Ask a Mason

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Masons (white) do not recognize their African-American counterparts. They consider Prince Hall Freemasonry as "clandestine", and "illegal". They claim to be such benevolent and charitable fellows, but yet, as many whites have and still do, they refuse to recognize all man-kind on an equal footing. There is certainly nothing "square", or "level" about that.

I will be sure to let my Prince hall/ African-American brothers know that they are considered clandestine and illegal when I see them at a masonic function.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by lost in the midwest]

reply to post by JoshNorton


From: Wikipedia

In ancient buildings, the foundation stone was placed at the north-east corner of the structure. This was thought to be an auspicious position.

Often, the ceremony involved the placing of offerings of grain, wine and oil on or under the stone. These were symbolic of the produce and the people of the land and the means of their subsistence. This in turn derived from the practice in still more ancient times of making an animal or human[citation needed] sacrifice that was laid in the foundations.

Frazer (2006: p.106-107) in The Golden Bough charts the various propitiary sacrifices and effigy substitution such as the shadow, states that:

Nowhere, perhaps, does the equivalence of the shadow to the life or soul come out more clearly than in some customs practised to this day in South-eastern Europe. In modern Greece, when the foundation of a new building is being laid, it is the custom to kill a cock, a ram, or a lamb, and to let its blood flow on the foundation-stone, under which the animal is afterwards buried. The object of the sacrifice is to give strength and stability to the building. But sometimes, instead of killing an animal, the builder entices a man to the foundation-stone, secretly measures his body, or a part of it, or his shadow, and buries the measure under the foundation-stone; or he lays the foundation-stone upon the man's shadow. It is believed that the man will die within the year. The Roumanians of Transylvania think that he whose shadow is thus immured will die within forty days; so persons passing by a building which is in course of erection may hear a warning cry, Beware lest they take thy shadow! Not long ago there were still shadow-traders whose business it was to provide architects with the shadows necessary for securing their walls. In these cases the measure of the shadow is looked on as equivalent to the shadow itself, and to bury it is to bury the life or soul of the man, who, deprived of it, must die. Thus the custom is a substitute for the old practice of immuring a living person in the walls, or crushing him under the foundation-stone of a new building, in order to give strength and durability to the structure, or more definitely in order that the angry ghost may haunt the place and guard it against the intrusion of enemies.[2]

Sorry I should have provided a Reference. Thanks for answering my questions. I didn't think you had a database, but you seem to know of other famous masons, so i figured maybe you knew.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Thank you for the enlightenment. No, at least within the tradition of my Grand Lodge, there is no shadow burial or symbolic animal sacrifice, but grain, wine and oil ARE significant to Masons. While they're not part of the symbolic placement of the initiate in the first degree, I believe they may be used in Masonic cornerstone ceremonies for actual construction. (In times past, Masons were asked to be present at the dedication of new buildings, and grain, wine and oil were sometimes part of the ritual performed.)

Thanks again for the information.

Firstly in response to Alightindarkness's post...
Your logic, sir, is desperately flawed. Anyone with an iota of ability in English comprehension can see that you are merely trying to deceive the readership as to the contents of my posts.

You worship or rather "follow" or "lead by" A light.

I serve THE light.

Let us agree to be on different ends of the sliding scale.

I should like to add the following, so that persons seeking illumination may make an informed choice:

While both processes have benefits, perhaps you might consider that the former has inherent limitations. Namely the fact that your "illumination" comes via lower level 4th density Service To Self entities (STS). These entities feed off emotional and spiritual energy, namely in the negative forms. Hate , Fear and so on. I believe this is why mentioning Lord Jesus Christ is perhaps frowned upon. Lord Jesus Christ represents purity of heart and unconditional love. I am not stating that I am a Christian, before Christians get excited. I am merely stating that unconditional love is most distasteful to these STS beings. They feel doom and gloom when they see someone truly loving and happy. It is the opposite side of the coin per se. It makes up the dark part of creation, that affords mankind free will.

As regards the previous anonymous post by the current Worshipful Master? If I have understood his implication correctly. Sir, your doubts may well have some basis. It is a view that what you see hear and most importantly THINK changes your state of being, and in a not insignificant way, your DNA. It is possible to effect, through rituals et al , a state of awareness that garners the attention of these extra dimensional entities. Even if your intentions are pure, you may be sure, if you "wake up" you will immediately come to their attension, however purity of heart and awareness, including knowledge will prevent you coming to harm. The sad thing is that the offspring of persons who have changed their awareness and subsequently effected small changes in their DNA are also immediately brought to the attention of the lower level STS beings. This , is the basis of some of the over-excited Christians calling "inherited curse!". It is slightly more complex than that.

