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2012 Debunked

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posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:34 AM
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Ok so if this strictly applies to the Mayans and no one else so then any descendants of the Mayans alive today will then just DROP DEAD come 2012??
I don't understand your "logic". I too am opposed to the idea of December 21st 2012 being a "doomsday" - where the hell is it stated in any scripture that this date is the end of the world? It is simply recorded as "the end of times" - the end of an era, the BEGINNING of a new age. With an end always comes a new beginning.
I understand that this is probably what you're trying to say, but i don't think it applies solely to one civilisation that ultimately were defeated by the Spanish a good 400-500 years ago... With the knowledge the Mayans showed they were obviously aware of a world other than their own... They certainly weren't small minded.

Hmmm although, i don't doubt that humanity has much tragedy and turmoil and damn hard times ahead but we can work through them as one race of people. Mad things are happening on earth these days, it's probably unlikely that everything's just gonna go BOOM in a millionth of a second one day, but it definitely is possible, when you think about it.

I also doubt your "debunking" because 2012 appears in Hindu prophesy as well. The two cultures had absolutely no contact and i just personally see more to it than "just the end of a civilisation", sorry.
Here is a cool thread on this very discussion: Tibetan Monks See Aliens Saving Earth From Humans In 2012!

Who even gives if 2012 is important or not anymore - we are in a time of deep change, as a species we are now touching this change conciously for the first time. In this moment and this hour of human evolution there is a growing sensation to find the proper vocabulary and means of addressing this longing to transcend religiosity and spirituality. This is happening NOW, my friend. Whether 2012 holds any significance towards this or not, if you cannot recognise this present realisation then I'm sorry to point out that you are living under a mammoth rock.


You haven't even begun to debunk the significance of the times ahead of us- 2012 and the Mayan calendar alike.

[edit on 14/7/08 by pretty_vacant]




posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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It is a FACT, scientifically proven, that the Earth is coming to it's closest pass to the center of the galaxy and there will be an alignment with the center of the girth of the galaxy's center, the Sun and our planet.


Please provide evidence of this "fact".



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by pretty_vacant
Ok so if this strictly applies to the Mayans and no one else so then any descendants of the Mayans alive today will then just DROP DEAD come 2012??


What I mean is that the Mayans created that Calender for themselves, when they made it they didn’t think about the outside world – it was used just for their society. When archaeologists look at the Calender they think “OMG 2012, this must mean the whole world will be affected by this date” no, just a date set by Mayans for Mayans.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


But 2012 appears in Hindu scirpture as well.
See my edited original post.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:55 AM
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Originally posted by Mogget

It is a FACT, scientifically proven, that the Earth is coming to it's closest pass to the center of the galaxy and there will be an alignment with the center of the girth of the galaxy's center, the Sun and our planet.


Please provide evidence of this "fact".


Just Google it yourself for God sake,, jeez it isn't like this tid bit of information doesn't already have a virtual plethora of threads and posts already here on ATS.

Issac Newton? Surely you have heard of him? Creator of Calculus and another one who tried to narrow down this date. He found an error in the way most people are using the Mayan calendar transposing the dates to our current messed up calendar where Julius Caesar added another day to July so that meant two months with 31 days rather than 30

Newton's calc was 2060 if memory serves.

- Con



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:01 AM
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Originally posted by andre18

Originally posted by pretty_vacant
Ok so if this strictly applies to the Mayans and no one else so then any descendants of the Mayans alive today will then just DROP DEAD come 2012??


What I mean is that the Mayans created that Calender for themselves, when they made it they didn’t think about the outside world – it was used just for their society. When archaeologists look at the Calender they think “OMG 2012, this must mean the whole world will be affected by this date” no, just a date set by Mayans for Mayans.



No Andre their is much more to this date than you obviously are aware of in many ancient texts in many religions where these religous tribes were thousands of miles from each other but all refer to this date also.

