Freedom Of Speech, ATS, and Ending The Eternal September, page 4
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 35 times


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 03:07 PM by clay2 baraka
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, hiding behind freedom of speech to cast denigrating aspersions on the recently deceased demonstrates a selfish lack of prudence. It cheapens the lofty ideal of free expression and it's unfortunate for those who would "go there," but informative for the rest of us to witness.


I remember when certain individuals, many of which now are horrified by the remarks made about Tony Snow, stood aside while similar comments were made about Ted Kennedy when it looked like he was going to succomb to his brain tumor.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

To loudly condemn the behavior when it relates to someone you agree with and then look the other way in silence while the same thing occurs to those whom you find objectionable is, at best, morally bankrupt.

For those of you who were so offended by the use of language toward Snow, I look forward toward your future outrage when someone says something similar about someone with a different political ideology.

Perhaps when more people on this forum begin speaking up without bias, we will begin to see some change as to the level of discourse on this site. If you are serious about change, then you need to be the ones who start to effect it.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by clay2 baraka]


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 03:21 PM by Gools
reply to post by clay2 baraka



No No NO!! You don't understand!

When someone like say... Fidel Castro dies it will be acceptable to heap untold condemnation upon him (remember that Arafat thread?) and to wish upon him all the evils of the deepest fiery pits of hell upon him, his family and everything he did and stood for because he was a dirty commie lefty pig. But if somebody who worked for the Bush administration dies or if they're an American then they deserve our respect because they're dead.

Understand now?

/sarcasm
.

[edit on 7/13/2008 by Gools]



reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 03:52 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Originally posted by jsobecky
BH, do you really equate the death of Zarqawi with the Death of Tony Snow?


It doesn't matter what MY particular opinion is... I'm just one person. Why does it matter how many of us agree that Zarqawi was a "worse" person than Snow? It doesn't. Just because many of us agree doesn't mean we should bash those who don't agree. There are those who think Snow was every bit as bad (or worse) than Zarqawi. And they have a right to have and express their opinion, without being attacked for it.

At least I think they should.

Disagreement is NOT attack. But there have been some real attacks going on around here.

Originally posted by intrepid
And here is a major problem imo. Some take their political affiliation so seriously that any discussion against that philosophy is taken as an attack on themselves.


Yes! And on the other side, some want so badly to attack the member, but since they know it violates T&C, they attack the political affiliation (or other group) they assume the member belongs to. And the discussion devolves from there.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Anyone have any constructive ideas about what can be done to actually, like, you know, change things?


1. We, as members, need to address the topic of the thread, not each other. It's really VERY simple. You can debate someone for DAYS without ever calling them an "Obamite" or accusing them of working for the government or saying that they are despicable for having such disrespectful opinions... ALL DAY.

Unfortunately, we, as members, cannot control whether or not other members follow the same rules. Only moderators could do that.

2. As Novus said, the staff needs to clarify (and enforce) what is and is not allowed. If ALL opinions were allowed and NO attacking was allowed, this problem would go completely away. Because when someone expressed an opinion I thought was despicable, I would not be permitted to attack them for it. I could disagree, but not even go close to putting them down for their opinion.

3.
Be the Change You Wish To See


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 04:01 PM by Gools
Now that almost a half hour has passed since the last post and things seems to have calmed down a bit...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlordAnd this, in my opinion, is a core problem with contemporary user-generated commentary online. Too many are selfishly hiding behind "freedom of speech" as a license and not using it as the virtuously insightful tool it's intended to be.


How about using it to make a point?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, hiding behind freedom of speech to cast denigrating aspersions on the recently deceased demonstrates a selfish lack of prudence. It cheapens the lofty ideal of free expression and it's unfortunate for those who would "go there," but informative for the rest of us to witness.

... it defines a self-centered ideal that is divorced from the true intent of free expression.


Originally posted by Gools
It's all very sad really.


You know what else is sad?

Here we are on page 4 of this thread where I have been doing exactly what you alluded should not be done in the OP (cast denigrating aspersions on the recently deceased - granted it was to make a point) and nobody seems to have noticed or called me out on it.

You know why?

Because we love drama, we love the fight and we love to win and no matter the tastelessness of the opinion it will be heard. There is much on ATS that I find disagreeable and I put up with it.

Pissing contests seem to be what online life is made of and the resort to "free speech" arguments is an easy way to ensure that we can keep the fight going and the divid alive for those who use it against us. Many (as evidence in this thread) are way too partisanly blind to realise when they are being played.

Trying to change this is a huge challenge for ATS or anybody else for that matter. Can it be done?

With the approaching political crazy season starting this September and a population feeling the stress of economic woes and political divisiveness being cranked up to new levels?... I have my doubts.
.


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 04:14 PM by jsobecky
reply to post by Gools



Originally posted by Gools
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, hiding behind freedom of speech to cast denigrating aspersions on the recently deceased demonstrates a selfish lack of prudence. It cheapens the lofty ideal of free expression and it's unfortunate for those who would "go there," but informative for the rest of us to witness.

... it defines a self-centered ideal that is divorced from the true intent of free expression.



You know what else is sad?

Here we are on page 4 of this thread where I have been doing exactly what you alluded should not be done in the OP (cast denigrating aspersions on the recently deceased - granted it was to make a point) and nobody seems to have noticed or called me out on it.


WRONG.

You said

Tony Snow was a lying sack of crap for a criminal organization (FACTS) and the world is a better place without him! (also fact)


You called it "fact". I called it an allegation. I asked you to back it up. That's when you violated the T&C by personally attacking me. Since then, you've tried to defend yourself by saying it is your "opinion".

Revisionist posting does not work.


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 04:29 PM by intrepid
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic



IMO it's not so much what you say as how you say it. This crazy political season brings out the worst in some and they've just got to get the dig in.


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 04:31 PM by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by jsobecky



His post is there. Did you accidentally put him on ignore? It's not a mystery. Nothing fishy.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]


reply posted on 13-7-2008 @ 04:37 PM by clay2 baraka
reply to post by jsobecky



This would be my first ignore. . . Very exciting for me!
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