Increased awareness is akin to sticking your metaphysical head through the veil between the dimensions and waving. Best you make sure who it is you are actually waving at. Lest they decide to do more than wave back.
And by dint of your children's inherited DNA, as soon as they are born, these entities know about it. And quite often, get to work on them.

If your child appears to be inhibited in some way, or shy, or quiet and not wishing to associate too much with other children, this "can" be a sign that they are being affected. In short, if you are a Freemason the chances are that you have been abducted numerous times by outside forces, either astrally or physically.

I expect the wild and irrational debunking of what I have written but I merely wished to clarify what it was that I was hinting at in my previous post regarding my Grandfather's sudden death. There are many cases of Masons developing bowel and throat problems, I believe this has something to do with your associated rituals. Correct me if you have alternative rationale, but please don't feign intelligence by misrepresenting my posts for your own ends.

Lastly, an enlightened person is observable by their ability to control their emotions, I thought this is what the aim of Freemasonry was? Is it not the view that "All is mind"? Therefore the mastery of the mind and brain states relates to mastery of the gross physical without (What exists outside of you). As above , so below. Perhaps you would be so kind as to clarify what the personal goals of Freemasonry are.

Thank you all for your kind indulgence, I look forward to your intelligent and well informed replies.

Regards.

Originally posted by TrueLight
While both processes have benefits, perhaps you might consider that the former has inherent limitations. Namely the fact that your "illumination" comes via lower level 4th density Service To Self entities (STS). These entities feed off emotional and spiritual energy, namely in the negative forms. Hate , Fear and so on. I believe this is why mentioning Lord Jesus Christ is perhaps frowned upon. Lord Jesus Christ represents purity of heart and unconditional love. I am not stating that I am a Christian, before Christians get excited. I am merely stating that unconditional love is most distasteful to these STS beings. They feel doom and gloom when they see someone truly loving and happy. It is the opposite side of the coin per se. It makes up the dark part of creation, that affords mankind free will.

But if 2/3 of the members of my lodge are Jewish and Muslim, wouldn't praying in Jesus's name be hateful to their beliefs? True love is accepting men of all religion as equals and brothers and not letting their differences, which have lead to war and countless deaths throughout history, darken our time together.

I also resent your belief that Masons are Service to Self, when it is clear from the earliest things a Mason is taught that Service to Others should be done at all times. Charity is among the first lessons taught to an Entered Apprentice Mason during his initiation. By the time he reaches Master Mason he has promised to fly to the aid of others if within his power to help.

I do not see a correlation with your accusation that Masonry is inherently selfish.

Originally posted by TrueLight
...I thought this is what the aim of Freemasonry was? Is it not the view that "All is mind"?

The aim of Freemasonry is to practice Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth in all aspects of our lives and to act upon the Square and keep our passions within due bounds. Fairly straight-forward and simple and I feel we have no need to embellish these principles with further ceremony or meaning.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

JoshNorton and AugustusMasonicus...

Thank you for your views, it is appreciated. I apologise if it seemed to you that I was claiming that all Masons are selfish or self-centered, I know this to not be the case. I am aware that a sizable amount are joining with the most noble of intentions. After all, we are all pure spirit souls, we all have the divine spark of God within us.

As for praying in Jesus' name, I didn't mention such. I understand your point however. A muslim believes not only in the immaculate conception but also in the second coming of Lord Jesus. A Hindu would also have no issue as they regard Lord Jesus as an incarnation of God. I do however understand that possibly a Jew would find mention of Jesus distasteful. I also understand that lower 4th density STS beings also find mentioning Lord Jesus distasteful, to the point of causing them actual pain. This is not a slant on Judaism either, and I appreciate, at least some of Freemasonry is based on Jewish mysticism (Qaballah etc). Correct me if this is incorrect, I welcome the benefit of your knowledge.

I believe the point I was making is that, while you yourself appear to be an honourable man, perhaps there are unseen masters behind your organisation. I don't blame you for it, if true. I am merely making an observation. Again, this is not a personal attack on individual Masons rather than, perhaps, an inquiry as to the purity of the energy forces behind your organization

Like I said before, I see all paths as valid. And I genuinely thank you for taking the time to explain your points of view.

Regards

reply to post by TrueLight


Applebiter? Is that you?

