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Do U.S. workers make too much money?

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posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 05:49 PM
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There's been a lot of talk about out-sourcing lately. I really think it's been going on for years. But, now it is affecting white-collar workers. They are getting a taste of what blue-collar workers have known for years:
A lot of jobs are leaving our shores. Cheap labor and greater profits for corporations. Cheaper products for a greedy, materialistic populace.

I know the cost-of-living is constantly rising. I know unions are always seeking better working conditions for American workers. I know that minimum wage jobs do not equal a good standard of living.

But, I think the American worker must take come of the blame here. Why does a UPS driver need to make $60,000 a year? Why do autoworkers make big wages to work on an assembly line? Why do clerical workers make $35,000 a year. All of these + benefits.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why jobs would leave to automation and othr shores.
We are pricing ourselves out of our jobs!
I personally thing the unions are in on this NWO order thing. They must be part of it. I wonder if they really are for the good of the workers, as they say, or do they have ulterior motives?

Obsviously, there need to be workers here making enough to buy the products and srvices from offshore. But, at some time, I worry that the ecomony will collapse and we will be glad to make $50.00 a week.
Doesn't everything go through a cycle?? We seem to be on the downstroke!





posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 06:06 PM
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I used to think the same, until I remembered that the US has no National Heath Service like the UK. Also, food is more expensive in the US when compared to England (although many of the 'luxury items' are far cheaper in the US).

Also, the Minimum wage is only about $7 or so an hour. Not everyone has Medical Insurance included with their job and of those who don't get it, many just can't afford it.

So no, the average American worker isn't paid too much. The CEO's etc are, however. If those greedy bastards took a small wage cut, they would be able to help increase the minimum wage to something decent.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 06:07 PM
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But, I think the American worker must take come of the blame here. Why does a UPS driver need to make $60,000 a year? Why do autoworkers make big wages to work on an assembly line? Why do clerical workers make $35,000 a year. All of these + benefits.


I'll tell you why a UPS driver needs to make 60k a year. It's all because the standard of living is so incredibly high in this country. It's a known fact that more than half of the population of the world lives on 2$ a day or less. In the US, it's somewhere closer to 45-50$ a day. This is simply way, way too much money for someone on a job that pays only 10$ a day or less (as in 'outsource' nations).

Benefits are included because it simply costs far, far too much for medical care if not for insurance, etc.

And, I also agree, Americans just make too much money, but america just costs that much money to live in: Simple fact of life.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 06:21 PM
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I agree with both of you. It was a constantly upward spiral of costs and wages.
I just think this didn't just happen. We are putting ourselves out of jobs. But, employers and the unions are helping.
Our houses and cars cost too much. We have so many material possesion compared to the who can survive on $2.00 a day.

If we can think that those who rule are running the country, we should also think that what is happening in the job market is happening for a purpose, and that purpose is to ruin our economy and our nation.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 06:40 PM
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american workers do not make TOO much $$!!! the cost of living is much higher..why??...business/corporations keeping prices high and wages down. most families have both parents working...just because some 'illegal allien' can live on 5.75 hour means jack.... .most of the people I know make under 35,000 a year...u do the math.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 07:49 AM
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Well, maybe we don't make enough to get by because the prices of everything else keep rising. When I was a kid, you could get by comfortably in a one-income family.


We seem to be pricing ourselves out of jobs is my point. These rising incomes are making it lucrative for companies to seek cheap labor off shore. This is being done intentionally. Right now "they" need us to buy their products.
But, at some point, enough jobs will leave, and few will be able to afford to live in the manner they have become accustomed to.
In a global economy, we won't live better than most of the world. We won't have to worry about getting a raise, we will be happy to have whatever job we can get.
Unless something changes, I believe this is the track our country is one. Downward!!



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 08:09 AM
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The answer is: No. Americans do not make too much money, only a small percentage of the workforce is overpaid. When you consider how few union jobs are, and what many jobs pay in wages, compare that to the cost of living.........

The most money Ive ever made in the civilian world is 1200 a month. Most of the jobs ive had, ive only made 8-9 bucks an hour, or about 1000 a month. Consider that a cheap apartment around here is about 550-650 a month, plus electric, plus phone, car insurance, gas, food, i was left with pretty muc nothing. If I were to want to say, buy a house, not a big, fancy one, but just a regular simple home, i would have to make at least 2000 dollars a month, with the average mortgage for even a # house about 1000 bucks a month. And thats just for owning a home. As far as cars go, I would not be able to buy a new car, but would have to buy cheap run down ones so id have no payments. Thats living bare bones and owning a home. Medical insurance costs, even through employers, and even with insurance, you have to pay for whatever they wont. To live confortably, with a reasonable new car, food, and have money to save, id have to make 3k a month, with the cost of things being as they are.
Also consider that Americans dont get vacations. if youre lucky enough to work for the same company for 15-20 years, u m might get a month a year, motre than likely, youre lucky if u get a week.

