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Ask a Mason

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posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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I must had one or more freemasons uncomfortable..to had my post removed...

because i really, '' think '' i had a honest and legitimate
question to all masons around here.

The psychological unfluence of Freemasonry on their followers is fascinating me
and i really thought a freemason would have the courage to answered me.

The emotional anchor, associated with false beliefs, can really push a
humanbeen to behave or do things they would'n done otherwise if they would'n
had the influences of a group or association or organisation.

is someone want to answer me, it would be apreciated

*** Achilles 13 ***




posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Achilles 13
 


I see no question in this post. Can you please tell us what the question is that you desire to be addressed?



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13
I must had one or more freemasons uncomfortable..to had my post removed... because i really, '' think '' i had a honest and legitimate
question to all masons around here.
No, you didn't have ANY questions. You told us to "stop lying, misleading, proselytizing and recruiting". When Emsed politely asked if you had any questions, you requested that we "stop lying, misleading, proselytizing and recruiting". But you still haven't actually asked a question about Masonry, the topic of this discussion. (And also, as Emsed pointed out, you haven't shown proof of a single lie being made by a Mason in this thread...)


The psychological unfluence of Freemasonry on their followers is fascinating me
and i really thought a freemason would have the courage to answered me.
Nobody here, Mason or not, is afraid of you or any questions you might have. Contrary to popular belief though, being Masons does not make us mind-readers. If you have a question about Masonry, ask it and we will answer. If you want to state your opinion about Masons or Masonry, do it in another thread.

[edit on 7/30/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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FIRST, let me tell you, that i am NOT at all, anti-Masson.

Maybe by insecurity BUT many freemason here, when any
gentlemen conspiracy theorists, expose freemasonry's conspiracies,
they accuse them '' falsely '', of being against them personally.


Here are my 2 questions i want to '' ask a mason ''

********************************************************

1. Is there any of you, who can conceive the possibility that
freemasonry is part of a conspiracy without the majority
of followers knowledge,

2. Is there any of you, who can turn his back on freemasonry
and resign, if you realise that indeed a conspiracy exist.

********************************************************

Thank you

*** Achilles 13 ***



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13

Here are my 2 questions i want to '' ask a mason ''

********************************************************

1. Is there any of you, who can conceive the possibility that
freemasonry is part of a conspiracy without the majority
of followers knowledge,

2. Is there any of you, who can turn his back on freemasonry
and resign, if you realise that indeed a conspiracy exist.

********************************************************

Thank you

*** Achilles 13 ***




Hi,

For question 1 I would say that it would be impossible for masonry to be a part of a conspiracy in which the majority of members would be deceived.

My reasoning for this is that all masons are volunteers, and any mason can take charge of the lodge as master. The master has absolute say over the lodge, but he only gets the office for a year. It would be difficult to manipulate masons without their knowledge.

For the second question - Absolutely

If I found out there was a sinister conspiracy to masonry I would resign immediately, and as an ATSer I would come here first and shout it as far and wide as I could.

I would have no hesitation walking away from any organization that I discovered had a sinister purpose.

I mentioned before in this thread to a couple of folks that I spent four years researching masonry from top to bottom. I followed every anti-masonic claim to its end and time after time they fell apart.

In fairness, though, I must admit the first time I ever heard of a Masonic/Catholic plot was here, (I think from you, but I may be wrong). That was a new one to me, but I am willing to explore it with an open mind if you can provide some place to start.

I hope this helps.



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13
1. Is there any of you, who can conceive the possibility that
freemasonry is part of a conspiracy without the majority
of followers knowledge,


Is it possible? Anything is possible. Is it likely? Not in my estimation. Freemasonry is too de-centralized to permit over-arching plots or machinations to take place without many members knowing or participating in them.


2. Is there any of you, who can turn his back on freemasonry
and resign, if you realise that indeed a conspiracy exist.


I would first do my best to determine the extent of said situation and then help in anyway to rectify the wrongs being comitted.