Here we go again.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


I appreciate your post and I am definitely going to take a look at this book.

The post also sort of re-iterates another thing about masonry. Masons are never told to accept something blindly at face value. In fact I think I have become more of a skeptic about many things since joining masonry.

My belief is that if an organization had an agenda they would try to prevent you from learning about the agenda.

When I was a child, for example, we went to a Southern Baptist church. There was a lot of talk about fire, brimstone, satan and rock music. The church did not want us to explore other ideas or read other philosophies for fear of eternal damnation.

I have read many books that are very critical of masonry, as have many of our brothers. Like many other things in the lodge nobody forces you to believe something you don't want to.

I think it's important to bring up another point. Just because you join a masonic lodge does not mean it is the dominating factor in your life. For me, it's something I do a couple of times a month on a Tuesday evening with the occasional cookout or parade.

One thing that it has changed in my personal life is that it has made me a little more conscious of my behavior. I try to be more helpful and forgiving toward others and I try to see if there are places or people I can help out if they need it.

Personally, I think we need to take a hard look at the Lions Club. I mean after all lions ate christians, and what are they doing with all those used eyeglasses anyway? I think they are building a giant lion robot with a frickin mega-laser strapped to its head. (kidding)

As dumb as that sounds you have to admit it is similar to some of the things that masonry is accused of.

I have purchased and downloaded 'Masonry - The Truth'.

When I finish reading it I will be happy to give a book report and my opinion on what the author claims.

EDIT:

Okay, three minutes in and it's already starting to get goofy:

Ironically, the word fear is close to the word four, and the number
four is a number that masons are obsessed with. One theory is
that the 'four' represents the four cardinal directions, but it is also
possible or likely that it represents a fourth dimension, and this
can be used with the right tools (such as a fear based news
programme) to control the general populace through fear. Is that
what is at the core of masonry? A desire to control and dominate
everything through fear? These are questions we will be
investigating and asking throughout this book.

[edit on 7/15/08 by emsed1]

EDIT:

Okay, so now I am ten minutes into this 'tome of tripe':

Take the following scenario. A mason is accused of child
rape and molestation, and the case is brought through a masonic
police officer, who blocks and drags out the investigation for as
long as possible, and then before a masonic judge, who will hear
no wrong against his fellow mason. Based on this and many other
actual scenarios, masonry is incompatible with the civil, moral,
religious, legal or ethical duties of any person, whether they be
members of the police, the cps, the judiciary or any other
profession.

So far the author claims we are child molesters, satan worshippers, that we control countries that keep African nations hungry, that we don't admit black people, that we killed JFK because he wanted to end the Vietnam War and the masons love war.

The author also admits that he is not a mason, but saw an initiation on video and therefore is an expert.

[edit on 7/15/08 by emsed1]

Originally posted by emsed1
I have purchased and downloaded 'Masonry - The Truth'.

When I finish reading it I will be happy to give a book report and my opinion on what the author claims.

EDIT:

Okay, three minutes in and it's already starting to get goofy:

Yeah, I smelled HOAX with that particular Anonymous post. At least you're only out a dollar.

What is The Order of The Palm?
I'm truly interested, not to insult.

More enlightenment:

Masons sometimes make the pathetic claim that they have
the right to a private life, and can do whatever they want in their
private gatherings. Do murderers, rapists, paedophiles and
terrorists also have a right to a private life? Criminal activity is
not protected by Human rights legislation. Masons have no right
to a private life when they subvert the judiciary, the police and
politics, for their own greed, killing millions in mason inspired
wars that are nothing less than mass blood sacrifices. Note, you
never see these 'illustrious' masons, such as Bush or the generals
on the front line. They are the ultimate cowards, and wouldn't be
seen near an actual conflict, where their lives may be on the line.
They send others to do their killing and dirty work for them.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I am actually beginning to think the anonymous poster is actually the author. It should have been a tip-off that he claimed to be the highest officer of his lodge, but didn't know the title of that officer.

[edit on 7/15/08 by emsed1]


Now I am halfway through the book. More claims that masonry is a terrorist organization and the lodges are 'cells'. He says masons are sexually perverse, fascists, nazis, scientologists, serial killers, Mormons, we worship the antichrist, the kkk, we burn children as offerings, that we use a large rubber penis in our ceremonies, we exclude black people and disabled people, degrees are like scenes from xxx horror films, we are rosicrucians, pirates, bank robbers, that we used Sarah Ferguson as a 'brood mare', that we control the banking industry by using 'overdraft fees', we are like the SS foot soldiers of Hitler's day, that we cause knives and guns on the streets, single parents, gang culture, binge drinking, that there should be an online mason registry like they do for sex offenders, and other things like...