Greed sends jobs to the third world. Sorry, no one can even eat off of 2 dollars an hour, let alone live off it in this country. We cant even support ourselves on minimum wage. If you have a family, you need even more money: since social security will not be there for us, we must have adequate income to stash away into our own retirement funds, while the govornment still taxes us for the ssi well never see. Companies already are cutting peoples salaries like crazy, as well as benefits, but even if they cut out medical, denbtal, pensions, ect, it still is cheaper to go to the third world, thier profit margins go sky high.

So, only a small portion of the population is overpaid: the unmion jobs are almost nonexistant anymore, and people in unions cross picket lines everyday just to keep thier jobs.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:08 AM
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And they make too little because of American Global trade agreements that keep us, for decades upon decades, with a huge and growing trade deficit.
We lose jobs in this country because of unequal barriers to our production that allows these areas to keep near slave wages as their manufacturing cost standard.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:14 AM
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I agree with Bout Time. I'm a Software Analyst and I'm making far too little money. As an employee in the computer industry I would've expected my salary to be at least $45,000. Except I'm only making $30,000. That's rediculous that a UPS worker is making three times as much as me when in fact it should be the other way around. I've always believed that "Computers are the future." That's why I'm in it.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:19 AM
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CNC operator and CAD designer, and I was only bringing home $250 a week. My wife works part time at Subway, averaging 15 hours, making minimum wage.

With the two of us, and two children... according to the Federal Census stuff, we are a below poverty family.

I can't see it. We were doing good, keeping afloat of things. But, geez... we were, total, bringing no more than $18000 to $20000 a year.

I guess it all depends on the area in which you live, cost-of-living. I have friends who drive an hour and a half to work at a grocery store, because they can make $12 an hour.

And here's me... programmer, operator... making $9.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:29 AM
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There was a period of three years in the mid 90's where I couldn't hire a 22 year old right out of college to answer my phones for less than $35,000...and I couldn't keep them more than 6 months at that. My company was also paying blood money rates to IT wanderers to come in and keep the old girl together. We were scammed quite a few times with contracts from "hourly" outsourced staff from a variety of consultants. And our senior support staff was leaving in droves unless they got executive money. I don't know what they make now, but Executive Assistants (formerly known as secretaries) wouldn't consider a job under $50,000. All us "owners" paid ourselves nothing or were putting money into the place, while some rain makers were drawing $300,000 with no risk.

Keep in mind this wasn't NYC, and we weren't a Fortune 500. Just a little medium size 60 employee company that peaked at $10 million billings.

So it's difficult to answer the question for everyone. I've known plenty of people that don't make enough money. But I know plenty of people that made too much money. And I know alot of people now that don't make ANY money (myself included). Now all us former execs are looking for those $35,000 jobs for ourselves that we once gave away like candy to anything perky.

As for blue collar, don't even try to earn a living without a union or becoming a con artist. The new millionaire in the South is known as the "subcontactor"... a fellow that literally DOES NOTHING but make bids and outsource then reap the rewards. I use to do demolition jobs in college for some of these jokers. Mmmm...can still taste the asbestos. That's what $5 an hour got you in the late 80's. Cancer.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:34 AM
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What is the effect of out-sourcing? Let me tell you a little about myself.

I did not graduate from high school, instead I got a GED so I could go to work at 17. I made $6 an hour to start out. I worked hard, very very hard in the computer industry and at the top of my game I made $90,000 a year with stock options and bonuses that got me around $200,000 more a year. Was I overpaid? Not sure, I made the company millions and employed thousands so probably not. I was honest, I hired diverse candidates and never discrimitated against anyone for any reason. I worked hard to get there. Then my job was outsourced with little or no warning to someone who makes half of what I made. Here is the problem. My lifestyle equaled my salary as did the lifestyle of my employees. Now I am un-employable. No one will hire me because I am over qualified and we have lost everything, house, cars, college funds for the kids everything. WE are broke and now living on what I can bring in by selling off our possesions. Did we earn that life? Do we deserve this? No we worked hard and made monely legally but now the IRS is going to jail me becuase I cannot pay the extra taxes I owe since employers do not hold enough out. My family is done, finished. My wife will be on welfare I will be in jail and my kids will live in poverty. But someone in another country will have my job and live very well because of it. Will they do the job as well as me? who knows. My company like many other abandonded me after all the sacrifices made. To make that money and give my family all I could I had to give up quite a bit. No time at home, constant stress (I had a heart attack at the age of 26 and a nervous breakdown a few years later). We had hoped to retire and work for the community, now we are at the mercy of our community for survival. I am not alone, I have met many people who did as I did, bought into the "American Dream" and worked 7 days a week to get ahead and make enough money that we could be comfortable. We did not get paid too much, especially when you add up the hours most people work to get where they are (never less than 6 days a week, never less that 12 hours a day). Now our lives are over, I am going to be punished by the government. My point is to show you how outsourcing is bad, the pay here is not too much (to live in a decent nieghborhood we had a mortgage payment of almost $2000 a month). In one day it was gone. Now becuase of my success I cannot get a $25,000 a year job, I am over qualified.

