Satan Loves you...Thats why he hates you...

Hello everyone. I have a couple question that I would like to ask the viewers. I hope to hear your personal beliefs and not the doctrine that you were raised in. That being said.

#1 Why do you believe that there are separate Lords of Right and Wrong? How I mean that is, IF you believe that "God" is the ultimate being and that it is him, and him alone, that creates all things thereby Judges all things, then why do you believe that a "Devil" or "Satan" is able to gain power over people and to even appose the creator himself thereby trying to bring a different outcome than that which God self would want? By the way "satan" means adversary. Even Peter was called Satan by Jesus, so I would say it is a title and not a single entity, but I would still like to hear why you believe.

#2 If you didn't come out of the womb with a bible and you can't take one with you when you die, why would you believe that it is the final authority on how to conduct your life? I'm not saying it and every other holy book is not beneficial, I am just curious as to why it would be the ultimate "Word" and finality in your moral evaluation of life and others?

Thanks again and always Peace

WHOO, Who's Satan and why is my, sorry wrong thread, thought this was about Rosemary and her baby, my mistake. Carry On!

If god is good and created something that was good and became evil.

That would make god imperfect wouldn't it?

Originally posted by Grey Magic
If god is good and created something that was good and became evil.

That would make god imperfect wouldn't it?

Perfect? I guess we would have to know what perfect means.
Or could it be that he just lets it die and forgets about it? It says in the bible, that "HE takes no Pleasure in the death of sinners". I would take this to mean, he doesn't like dying. Thanks for replying

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


That is why it is called FAITH.

God created man and gave him a choice. He said "eat all foods except from this tree." We all saw how that turned out. God has not decided your fate. You do. So you can turn away from God.

And as for the Bible, it is the word of God to believers. There are no words to make you see that, just faith.

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Hello everyone. I have a couple question that I would like to ask the viewers. I hope to hear your personal beliefs and not the doctrine that you were raised in. That being said.

#1 Why do you believe that there are separate Lords of Right and Wrong? How I mean that is, IF you believe that "God" is the ultimate being and that it is him, and him alone, that creates all things thereby Judges all things, then why do you believe that a "Devil" or "Satan" is able to gain power over people and to even appose the creator himself thereby trying to bring a different outcome than that which God self would want? By the way "satan" means adversary. Even Peter was called Satan by Jesus, so I would say it is a title and not a single entity, but I would still like to hear why you believe.

#2 If you didn't come out of the womb with a bible and you can't take one with you when you die, why would you believe that it is the final authority on how to conduct your life? I'm not saying it and every other holy book is not beneficial, I am just curious as to why it would be the ultimate "Word" and finality in your moral evaluation of life and others?

Thanks again and always Peace

1) I personally believe that the "lords" of right and wrong are inner battles between one's self for righteousness. Also, I think that Christians tend to make God more humanlike as time goes on, so that we can better cope/attempt to understand what God, in essence, is.

2) I don't believe that any specific religion is the "right" religion. Man made religion, God didn't. That said, I believe God is more along the lines of love; which is why I tend to lean towards Christianity. I admire Jesus greatly and wish I could be 1/100 of who he was. I think the Bible isn't the end-all-be-all of right and wrong, it's just a general guideline to give us each a push in the right direction. And then we, as humans, must either take the responsibility to better ourselves or to ignore morality and give in to materialism and selfishness. I think Jesus just wanted to get the point across that we all need to love each other. No more hate, no more prejudice, no more anger.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

...why do you believe that..."Satan" is able to gain power over people and to even appose the creator himself thereby trying to bring a different outcome than that which God self would want?

I think that God created other beings, besides Man, with a degree of free will.
Some of these beings want to be helpful to Man, and some are indifferent, and some have varying degrees of animosity towards Man.
When some of these get out of hand, God sends one of His more powerful beings to restrain them.
A lot of misconception of Satan comes from a misconception of God.
Jesus says resist the devil, and he will flee.
People can become possessed by inviting in spirit beings, for whatever reason.

so I would say it is a title and not a single entity

Pretty much, or a way to describe an attribute of something .

why would you believe that it is the final authority on how to conduct your life?

Because there is not anything better.

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

That is why it is called FAITH.

God created man and gave him a choice. He said "eat all foods except from this tree." We all saw how that turned out. God has not decided your fate. You do. So you can turn away from God.

And as for the Bible, it is the word of God to believers. There are no words to make you see that, just faith.

Thanks for your reply. Yes faith is good and you must have it to believe. What I asked was why do you believe that these forces are separate?
I know the bible is what "Believers" read. I asked you, why is it the final authority? Didn't you come into the world with everything you needed?
"Gods words are spirit not flesh. This world and all that is in it shall pass away, but my word will never pass away."-Jesus

reply to post by Alexander_Supertramp


Thank you very insightful, reply. Peace

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
How I mean that is, IF you believe that "God" is the ultimate being and that it is him, and him alone, that creates all things thereby Judges all things, then why do you believe that a "Devil" or "Satan" is able to gain power over people and to even appose the creator himself thereby trying to bring a different outcome than that which God self would want? By the way "satan" means adversary.

That is simply because we have the freedom of choice. To have the choice to choose between what is evil and what is good. God did not create us to be robots. Same thing with the angels, God gave them a choice. Lucifer, the day star, son of dawn, who is called Saturn (Satan), chose to rebel against God. He wants to topple God from His throne. And he really did it together with 1/3 of the rebelling angels. But they were not successful and failed miserably. How can one go against the Almighty, having infinite power and energy? It's a futile exercise.