Masonry in our considered opinion makes the world a much worse place,
and we feel that many wars, murders and rapes would not have
taken place in our world had it not been for masonry.

and finally, on page 110, the author sums up the point of the book...

We mentioned that the United Grand Lodge was formed in 1717,
and described the similarity between an airport security check
after 9/11, and a masonic initiation. We have also described the
obsession that masons have with the science of numbers.
Consider this. The number of the first flight to hit the twin
towers was '11' and the number of the flight that hit the Pentagon
was '77'. Overlap the two numbers and you get 1717.

The author certainly makes some compelling points. In fact, I don't think I can refute them.

Thank you so much Mr. Anonymous Highest Officer of My Lodge.

[edit on 7/15/08 by emsed1]

Originally posted by Clearskies
What is The Order of The Palm?
I'm truly interested, not to insult.

Never heard of it. Google gives me 55 hits, most of which seem to refer to a novel. There's one link with SCA heraldry, and a few that seem to be awards of various sorts from small organizations.

Is there a particular Order of the Palm that you know has a Masonic association that you can point us to?

reply to post by emsed1


Emsed1, having purchased and read most (if not all, by now) of the book our illustrious Anonymous recommended, can you say if there's any truth to his statement

They are spot on to every ritual I have ever witnessed, or memorized.

(Realizing of course your own knowledge is limited to Blue Lodge ritual) is there anything remotely resembling actual degree work in that piece of garbage, or is it all much as you've shown in the excerpts you've shared?

Hello applebiter, spirit7, and..gee..you've been on here so many times that I lose count of your previous names. Just some friendly advice for you - if you plan to go around and use the same talking points, you need to tweak them a bit. Otherwise, its obvious who you are. Just trying to help you out.

Originally posted by TrueLight
Firstly in response to Alightindarkness's post...
Your logic, sir, is desperately flawed. Anyone with an iota of ability in English comprehension can see that you are merely trying to deceive the readership as to the contents of my posts.

Uh-huh. Sure. This is why you still can't provide any proof for anything you've said so far about how all these random signs are masonic, or how the death of some family member is masonic, etc.

Originally posted by TrueLight
You worship or rather "follow" or "lead by" A light.

I serve THE light.

Let us agree to be on different ends of the sliding scale.

Uh, no. I honor masonic light (heh, ML, not you, although I honor you too ), but its not something to be worshiped or follow. That is the place of religion. If you want to think you have some sort of divine revelation and are serving "the light" you go right ahead - your not the first to think they've got it all figured out. You won't be the first nor the last person in the world to think they are serving some divine being and the rest of us are sheep.

Originally posted by TrueLight
I should like to add the following, so that persons seeking illumination may make an informed choice:

Since masonry does not provide "illumination," that is all lovely but rather moot.

Originally posted by TrueLight
While both processes have benefits, perhaps you might consider that the former has inherent limitations. Namely the fact that your "illumination" comes via lower level 4th density Service To Self entities (STS). These entities feed off emotional and spiritual energy, namely in the negative forms. Hate , Fear and so on. I believe this is why mentioning Lord Jesus Christ is perhaps frowned upon. Lord Jesus Christ represents purity of heart and unconditional love.

And here again you demonstrate that you have never, ever done any research into this and seem to just be opining. You would quickly find throughout masonic ritual that service to others , and doing good because its the right thing to do - in secret so that we never receive the praise for it, where possible - is a chief tenet of the fraternity. This happens to be absolutely in line with what the Bible orders Christians to do. Jesus would not be mentioned in the lodge because masonry is not a religion. This is also why Allah, Muhammad, the Buddha, Krishna, and any other deity or religious figure is not mentioned.

Originally posted by TrueLight
I am not stating that I am a Christian, before Christians get excited. I am merely stating that unconditional love is most distasteful to these STS beings. They feel doom and gloom when they see someone truly loving and happy. It is the opposite side of the coin per se. It makes up the dark part of creation, that affords mankind free will.

I think you just explained yourself very well. You see a fraternity where people are doing good because its the right thing to do - and in fact even try to do it in secret so they get no credit for it, where possible - and you hate it. You are a STS being.