It is just that their is no archaeological evidence to prove such information of a society, privy to so advanced a knowledge of cosmology among many other things.

- Con



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:01 AM
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reply to post by pretty_vacant
 


Firstly that monk prediction is from rense….complete and utter BS website. Secondly it’s probably just a coincidence or 3rdly the method the Mayans used to get their calendar to finish on 2012 could just be the same method used by those who created the Hindu bible.

Who knows….



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by pretty_vacant
 


Firstly that monk prediction is from rense….complete and utter BS website. Secondly it’s probably just a coincidence or 3rdly the method the Mayans used to get their calendar to finish on 2012 could just be the same method used by those who created the Hindu bible.

Who knows….


Andre their was a PBS television special on this I can't remember if it was Nova or wired science but you can go to PBS's website and get caught up on this as they did a pretty good job with it

- Con



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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Wow. bringing on "the end" simply because some people said so...

I agree with the OP here, and i really think this is all bunk, fearmongering at the highest level and not only do some swallow it hook, line, and sinker, but by beleiving this, we are conjuring it up. You are giving power to an idea and that power and that idea is growing huge, and if it comes to pass, WE BROUGHT IT ON OURSELVES.

Perhaps thats why Mayans disappeared, eh???



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:53 AM
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It is not fear-mongering except for those who, as I worded in a previous post, carry out a one-sided-research examination of the news, rumors, facts, evidence and history regarding the Mayan relation to 2012.

The ones who have done a complete research of all the information that is available and has been shared will most likely be aware that there is a strange, fragile dark-veil of destruction theories surrounding 2012 which happen to come hand-in-hand with predictions concerning times as close as a few days into the future about terrible events. These predictions turn out to be false. Yes, there have been predictions that have come true about cataclysmic events, but it turns out these have NO connection (in the context of other same-author related predictions) to 2012.

There is a reality that people keep forgetting. The Universe, which we ARE, is not a written book. The only way it is a written book is when people write history. The future is uncertain and even the past has a way of interacting with our present (hence our present being the future of our past) in order to change things and it works both ways. It's called... Quantum Physics... Positive thought has been proven to have a much larger ripple-effect on the Universe than negative thought, this is due to the permeation of a powerful, ruling universal constant known as love, or God, which is an omnipresent, omnipotent energy or entity.

No, I'm not a free-mason, or a Scientologist nor belong to any society which holds certain things as being MUSTS. I do share a lot of views with them (not with scientology
) but most importantly is that I've spent the last 12 years of my life DEEPLY submerged in research, DAY AFTER DAY, with an open mind ready to take in any information, on the subject of the paranormal, the sciences and math and the study of the cosmos and our own Planet, of course.


The amount of people practicing home meditation, sharing positive messages, believing in the power of health and love and family creates a very powerful and immediate change to the planet which is hardly rivaled by negativity.


To the guy who asked about the evidence regarding the fact about the Earth's approach to a galactic-alignment. Do some research, please. I don't think it's worth my time to show you evidence since you'll probably become more quickly and personally informed by using the Google.com search engine.


To the OP, there is no logic in simply assuming that a Mexican archaeologist will be better informed than (in use of the brain's random result engine) a.... British one... None, whatsoever. I am, for example, more eloquent with the English language than most native English speakers... -Hum-...

[edit on 14-7-2008 by sllapur]

[edit on 14-7-2008 by sllapur]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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Is there a reason I shouldn’t believe what the guide said compared to what some other professional says about 2012? I don’t see what the big uproar is about the credibility of the guide – when you go on a tour of a museum you assume the guide knows what they’re talking about because it’s their job to know and inform you. The guide knows what he’s talking about because it’s his job to know.

Because 2012 is such a big conspiracy, why doesn’t Springer go to Mexico and do what I did and actually find out what’s really going on with 2012. Go to the core of 2012 – it should make perfect sense to.