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13
1. Is there any of you, who can conceive the possibility that
freemasonry is part of a conspiracy without the majority
of followers knowledge,


I can not conceive the possibility that Freemasonry is part of a conspiracy without the majority of followers' knowledge.

I'll admit its possible, and even probable that there are men who are Freemasons who also conspire to some agenda. That does not, however, presume that any such subset would have any power over the actions of the rest of us. I have yet to see a credible explanation of a power structure that would allow for such manipulation.

The biggest flaw in your argument is the breadth of the term "Freemasonry". Yeah, you're going to argue that I'm being pedantic (though you'll probably accuse me of rhetoric instead, and I've already corrected you more than once on the usage of that word...) But Freemasonry defines the Blue Lodges — the 3 degrees defined as Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master Mason.

The problem, as the others have noted, is that there just isn't an infrastructure in place that controls all the Blue Lodges. Each Blue Lodge answers to its Grand Lodge, but the Grand Lodges only answer to the members of all the lodges. The Grand Master of each Grand Lodge is elected for a one year term. All major changes to Masonic laws are voted upon by representatives of each lodge within the Grand Lodge.

Now if you want to believe a group is involved in a conspiracy, you'll have to be more specific. You could look at any of the appendant bodies... the Shriners, the York Rite, the Scottish Rite. Let's take the Scottish Rite as an example, since they get picked on for having the highest number of degrees, and people seem to think that means something special.

Well, again, you can run into a problem of being too general. The Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction, and the Northern Jurisdiction don't actually pay too much attention to each other. And there are other Scottish Rite bodies around the world who similarly don't answer to anyone higher than their own leader. So we'll refine it a bit. Let's say the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction is part of a conspiracy. That might be credible. The chain of power is in place: Valleys, Orients, Representatives, Supreme Council, all the way up to Ron Seale. If the SRSJ were an army, Ronald A. Seale would be the Commander in Chief. Buf if Ron Seale says "Jump", J. Random Blue Lodge Mason isn't going to ask "How high?" Any Grand Master of a Grand Lodge is going to say, "You said what?" It's only the members of the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction who will be obliged to carry out his commands. (Granted, that's a pretty big number... and yeah, you probably should be scared of us.)

But to say Freemasonry could be part of a conspiracy? Not a chance.


2. Is there any of you, who can turn his back on freemasonry
and resign, if you realise that indeed a conspiracy exist.


We can all resign. Thousands every year are kicked out for simply not paying their annual dues. There's no repercussion. There's no fear of getting disemboweled for "knowing too much". You just stop showing up, and not send in your check when January rolls around. Or if you wanted to be declarative, you could call up your lodge secretary and officially "demit". It's a simple form they fill out and send to the Grand Lodge that says you're no longer a Mason. Happens more often than you'd think.

[edit on 7/30/2008 by JoshNorton]



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 11:32 PM
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Thanks for your answers,

Yes...The blues lodges are , in a way, innocent temples. Adepts are brainwashed
with Solomon freemasonry's values but, there is no real secret, others
then the rituals and the blue lodge '' works'' throw your 3 blue lodge’s
degrees

*** BUT *** saying that there is no more important, higher degree is a
*** LIE *** it is like saying that in a democracy, all citizen have the
exact same power when we all know... that in a capitalist democracy,
richs are powerful, pulling the string of politics economic and social organisations,
and poors have no real powers.

Example: in the most powerful grand lodges, a freemason can ask to
visited it but he cannot assist or he will not have full access to all works
and meetings, without being invited. he will be restricted to a planed visiting tour.

Saying that all master mason are equal is a lie, to hypocritly hide, the
powerful pyramid, structure of freemasonry

More you getting in freemasonry and advance in degrees above
the third '' Master Masson degree '' and more the brainwash strategies
are being applied to gradually lead followers to be ready to be use and
manipulated depending on their aptitude in social, commercial and political
powers in favours of elites who want to have a control, on a Globalisated world.