This is the new American dream, to move to India and get my old job back....



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:43 AM
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Why so much? I'll tell you why. It is because those bastards charge you $1.89 for a head of letuce and $2.19 for a packet of potato rolls. That's why!


If you have ever lived in the US and paid all your own bills you know why.

Jonna's normal monthly bills:
Rent: $745 (one bedroom)
Food: Average $150
Cable: $20
Phone: $20
Electricity: $30
Car gas: $50-70

And that is just the nessesities. I have no health plan or work benifits. Because of all my bills, I can only save about one or two hundred a month and since social security is going the way of the Dodo (under Bush's guidence) that I will probably be screwed in the long run.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:45 AM
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I'm unemployable as well. Very similar story.

I worked my bum off from the ground floor in a very specialized industry up to VP, then entrepreneur/owner followed by a short stint as AE in the top tiers of the industry before the bottom fell out.

I made good money by 26 and was peered by 50 year olds. Now no one wants to hire some guy for half his former salary, or some guy that used to run a company. It's "ooky" as one potential employer said recently that had half my experience and had read trade industry articles about my work while they were still in college.

Sorry to hear about your impending losses. I lost everything already including a home I still owe $100,000 on. Those third mortgages will get you. Sell everything while you can, if you still can. The debt doesn't go away when they take your stuff.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 09:48 AM
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I've been working for UPS for 10 years and the best I've ever made is $35,000 in one year....I can think of one person that I know that made $60,000 and he routinely worked from 7am to 7pm, and he had been with the company almost 30 years, and believe me people, it aint easy work, I walk on average 4-5 miles a day in and out of that truck come rain, sleet, or snow...dont believe everything that you read....UPS drivers DO NOT make $30 an hour



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 10:09 AM
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Jobs are being out-sourced so that corporations can make more profitis. If they hire labor at much cheaper prices in countries where people will work for anything then they stand to gain a ton of extra profit for themselves. The reports will reflect that, and the stock will rise, in turn giving those few elite more and more money. The out-sourcing of jobs will only create more problems in the long run as it makes living in the US even harder as jobs keep leaving.



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by mrmulder
I agree with Bout Time. I'm a Software Analyst and I'm making far too little money. As an employee in the computer industry I would've expected my salary to be at least $45,000. Except I'm only making $30,000. That's rediculous that a UPS worker is making three times as much as me when in fact it should be the other way around. I've always believed that "Computers are the future." That's why I'm in it.


I've been in IT for 13 years now. I worked my way through college (12 hours per semester with 60-70 hour work weeks) for 7 of those 13 years. I've gone to the pinnacle (self-employed consultant) bringing in six figures and now I 'm a director (or PM) bringing in half that. I took this job to stay in the game and lower my price again. In this economy noone is going to pay me $140,000 as an employee.

It could be worse. I could have no job. I could be making even less. The company I'm with knows how to treat its loyal employees.

Your best bet is to establish with a company (a risk nowadays) and become so vital that they can not do without you. It's called expert power (and it sucks as a manager to know that your staff has that over you) but it can keep you employed. A job that pays less right now is better than no job that pays nothing tomorrow.

Yes I do think we started making too much. Look at how easily we in IT could jump employers AND make an additional $10k each jump (if not more)? Our cost of living went up commiserate with the prices people were willing to pay for goods and services. Now the providers of those goods and services are in a catch 22. They realize they should lower their prices in order to recapture some lost demand. However they can not because their clerical staff is used to making $15 per hour.

This is a hard situation and anyone who can solve it has my vote and my campaign fund contribution.

Donny



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by Todeskopf
I've been working for UPS for 10 years and the best I've ever made is $35,000 in one year....I can think of one person that I know that made $60,000 and he routinely worked from 7am to 7pm, and he had been with the company almost 30 years, and believe me people, it aint easy work, I walk on average 4-5 miles a day in and out of that truck come rain, sleet, or snow...dont believe everything that you read....UPS drivers DO NOT make $30 an hour


Correct me if I'm wrong but UPS is also known for its utilization of part-time employees, even union workers. They can skimp on benefits that way. Am I right?



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 10:25 AM
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Not exactly, our part-timers get beneifts equal to, and in some cases better than that of the full-time employees...part-timers get full medical, dental, and vision benefits for nothing(unless you count the union dues), 401k, discount stock purchase plan (aka. stock options), and in some places you can get college tuition reimbursement...there are a few more but I cant think of them right now



posted on Mar, 10 2004 @ 10:36 AM
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Even if the Fed-Ex and UPS does make 60,000 a year, I could justify it. There is so much hazard in delivering packages and the potential for being robbed. It is a not a great job, but someone has to do it. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that anyone in delivery has right to make good cash. I've been delivering pizzas for two and a half years now and have been robbed and beat up once and almost robbed a couple of other times. Luckily, the tips are very much worth while and I make somewhere around $18 bucks an hour. Not every pizza delivery guy makes that, I'm just good.



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