What’s great about this conspiracy is anyone can find out the truth about all of this, just go to Mexico yourself and ask…..



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


There are no such thing as coincidences - and one of this proportion, i'd like for someone to calculate the chances.
Look i'm not going to argue about authenticity of sources here but i will defend the accuracy that scientific remote viewing posseses. I know there's more to this whole 2012 subject than what can be justified in just simple sentence. You simply cannot say that "this is all 2012 means" and expect that to be the final answer on the matter. You've got to be kidding me. It's like you haven't delved at all into the deep meaning and history behind it all. I dunno..
I don't go looking for mystery in everything or a conspiracy to be the truth behind everything - that's just crazy. It all comes back to what i said about this growing sensation that ordinary people everywhere are longing to understand on a grander scale than ever before.
Apart from all the prophesy about this particular date and so on, 2012/2060/20??/30?? it DOESN'T MATTER because what's so special about this time is it IS time for us to conciously begin exploring authentic power from a multisensory perception. But i cannot begin to explain these changes or why they are happening with my own words and it would be off-topic to go on about here in this thread.

Simply put, IMHO, people should shift their perception of 2012 as being a purely physical event based on some ancient calendar or scripture that was risen from mathematical equations, sun and moon cycles and methods such as remote viewing.. look inside and ask questions and there you will find the answers.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by PApro
 


check this...


The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar forms the basis for a New Age belief, first forecast by José Argüelles, that a cataclysm will take place on or about 21 December 2012, a forecast that mainstream Mayanist scholars consider a misinterpretation.

en.wikipedia.org...


I don't think there will be a catyclysm either....but here's my predictions:

Some things will change slowly
Some things will change quickly
Some people will die
Some people will live

These predictions are based solely on my experience....I have been alive since 1949....seen a lot of changes - had the first TV in our neighborhood....remember where I was when JFK was shot, was sitting in a bar in DC watching the first moon landing on the telly....performed live on stage at Walter Reed hospital during the vietnam war (that gig broke my heart - never seen so many boys without arms and legs before or since)....
2012?....things always change.....that never changes....
Keep your spirit clean, your eyes open and go with the flow....works every time...



[edit on 14-7-2008 by realshanti]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:33 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 




The reason 2012 is so heatedly debated is because no one really asks the people that live their and so it becomes tangled up in conspiracies.


I bet if you ask many Americans what happened to America on 911 they would respond accordingly "19 Arab highjackers rammed 3 Jets into various structures, bypassing the most advanced military detection system on the planet because those damn radical barborous towel heads hate our freedoms and hate Israel." (which is the true conspiracy "theory") The 911 inside job is a true conspiracy and is no longer theory.

See how that works?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:34 AM
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Originally posted by realshanti

Originally posted by andre18
reply to post by PApro
 



I don't think there will be a catyclysm either....but here's my predictions:

Some things will change slowly
Some things will change quickly
Some people will die
Some people will live

2012?....things always change.....that never changes....





Agree with you


[edit on 14/7/08 by pretty_vacant]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:43 AM
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reply to post by realshanti
 


Just for my own interest I looked up José Argüelles (seek and you will find)
en.wikipedia.org...


He gained notoriety for his....mystical book about the Maya calendar, The Mayan Factor: Path Beyond Technology.

Although Argüelles states that his tools and calendar are clearly not a Mayan calendar, much criticism of it focuses on the fact that his works remain completely unsupported by any professional Mayanist scholar[citation needed]. Amongst many criticisms leveled at it, it is pointed out that the interpretation merely co-opts an ancient tradition by recasting it in New Age terms, unknown, unused and undocumented among the Maya. Many of Dreamspell's influences come from non-Mayan sources, such as the I Ching and pop psychology[citation needed]. What's more, Argüelles' calendar is based on a different day-count than the traditional Mayan calendar. As mathematician Michael Finley notes:

"Since the 365 day Maya haab makes no provision for leap years, its starting date in the Gregorian Calendar advances by one day every four years. The beginning of Arguelles' year is fixed to July 26. Thus his count of days departs from the haab as it was known to Maya scribes before the Spanish conquest. Arguelles claims that the Thirteen Moon Calendar is synchronized with the calendar round. Clearly, it is not."[1]

His calendar is also not correctly synchronized with that observed by the Maya. For example, in the traditional count January 1, 2005 is 5 Muluk, while in the Dreamspell it is 2 Etznab.