95% of freemason are poor innocent victims who are being used to
promote freemasonry's '' TEMPLES '', like freemasons really call their
lodges..., without having knowledge of the new world order agenda,
called globalisation process, the elites planed to succeed, to create a One
Word Empire under the hidden... secret society of ROME who is the real...
Grand Architect of the Universe.
 


When you apply to a membership at Above Top Secret, you took the '' OAT ''
to deny ignorance by exploring and exposing conspiracies to help humanity.

All the ATS community have never saw any freemason exploring and
exposing any conspiracies, you are all, always on a secret societies thread
defending freemasonry or promoting freemasonry while, all......
Gentlemen Conspiracy Theorists, are using all their energy
to find the truth behind conspiracies and exposing it.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

****** MY QUESTION TO '' ASK A MASON '' IS... ******

----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Which '' OAT '' is more important to you.....!


****************************************************[/b

Deny ignorance and exposing conspiracies

OR

Defending and promoting freemasonry

****************************************************



Thank you


*** Achilles 13 ***



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13


*** BUT *** saying that there is no more important, higher degree is a
*** LIE ***


No, it isn't. As has been explained to you about a million times already, there isn't any "higher, more important degree" than Master Mason. There are plenty of additional degrees, but any Master Mason who wants them can take them.



Example: in the most powerful grand lodges, a freemason can ask to
visited it but he cannot assist or he will not have full access to all works
and meetings, without being invited. he will be restricted to a planed visiting tour.


This is incorrect. All Master Masons in good standing may be seated at all meetings of the Grand Lodge, has a voice in the deliberations, and may witness all proceedings. The only difference between regular members and Grand Lodge representatives is that the former cannot vote in Grand Lodge (although the members advise their Grand Representatives, who do vote).



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13
*** BUT *** saying that there is no more important, higher degree is a
*** LIE ***


Quick quiz. Which is bigger? 3 feet or 33 inches?


Originally posted by Achilles 13
95% of freemason are poor innocent victims who are being used to
promote freemasonry's '' TEMPLES '', like freemasons really call their
lodges


The building is the temple, the brethren (or membership) are the Lodge. That's why a Lodge can be held anywhere from a pub to a quarry to an old fort.


Originally posted by Achilles 13
All the ATS community have never saw any freemason exploring and
exposing any conspiracies, you are all, always on a secret societies thread
defending freemasonry or promoting freemasonry while, all......
Gentlemen Conspiracy Theorists, are using all their energy
to find the truth behind conspiracies and exposing it.


If somebody calls black, white or says 2+2=5, are you going to let a mistake sit there because it's a conspiracy site? The Masons on this forum correct misunderstandings, miscomprehensions and outright lies with the truth, as unglamourous a pastime as it is.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


1. Higher degrees:

Exacly like a cult, freemasonry use alot of manipulation strategies, and
one of them is to endoctrinate followers by making them think, they are
better men then the rest of the population.

That make the follower's personal ego stronger, so they are proud to be
Master Masons of their '' TEMPLES ''. and followers of the Cult of freemasonry.

BUT the reality is that, a freemason in his life, who don't get higher then the third degree,
is very rare, i personaly, never saw one. all freemasons, dreams of the
scotish rite, 33 th degree and the 13 th degree of the York
Rite '' order of the Night Templars degree ''


It is easier to manipulate followers if they are proud of beeing freemason
and if they don't have any Apprehension and fears, to go further deep in freemasonry.

So when brothers influence others to get higher degrees, followers just do
it because brainwashed freemasons, wants to find the '' LIGHT ''
and follow the '' LIGHT ''

BUT in reallity, exacly like Jehova Witness and Scientology.....to become a
better man and find the '' LIGHT '' you have to invest in freemasonry's
degrees and freemasonry's Bling Bling and activities.

Machiavelic... but a very brillant brainwash strategy, isn't...!


2. seated at all meetings of the Grand Lodge...

It is truth that all Master mason in good standing can seat at many
of the grand lodge's meetings but not all and not without first having
request the visite. Only when the grand lodge have decided to let you in
that you can be seating in AND sometime Some Grand lodges ( Temples )
refuse in a polite.....way......to open their doors in certain privat assemblies.