Originally posted by TrueLight
I expect the wild and irrational debunking of what I have written but I merely wished to clarify what it was that I was hinting at in my previous post regarding my Grandfather's sudden death. There are many cases of Masons developing bowel and throat problems, I believe this has something to do with your associated rituals. Correct me if you have alternative rationale, but please don't feign intelligence by misrepresenting my posts for your own ends.

If I were you, I would not make up "masonic signs" and then blame deaths in your family on "the masons" while claiming anyone else is wild and irrational. The irony is just too delicious. The alternative rationale to this is you are just making it up and using the logical fallacy of hasty generalization. You have no data to show that the occurrence of masons with "bowel and throat problems" is greater than in the general population. You saw 1, and assume it happens to everyone. Of all the masons I know that have health problems, I can think of perhaps 1 with a throat problem - which came from years of smoking, which he was doing way before he ever joined the lodge.

Originally posted by TrueLight
Lastly, an enlightened person is observable by their ability to control their emotions, I thought this is what the aim of Freemasonry was? Is it not the view that "All is mind"? Therefore the mastery of the mind and brain states relates to mastery of the gross physical without (What exists outside of you). As above , so below. Perhaps you would be so kind as to clarify what the personal goals of Freemasonry are.

Your opinion on "enlightenment" has nothing to do with masonry. The personal goals of masonry vary from one person to the next, but generally involve having the individual embrace the tenets of the fraternity (friendship, morality, and brotherly love).

Another day, another "enlightened individual" on ATS who has come to tell us how much in the dark they are and they have all the answers. Does ATS have some flashing sign above it that attracts this sort of thing?

reply to post by emsed1


You, my good sir, are the picture of masonic patience. I couldn't even bother to get through three sentences in those paragraphs without laughing so hard I was on the verge of tears.

Sometimes I wonder what the anti-masons would do if I whipped up a "book" (ie, started up a word document and began rambling) which turned the tables and accused anti-masons of being behind 9/11 the crusades, the death of the dinosaurs, and everything else as they do to masonry. God, the responses would be just precious.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
reply to post by emsed1

 

Emsed1, having purchased and read most (if not all, by now) of the book our illustrious Anonymous recommended, can you say if there's any truth to his statement

They are spot on to every ritual I have ever witnessed, or memorized.

(Realizing of course your own knowledge is limited to Blue Lodge ritual) is there anything remotely resembling actual degree work in that piece of garbage, or is it all much as you've shown in the excerpts you've shared?

There are bits and pieces of ritual that are correctly described, but the connotation the author associates with them are incorrect.

For example, he states that all degree work is done in the dark. Perhaps this is the case in England, but all the degrees I have seen or been a part of occur in a lighted room.

It also looks like he exposed (GASP!) all the secret passwords and handshakes! So, for those of you who insist on gaining all the top secret wisdom and knowledge that comes with knowing secret nonsense words and (in my opinion) uncomfortable handshakes then they can all be yours at the link 'Anonymous' provided.

For any non-masons still awake and listening - Here's the rub of the whole matter...

Words and handshakes are meaningless. They have remained unchanged for centuries and exposed many times over and over. These are not the real secrets of masonry.

I won't tell them to you or show you for one simple reason. My brothers, whom I respect deeply, asked me not to out of a sign of respect for what I have been given.

I don't care if you have the words, memorize the rituals, practice the handshakes... hell, I don't care if you put masonic license plates on your car. It doesn't make you a mason.

Perhaps we have come to the most important question of all.

Why Won't You Give Me the Secret of Freemasonry?

The answer is: "Because I can't."

It's not that I refuse, indeed I would love to give the secret to everyone and anyone who wants it. It's because the secret is not a word, an action or anything with physical dimension.

The secret of masonry is an experience. It is something that is felt. It is a feeling of compassion, comfort, relief and truth. It is love for your neighbor and respect for your nation. It is hope, faith and charity. It is good.

I will post a quote here from ritual as an example. This is from an old Texas monitor whose content is freely available on the web. I don't believe this violates any obligation that I have:

To soothe the unhappy, to sympathize with their misfortunes, to compassionate their miseries, and to restore peace to their troubled minds, is the grand aim we have in view.

I don't mean to get all wishy-washy, but I think there are important things to be said and to be heard. I don't speak for masonry but I believe my brothers would agree with me that we don't seek to recruit, or even enlighten, anyone.

Each person will draw their own conclusion on masonry based on available evidence. All of your opinions are valid. I would only ask that even if you don't believe me at least understand that I am being honest about my opinions and impressions of masonry.

