Freedom Of Speech, ATS, and Ending The Eternal September

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posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by JimmyBlonde
Freedom is the void that mankind abhors.


Actually... freedom (in the context of free expression) is the ideal mankind constantly screws up.

Take ATS in microcosm. We relaxed our rules on drug-related topics, slightly broadening the scope of freedom within discussion here. What was the result? An increase in gratuitous, unproductive, and irresponsible replies containing material no civilized person would spout in mixed company. The extra freedom was abused... a small handful of members screwed it up for the entire membership.

As I mentioned in the opening post of this thread, the concept of FREE EXPRESSION is not an automatic right or god-given-mandate... it's a sacred trust that we must respect and protect as it's our responsibility to use it as a device to expand our minds through challenging ideas... not abuse through misanthropic silliness.




posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Actually... freedom (in the context of free expression) is the ideal mankind constantly screws up.

Take ATS in microcosm. We relaxed our rules on drug-related topics, slightly broadening the scope of freedom within discussion here. What was the result? An increase in gratuitous, unproductive, and irresponsible replies containing material no civilized person would spout in mixed company.


Isn't that the basis of freedom, both in action and word, namely the right to "screw up".

You seem to have a definition whereby anyone afforded such freedoms can only enjoy them within boundaries that you personally find acceptable. When they don't, instead of punishing the individual, you punish the whole.

This is classic liberal thinking, and has been variously applied to such disparate social hot topics as firearms ownership and alcohol consumption.

I am still confused by the notion that I should lose my privileges, simply because someone else abuses theirs.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 10:34 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Good call except for one thing. Offend others...

If offending others is a line that shouldn't be crossed then as for me I would like every anti-Christian, Anti-Israel and anti-Gun post removed, they offend me out of hand. And I am sure no matter the topic every one of them on here offends someone.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities, our founders would agree with that, but not the freedom from being offended. Fat girls in spandex in public offends me but I will never see a law passed that violates their expression freedoms because of my offense taken.

I aint trying to tear down your post, I thought it was rather well done, I just have a problem with the word offend and how subjective it is. Most of what I write is offensive to someone, particularly evolutionists, Hamas Supporters and Pro or more Government people. Sometimes to get one to remove their head from a certain orifice it takes offending them, it's like slapping a freaking out person to bring them back to reality...

Sometimes offending is the best tool someone has at making another think, one has to care about a subject, real care not passing curiosity, to really get them offended anyways and it is that real care and offense another may bring out that will eventually make them think about their position, words, or whatever.

One should not go out of their way to offend someone just for the sake of offending, nor should they offend on what the Courts call protected status' but one the other hand just because one offends doesn't make their point invalid.

I like the freedom bound by others Rights stand on most things when it comes to Rights of Individuals and I believe the Founding Fathers would have and did agree with me. Your Rights end at the point where you violate anothers, and as far as I know there is no Right to not be offended.

From what I gleaned from the original post, people got out of hand because Tony Snow died? I find this amazing with the plethora of topics and threads that a Tony Snow thread turned into chaos and attacks.

Thanks for the new ATS ISSUES thread, I look forward to being offended often!



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Retseh
Isn't that the basis of freedom, both in action and word, namely the right to "screw up".

I think you misunderstood the context. Being free to screw up is different from abusing the responsibilities inherent in free expression.



I am still confused by the notion that I should lose my privileges, simply because someone else abuses theirs.

There was nothing you lost other than the temporary relaxation of the rules you agreed to when you joined ATS.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I aint trying to tear down your post, I thought it was rather well done, I just have a problem with the word offend and how subjective it is.

Actually, the fine line is subtle but distinct.

If I were to write a critical essay on attributes of Christianity, it will offend many... but likely will not be offensive.

However, instead, I make blanket statements that attribute terrible things to anyone who is Christian... that is offensive.

If I were to comment on how I believe certain aspects of the cultural evolution of a certain racial segment of the population strayed down the wrong path, it will offend many... but likely will not be offensive is opined in a reasonable and civil way.

But, if I choose to simply apply a sweeping statement of dislike to all persons in that racial segment, that would be offensive.

Offending without being offensive is critical to eye-opening debate. Those arguments that offend people, but are not offensive, are often the catalyst for meaningful discoveries and learning.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Using your logic, its OK to point out the inhumanity and deviousness of methods, and possible psychopathy of mindset inherent in many business and political figures, but it would be offensive to say they all are that way. Fair enough. There is always an exception to a rule.

In so far as your enterprise goes, you take it as your prerogative to define what distinguishes right from wrong, and by what criteria, - with little regard to learned opinion or wider societal values.

Thats pretty much the way it goes with the NWO and TPTB. How does this distinguish you from them?

It doesn't. As is the case with the PTB globally, lots of people see them as saviours, but not everyone. You have lots of “good” moths lapping at your shiny beacon (good words), but not everyone. For some of us, the light is glaring.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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reply to post by wayno
 


This is a sideline, but any top down hierarchical structure in human endeavours always atracts a particular type of individual, which is the psychopathic power freak, the control maniac. These people are a pretty small percentile of the total population, and in small and medium sized businesses it's pretty common to have 'normal' emotional profiles in leadership positions, but the bigger the enterprise, the more contrived the means to access power, the bigger the personnel selection pool the higher the probability of psychopaths landing control positions, because they have the motivation (psychopathy) and the means (lieing and manipulating). For a more in depth explanation check the last two links in my sig.

ATS is a small enterprise, so there is a significant probability that the people running it are not falling into the category of psychopathic liar and manipulator of people, as explained in the previous paragraph. Simple fear of consequence is sufficient to explain the actions taken here, so don't take me as painting them as such, this is not what I am saying.

It is however possible that we are lied to and manipulated, it is standard procedure in the NWO framework, and only the controllers of ATS really know where they stand. We can't from a logical pov discard the possibility they have an agenda, nor can we claim they do, it's a grey area.

It is in this scenario that ATS management have to take great care of their actions, because it's obvious to the awakening masses that was is happening in our society is not just a few people, is not just limited to the villains, what is happening is a cyclical tyranical manifestation of a core problem, which is our species' relation with the psychopathic percentile that tends to control it. We have, among us, a type of human that, out of a physical incapacity to feel the same emotional range, or even sometimes of a misswiring that gives them a positive response to negative actions, tends to corrupt our leadership structures and spread negative memetics and violence throughout our societies.

Those of us that have become 'awake' to this reality know that these individuals network and form a very thin veil of shadows throughout our societies. And they popup everywhere, ATS has no reason to not be targeted, in fact, given the nature of the material here, I would say it's a prime target.

This post is not intended as a personal insult to anyone, I have no concrete acusation against any member of ATS staff and am perfectly willing to accept that this scenario I painted might not apply to this site. It is however the framework of all NWO and Mafia type conspiracies, of all corruption and abuse of power. And, from this time on, every awake person of the world has to factor this risk into their daily lives.

Psychopaths are atracted to hierarchical structures like moths to a flame, and the bigger the structure the higher the probability of them taking hold, because they network and cooperate. To the psychopaths it is we, normal emotionally profiled people of the species, that are the abnormal ones.

The understanding of the social, political and economic consequences of psychopathy or psychocratic structures is of uptmost importance to understanding the world today, which is why I would again ask people to check the last two links in my sig, as it gives some scientific cohesiveness to otherwise airy conspiracy theories, it gives a framework where the actual probability of actual conspiracies becomes more evident.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by SkepticOverlord
 


Food for thought.

Thanks for responding.



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