In reallity, Some assemblies are keep secret and privat but it is done in
a way that exterior members are not aware of it, the grand lodge's Tyler
just organise a visite to another assembly date, pretexting any escuse
so the freemason will, get in...
BUT ONLY WHEN SOME..... Grand Lodges decided it...!



BUT PLEASE, YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION...!
 


--------------------------------------------------------------

****** MY QUESTION to Masons is... ******

--------------------------------------------------------------



WHICH '' OAT '' IS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU.....!





****************************************************

Deny ignorance and exposing conspiracies

OR

Defending and promoting freemasonry

****************************************************



Thank you


*** Achilles 13 ***



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Achilles 13
 


I'm an 19 year old poor college student who is a 32 degree Master Mason, Shriner, Officer in my lodge, and a Past Master Councilor of DeMolay. i got more out of the first 3 degree's then i did in the Scottish Rite. of course it is subjective, but IMHO that's what i thought. btw there are many masons who do not desire to go onto Scottish Rite, York Rite, Shrine and so forth. Personally i enjoy going to my blue lodge, rather then to the Scottish rite or shrine meetings.

There is nothing higher then a Master Mason (3rd degree). it doesn't go up any higher then that. The Scottish Rite are just added ceremonies for masonic information, but it doesn't make you any better of a mason then another master mason (3rd degree), and you will NEVER hear any 32nd or 33rd degree Master Mason say different then that.

and you're question about which oath is the most important to me. To me all the oath's are important you learn something new in each oath and you take o new rights and moral standards and ways to live and treat other humans. All the oath's teach you how to be a better husband, son, grandfather, brother, citizen, and neighbor. It makes you look at your life, and treat others with kindness and sincerity. to b e tolerant of others and always whisper good advice int the ears of others even if they don't like you, or your belief's.

Also we are not promoting Freemasonry. we cannot solicit anyone to take the degree's of masonry in order that they may truthfully answer the question "is this of your own free will and accord?". it's not our mission (well my mission anyway) to get new members. Masonry isn't for everyone, and that's ok. You do whats best for yourself, and if you want to join then great and if not? then so mote it be. it's not any masons obligation to make sure that someone joins masonry. you must come of your own free will.

2B1ASK1

and on the other note about defending Freemasonry. It's not so much as that we are defending it, but as we are correcting the mistakes and claims that non-masons or anti-masons make against our organization. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's what makes this country great, BUT that's why some of the masons are on ATS. We have come on to spread a different light of masonry to the world. we want to show you what masonry is all about. Ask questions, we will be gladly able to share and answer your questions about masonry. want to know the secrets? ASK. want to know what we do in our meetings? ASK. Want to know how to become a mason? ASK.

Many masons on here are gladly and willing able to share their experiences in masonry as i am. Some of our answers might differ, because IMHO Freemasonry is subjective, and everyone gets something a little different out of masonry. Also on the other hand we all get the same thing out of masonry and that is brotherly love, relief and truth.

that's my two cents.




posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Achilles 13
1. Higher degrees:
Exacly like a cult, freemasonry use alot of manipulation strategies, and
one of them is to endoctrinate followers by making them think, they are
better men then the rest of the population.


Chicken and egg. It isn't possible that their egos were already in good shape before applying to a Lodge, now is it?


Originally posted by Achilles 13
That make the follower's personal ego stronger, so they are proud to be
Master Masons of their '' TEMPLES ''. and followers of the Cult of freemasonry.


Funny ol' thing. The temple that my Lodge meets in also hosts 2 other Lodges and a number of appendant bodies. Guess what? The temple still refers to the building, not the Lodge. No matter how many times you continue to make that mistake, it doesn't make it true.


Originally posted by Achilles 13
BUT the reality is that, a freemason in his life, who don't get higher then the third degree,
is very rare, i personaly, never saw one.