Lastly, I thought it might be useful to include a quotation from a masonic funeral service. Any mason that wishes to have a masonic service is provided one. (yes, that means even the 333rd grand dragon wizards of mordor if they so choose).

To me, it is touching and sort of summarizes the whole masonic philosophy. It also sort of makes pointless all of the criticisms of masonry.

"What are all the externals of majesty, the pride of wealth, or charms of beauty, when nature has paid her last, just debt? Fix your eyes on the last scene, and view life stripped of her ornaments, and exposed in her natural poverty; you will then be convinced of the futility of these empty delusions. In the grave, all fallacies are detected, all ranks are leveled, and all distinctions are done away."

That's right folks. The one thing that all people have in common, whether mason or non-mason, Mother Teresa or Hitler, is that in the end we all die.

Wealth, power, influence, medals... In the end it means nothing. The only thing that matters is how the people you love remember you. Did you help others? Were you kind and loving? Did you value peace and harmony?

Anyway, sorry to preach. I don't mean it as a lesson, just as an example of my opinion of what masonry is.

Originally posted by TrueLight
I also understand that lower 4th density STS beings also find mentioning Lord Jesus distasteful, to the point of causing them actual pain.

I honestly do not know what any of that truly means but for words causing actual pain I do have an image of the Knights Who Say 'Ni' firmly stuck in my mind right now.

I am amused at the comments. I could only write so much as anonymous and this is the follow up. I am not trying convince anyone of anything. I look at life as a personal spiratual journey, and I am only trying to make sense of the world around me. This book has presented some point of views that accuse what everyone has always accused the Mason's hidden aganda to be, Luceferian worship, or the idea of pursuing forbidden, hidden, secret knowledge. I am not the author, get no royalties, I am just trying to have a debate with people that have the same preparation, or have witnessed the same information as me. Nothing more. I would respond faster, if I set up an account, which I might have to do, seeing that people actually want to talk about this. I have been studying this illuminati conspiracy for over 10 years, trying to make sense of it all. And in my estimation this conspiracy is so complex and huge, I get lost and depressed trying to get my mind around it. But I have seen, or believe I have seen many coinsidences that make me believe that it is real. The first book I ever bought on the subject was Behold a Pale Horse, by William Cooper.

So EMSED, you skimmed the short book and are pointing out every sensational thing in it. Again the author is referring to UK Masonry, not American Masonry, but they are arguably the same. The top or origin of our structure is supposed to be the Royal Grand Lodge of England. Are you a Mason? I refer to this book to bring up some points that I have personally experienced and or have been searching for meaning in. Basically, is the highest secret in Masonry the worship of Baphomet, the rejection of Chirst for the pursuit of hidden knowledge? In the Illuminati videos they show a two old pictures, one is of our most famous Mason, George Washington sitting in a peculier position similar to a popular picture of Baphomet. You will not find this photo on google, just checked. What is disturbing is this photo, err photo of a painting of George with his apron and jewel on, sitting in the EXACT same position, hand, and arm position of Baphomet. I have seen claims that this is the highest secret in Masonry. It is rumered that this is the big secret exposed in the 33rd degree, the honorary degree to which few ever witness. Thus the satanic accusations.

So assuming that this is true. It makes sense that Masonry has been used as a tool, enticing membership to a secret organization, that most will never know the true meaning of, to pursue the preservation of the old elite guard. Using their members through fear based control, to make back alley deals, manipulate governments, and encourage people to follow an agenda that is not in the open. To subvert public policy and make a two teired system, one for the masses and the other for the brethern.

That being said, it has been discussed that eliets have always been accused of using the paranormal for their own purpose of preservation and control. The Templars are accused of this during the crusades, pursuing Kabbalistic mysteries by excavating the holy land looking for lost secret knowledge. Some say they found it, others think it is as simple as pursuing Luceferian donctrine, interacting with spirits, or demons, the hidden knowledge or other demension communication.

Truelight, I am not trying to belittle you, or discredit. Your statement about worshiping dark forces requires one to prove themself fits right in to my points of blood sacrifice, through fear based control. Think about every major genocide, and pointless war through our recorded history, mainly over the past 1000 years. Does it not make sense that every one of these MAJOR losses of human life take root in the actions of evil men. Men who manipulated masses to prove their worth to the evil entities they think will give them benefits? There are many examples and I am out of space for the next 12 hours. I will post again if the conversation evolves.

I never met a Mason I didnt like