all the events that took place after the fighting, all the formal surrenders, that fact that Secession was totally repudiated pretty much dissolves the CSA. That ends the war.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



2. The USA banking system will not collapse


The USA banking system is really not the USA banking system at all. The Federal Reserve Bank is a PRIVATELY OWNED institution.

There is not reason to believe that the US will not face terrible economic turmoil under their direction. The last time it happened, ever single American citizen and all government was handed over as collateral on the national bankruptcy in 1933.

EDIT to add:



3. There will be no Amero, not for at least 10-20 years.


This of course, is intimately tied to whatever plan the international banking elite have for us. There is no way to tell when this will happen. My guess would be with the next administration.






[edit on 7/17/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



5. Nothing will happen on dec 21, 2012. It is not the end of the world it is just another day. No spiritual awakening, or change of any kind. Nothing different from dec 20, 2012.


I didn't really believe this one too much at first, but the more I looked into it, the more concerned I have become.

The Mayan calendar has already made accurate predictions, exact to the day. Their calendar is also more accurate than our own.

It is also am astronomical fact that the Earth will enter into an alignment with the center of the galaxy which happens once every 28,000 years. No one knows what effect this will have, particularly on magnetism and gravity, considering that the latest data shows that there is in fact a black hole present at the center of our galaxy.

The 28,000 year figure is also historically important. This could be the time of Atlantis, and the very beginnings of what has become our own civilization. It is also interesting that the Human Genome Project has shown that somewhere in that general time frame, Human population was reduced to as little as one-hundred individuals.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


I should of made those predictions more clear. I agree that there is some serious turmoil but in my prediction I meant the banking system will not completely collapse. Someone posted a predicition that on SEpt 9 the banking system will completely collapse. We have been in worst situations before and have bounced back and will bounce back again. As for the Fed Reserve being a private bank. From wiki:
The Federal Reserve System is an independent government institution that has private aspects, but is neither a private organization, nor operates for a profit. It derives its authority and public purpose from the Federal Reserve Act passed by Congress in 1913. As an independent institution, the Federal Reserve has the authority to act on its own without prior approval from Congress or the President.[24] The members of its Board of Governors are appointed for long, staggered terms, limiting the influence of day-to-day political considerations.[25] The Federal Reserve’s unique structure also provides internal checks and balances, ensuring that its decisions and operations are not dominated by any one part of the system. It also generates revenue independently without need for Congressional funding. Congressional oversight and statute, which can alter the Fed's responsibilities and control, allows the government to keep the Federal Reserve in check. Since it was designed to be independent whilst also remaining within the government of the United States, it is often said to be "independent within the government."[24]

The 12 Federal Reserve banks provide the financial means to operate the Federal Reserve. Each reserve bank is organized much like a private corporation so that it can provide the necessary revenue to cover operational expenses and implement the demands of the board. Member banks are privately owned banks that must buy a certain amount of stock in the Reserve Bank within its region to be a member of the Federal Reserve System. This stock "may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan" and all member banks receive a 6% annual dividend.[24] These member banks must maintain fractional reserves either as vault cash or on account at its Reserve Bank; member banks earn no interest on either of these. The dividends paid by the Federal Reserve Banks to member banks are considered partial compensation for the lack of interest paid on the required reserves. All profit after expenses is returned to the U.S. Treasury or contributed to the surplus capital of the Federal Reserve Banks (and since shares in ownership of the Federal Reserve Banks are redeemable only at par, the nominal "owners" do not benefit from this surplus capital); the Federal Reserve system contributed over $29 billion to the Treasury in 2006. Also www.publiceye.org...




[edit on 17-7-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 



Something might very well happen on this date. I think it will be uneventful. Many people also claims that the mayan calander ends on this date however that is not true. It just resets at zero. It is just a long count calander that spans for over 5,126 years. Our calander is a 365 day calander. What happens when our calander runs out. It starts over again. However I have to admit the number look ominous. 12/21/12 at 11:11 universal time the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years. here is a good article on the dec 21,2012 end of the mayan calander. www.universetoday.com...
By the way Jack. I would like to thank you for this discussion. I have learned more about the civil war and marshall law then I ever knew before. It has been fun and educational. This is how all post on this board should be. Even if I am wrong at least I am learning more about the history of the USA and the presidential powers that be. I almost feel like I could be a civil war expert at this time.


[edit on 17-7-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 17-7-2008 by tide88]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



I wish I could email and ask him again however I am kinda of hesitant to do so.


Yeah, I don't blame you. We should be able to track down relevant information on our own from the internet here.



...expelled ex-Confederate leaders from office...


Yes, Reconstruction is an inportant time period to look at. It give a clear picture of how much in violation of the Constitution Congress actually was. Not admitting properly elected officials is not Democracy. You can't tell the people that they can't have the representatives that they voted for, jsut because you happen to be of the opposition party.



I am not a civil war expert but the professor from the UVA is. He said the war ended.


It did end, but only as a military engagement.



...that fact that Secession was totally repudiated pretty much dissolves the CSA.


Not really. The Confederacy was perfectly legal when it was formed. Declaring it illegal after the fact is moot. That's like charging a nineteen year old who had been drikning for a year legally, when the drinking age went up to 21.

The Confederacy was a legitimate government that never surrendered. Only it's military forces did. As did the French forces when they were overrun by the Germans. They were defeated miltarily but not politically.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by tide88
 



By the way Jack. I would like to thank you for this discussion. I have learned more about the civil war and marshall law then I ever knew before. It has been fun and educational. This is how all post on this board should be. Even if I am wrong at least I am learning more about the history of the USA and the presidential powers that be.


Indeed. This has turned out to be a great discussion. It has sent me to hit the reference material as well. Right or wrong makes no difference in the quest for truth. If one cannot change their opinion based on new information, then they are truly lost in that quest.




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