So you're saying you're a Mason? I'm 7 years a Mason (Master Mason presently) and my life and work career mean that I haven't more time to devote in a month than what's required for my Lodge. Masonry specifically states that a man's duties of care are to his family and career always come before any Masonic commitment.

So I guess I'm a rare character in your lexicon, eh?



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by bushidomason
 



Originally posted by bushidomason
reply to post by Achilles 13
 


I'm an 19 year old poor college student who is a 32 degree Master Mason,
Shriner, Officer in my lodge, and a Past Master Councilor of DeMolay......
and you're question about which oath is the most important to me. To me
all the oath's are important.....



Listen kid...

I’m a business man, and I’ve been leading enterprises and dealing
with employees for more than 25 years, and I’ve heard it all...

so please, stop playing game with me, and..........


Answer clearly my question...!
 


--------------------------------------------------------------

****** MY QUESTION to Masons is... ******

--------------------------------------------------------------



WHICH '' OAT '' IS MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU.....!





****************************************************

Deny ignorance and exposing conspiracies

OR

Defending and promoting freemasonry

****************************************************



Thank you


*** Achilles 13 ***



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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I took no oath in joining ATS.

I consider my masonic oath fundamental to denying ignorance.

In fact, this whole thread is about denying ignorance.

Wikipedia


Ignorance is the condition of being uninformed or uneducated, lacking knowledge or information.


I feel you are ignorant of the facts being presented here, specifically that masonry has no evil purpose. I am helping to deny that ignorance by providing answers to questions from those seeking to learn about masonry.

By the same token I don't expect anyone to take what I say, or what other masons say, as the truth without checking for themselves.

You, on the other hand, have been presenting your own personal opinions and impressions of masonry without any facts or evidence to support those opinions.

Instead of presenting evidence to refute our claims, you simply call us liars and post endless links to dozens of other threads where you have done the same thing.

So, in fairness, I would like to ask you a question.

In your opinion, what is the real purpose of freemasonry, and do you have any evidence to support it?

Heck, since it's Friday afternoon I wouldn't even mind watching some of those YouTube videos you love to post.



posted on Aug, 1 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by Achilles 13
 


lol what does being a business man and dealing with employee's have to do with Masonry? And you have herd what? Have all your employee's been in Masonry and talked to you about it? I don't understand where your coming from

Which "Oat" do i feel is more important to me?

i do have to say that i am an oatmeal kind of person.

i love oats



[edit on 1-8-2008 by bushidomason]



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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Ok, I have a question... is it neccessary to know a Mason to become a Mason? I have finally decided after 3 years of research that I am ready to join, but I do not know any Masons... is this a problem???



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 02:51 AM
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What is the average time it takes someone to become a Master Mason?



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by hotelguy26
Ok, I have a question... is it neccessary to know a Mason to become a Mason? I have finally decided after 3 years of research that I am ready to join, but I do not know any Masons... is this a problem???


Not at all. I was in the very same position before I joined and went by the local Masonic temple a few times before running into someone. Of course, clever lad that I am, it hadn't occurred to me to just do a Google search and that would've brought up contact information. Anyway, just search on Freemason and your city/town and you should come up with at least an email address for a Lodge secretary if nothing else and then things can go from there.

Good luck!



posted on Aug, 2 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by thirdeyeflight
What is the average time it takes someone to become a Master Mason?


It varies and it's up to the individual.

Some guys like to jump in and do it as quickly as possible. Some like to take their time and absorb the lessons of each degree as they go.

The only disadvantage of doing it slowly is that you can't vote in lodge until you are a Master Mason.

Our lodge has Dispensation to open on the first degree if we have an EA that wants to come to a meeting. He isn't going to see anything above his 'pay grade' and it's good practice for the old farts to open on another degree.

It's really up to you and your brothers will help you move through at your own speed.

I went through fairly quickly and I was feeling sort of bad about it, but then I realized the learning never stops and you will see the degrees given over and over. I usually see something new every time.

On average, in our lodge anyway, it seems to take 6 months to a year.




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