So the entire basis of 2012 is on this guy who even admits "that his tools and calendar are clearly not a Mayan calendar" If i had not debunked 2012 before - I think this is close enough



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


I hit you with the same tone and arrogance you hit him with. When you apologize to him I shall apologize to you and not until. Two wrongs never make a right but somebody has to point out the wrongs. Your post was designed to make him look and feel dumb yet you get mad when somebody hits you back with the same thing.

You want to try to sound Superior by making fools of others that's fine with me but quite crying when you get it back.

Ive apologized many times on ATS to many people and will be happy to do so to you when you make it right first. you were the one who threw the gauntlet.

Your right Ime not some supper brain (and neither are you). I got average grades In high school, never went to college. Joined the military instead and learned how to effectively and efficiently end peoples lives.

I don't come to ATS to prove my brains. I come here to stretch my brains, and spend most of my time in the Survival technique forums. Honestly I don't often venture out mainly because there are two many people who are to full of what they think they know and it makes it irritating.

The super brains on here squeal when you give the same treatment back to them. Look at your own reply to me as an example. Was my post aimed at you right?

No it was not but somebody has to stand up and say enough is enough. I have always been that guy. I see a wrong and try to right it. My methods are usually abrasive to say the least, but so was yours.

Had your post to him been worded better or at least not so condescending I would never have involved myself. You have to expect to get the same treatment back that you give. Or has that little fact escaped your Superior knowledge. In the pursuit of knowledge you yourself seem to have forgotten that other people are on this dying rock we call earth.

One misspelling wow good day I Usually have more. Spell check doesn't catch every thing.

So in closing let us not pollute this thread any more with our childishness. Take it up with me on U2U if you must. You want an apology you know what is expected to get one. After it is done I will return the favor.
i will even go one step further and start a thread publicly apologizing. Probably on BTS don't wanna thumb my nose at the rules too much.

The balls in your court now. Now what are you going to do with it?



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by angryamerican


I hit you with the same tone and arrogance you hit him with. When you apologize to him I shall apologize to you and not until. Two wrongs never make a right but somebody has to point out the wrongs. Your post was designed to make him look and feel dumb yet you get mad when somebody hits you back with the same thing.


Huge difference smart guy,

1) I wasn't even talking to you.

2) I cast no aspersions to andre but the way he debunked 2012

3) I wasn't mean to him and YOU are not him so don't speak on behalf of him which means you got no right to judge in the first place.

4) You put words in my mouth misrepresenting a belief I never subscribed to and where you placed the entire weight of your argument and justification to start talkin smack to me.

5) Your excuses to deny me an appropriate apology are moot, see 1- 4 if you don't understand why.

This is the last time I wll say this and only because you got it wrong again! I really get tired of having to explain things to people who willfully desire to remain ignorant just to avoid having to admit they were wrong. In this case you, you don't want to man up and apologise? I understand that too. It probably challenges your masculinity, so you had to throw in that plug about how expeditiously you ended peoples lives in the military.

I am however, undaunted, and unimpressed to say the least.

I criticized the post, NOT ANDRE and if you could take yourself out of shoes you don't even belong, Maybe you could wrap your mind around that but I am begining to doubt you have the mental skills it would take to make that kind of nexus into real time and reality. If you don't like the tone in my post (whatever the hell that is) TOO BAD! I don't care!

You Got Personal and I have every RIGHT for my "tone" towards YOU.



You want to try to sound Superior by making fools of others that's fine with me but quite crying when you get it back.


You don't have the capacity for one thing and secondly I don't even have to try to make a fool out of you while you are doing such a splendid bang up job of doing that to yourself and as embarrassed as I am for you,, I must remind you,, YOU BRING IT ON YOURSELF.


Ive apologized many times on ATS to many people and will be happy to do so to you when you make it right first. you were the one who threw the gauntlet.


Oh I see,, now I should also include people who have nothing to DO, with any dialogue I am in personally but include others who may have had their witto feewings hurt eh ? GET REAL !

When was the last time you apologised to anyone because someone else, someone you weren't even talking to, said you should because THEY didn't like or understand what you said? When? and if so Why? Why would you when they didn't get it right in the first place?

See that is what I am talking about.

Even if what you said is true and I said something directly insulting to andre, What the hell business is it of yours? You his mommy? Are you the social conscience of ATS? Hell guy, you don't even know what I was talking about and you have proven my point again on that score.


Your right Ime not some supper brain (and neither are you). I got average grades In high school, never went to college. Joined the military instead and learned how to effectively and efficiently end peoples lives.


I am a 6 year veteran myself tuff guy so as far as your innuendos about efficient killing machines,, just bring it or shut up. I never said I was some super brain,, I am saying something isn't working right with yours because you simply cannot understand these three simple words that go

READ * MY * POST!

Got it yet?



The super brains on here squeal when you give the same treatment back to them. Look at your own reply to me as an example. Was my post aimed at you right?


I see you, still don't get it do you. YES YOUR POST WAS


All that sounds just as stupid as what you said to him. Why on earth would you be blatantly arrogant. There are easier ways to get your point across then being mean.


Your entire post to me is predicated on the misunderstanding that I have some dooms day belief in 2012 which I do NOT. READ YOUR POST ! Then after you make some sarcastic assumption of what YOU think I believeed about 2012, YOU INSULT THAT TOO! As if I had said it when YOU assumed I did. The thing is, the method of debunking 2012 the way andre thinks it is proven IS LAME! There is no other way to say it! That doesn't mean andre is lame but that is what you would have read in that because you are a mind reader who is the real know it all now smart guy.

I hate to break it to ya but you don't know a damn thing and until you read all the posts without adding your own ideas as to what the authors are "really saying" and to whom, you will continue as a fool.

Their isn't one damn thing you got right pal NOT ONE! Since you can't even remember what YOU said, much less what I said in my post, it stands to reason why you are reading things into this which aren't there.


You know what bothered you about my post to andre?

It is that YOU share the same disbelief in the 2012 idea as he does but when you read my post it botherd you because the fact is I WAS RIGHT.
The part you didn't get, was that I too share the same opinion HE does but know their are more scientific, more compelling methods of argument to substantiate it than he put forth and I am right about that too and YOU KNOW IT.

Condescending? Did the post tell you that or did andre? Again, I cast NO aspersions to andre personally and what ever I say to you, YOU got comin. You don't think I actually expected the apology do you? HA HA Not likely and not from you. The only reason YOU seem to keep bringing up this alleged view I have of myself being superior is, YOU obviously, see YOURSELF, as INFERIOR.

I don't think I can make anyone feel that way,

WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT!

Got it now?

- Con















[edit on 14-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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I personally think that the mayan calender ends in 2012 because the guy who was writing the calender and calculating the dates etc had been busy doing that for a long time and then one day went. gee, you know I've written the calender out for at least 700 years. I think I'll take a break and somebody else can pivk up where I left off when it gets closer to 2012 and they need to extend the calender. I'm going on vacation. Only thing is the mayans wiped themselves out through crappy farming practices and from being one of the least unified cultures in history, and nobody got the chance to continue on with the calender.

Also, 2012 has nothing to do with the age of aquarius. that happens in 2100.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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the real date of the end of the long count calender is july 7 2012 not december like everyone thinks





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