Again, during the millennium reign of Christ, there are some people there that were not happy at all with God's rulership. Satan was released to deceive them again. What was their choice? They chose to rebel against God and follow Satan and they were all destroyed and the devil thrown into the lake of fire where the false Christ and the false prophet were. All those people who rebelled against God were judged and also thrown into the lake of fire. All evil fully destroyed.

The end result: There shall be no more death nor sorrow nor pain, for the former things has passed. Behold, God will create everything new - new heavens and the new Earth. Everyone will have eternal joyous life full of joy, peace and happiness for ever and ever. Amen.

So, the outcome is good and victorious. God needed to weed out everything that causes evil and it must take its full course till the end.

Even Peter was called Satan by Jesus, so I would say it is a title and not a single entity, but I would still like to hear why you believe.

No. Peter is Peter and Satan is Satan. They are two different personalities. Jesus was merely rebuking the evil spirit, the devil tempting and influencing Peter. Thus, He says, "Get behind me Satan!" not "Get behind me Peter".

#2 If you didn't come out of the womb with a bible and you can't take one with you when you die, why would you believe that it is the final authority on how to conduct your life? I'm not saying it and every other holy book is not beneficial, I am just curious as to why it would be the ultimate "Word" and finality in your moral evaluation of life and others?

The Holy Spirit will teach us every truth and will lead us. So, we are led to the Bible and read it according to what the Holy Spirit reveals to us.

"The sheep hears His voice, and they follow Him. They will not follow the voice of strangers and will flee from them."

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

 

...why do you believe that..."Satan" is able to gain power over people and to even appose the creator himself thereby trying to bring a different outcome than that which God self would want?

I think that God created other beings, besides Man, with a degree of free will.
Some of these beings want to be helpful to Man, and some are indifferent, and some have varying degrees of animosity towards Man.
When some of these get out of hand, God sends one of His more powerful beings to restrain them.
A lot of misconception of Satan comes from a misconception of God.
Jesus says resist the devil, and he will flee.
People can become possessed by inviting in spirit beings, for whatever reason.

so I would say it is a title and not a single entity

Pretty much, or a way to describe an attribute of something .

why would you believe that it is the final authority on how to conduct your life?

Because there is not anything better.

I agree with the misconceptions people have about God/Satan. I know, just from reading the word, that it is God who does all these things. Creates darkness and forms light. Sets up, puts down. I just don't understand, why people believe that He is the source of all things, yet they think "Satan" is out to get them. Since God is Just meaning balanced or even, wouldn't there always need to be a "Satan" around to counter balance since God never changes?

reply to post by amitheone


Thanks for the reply. Do you hear what the spirit is saying?
The word for eternal in the bible is eon and means "vanishing point" or "time out of mind" and not forever, as anything created has an end (alpha and omega) nothing is forever. So, essentially Jesus and Satan are the same in the fact that, they get all of the bad in the world pinned on them and have to suffer for everyone, because people won't be responsible for there own actions. An adversary holds you up to the standards you abide by, seeing you slip, they attack. Peter was saying to Christ, far be from you that you should die in return Jesus told peter, get behind me Satan. I'm pretty sure he was talking to peter. It's like calling someone a jerk. Their name is not jerk, it's what they are being. Peter was being a Satan.

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand

they think "Satan" is out to get them.

Some preachers like to use that in their sermons, I think, to make people afraid to not show up for church.
My friend had some of his friends living at his house, the husband was a preacher who was between jobs.
I was sitting there one day discussing religion with the wife and the husband came in and said, right in front of me, that this was a trick of the devil to deprive them of their joy.
Apparently he had no tolerance for anyone not blindly agreeing with him.

Thanks for the reply. Do you hear what the spirit is saying?

The Bible is the word of God. The Bible is where God talks to you, and praying to God is where you talk to God.

The word for eternal in the bible is eon and means "vanishing point" or "time out of mind" and not forever

Eternity is where time does not exist. It goes on for infinity or forever. Time only belongs to this material reality - the fabric of space time. At infinity, the fabric of space time does not exist. Physical laws break down at the singularity or at infinity.

as anything created has an end (alpha and omega) nothing is forever.

Anything created which became evil and chose not to follow God has an end. They are not forever, but the children of God are for eternity.

So, essentially Jesus and Satan are the same in the fact that, they get all of the bad in the world pinned on them and have to suffer for everyone, because people won't be responsible for there own actions.

No. They are not. Jesus is the Savior of the world and teaches men to live a good and God fearing lives. He died on the cross to save those who believe in Him.

Satan on the other hand, is a liar and a murderer from the beginning. He is the promoter of evil things, a deceiver and teaches men to rebel against God and to live a life full of evil. He is a tempter and the evil one. He did not die on the cross and suffer for our sins. He enjoys people committing sins and yielding to his temptations.

People are responsible for their actions, for they have a choice. You chose God because you are of God and He is your Father.

Peter was saying to Christ, far be from you that you should die in return Jesus told peter, get behind me Satan. I'm pretty sure he was talking to peter. It's like calling someone a jerk. Their name is not jerk, it's what they are being. Peter was being a Satan.

No. It was Satan, the evil spirit influencing Peter. Satan being a tempter, tempted Peter to say those words and even rebuke Jesus. Jesus knowing very well where this words and action came from, said, "Get behind me, Satan".

Kindly note the same words used by Jesus when satan tried to tempt Him:

Luke 4 (King James Version):

5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. 7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


And again:

Mark 8 (King James Version):

33. But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

.....

Satan is a pest and very persistent. He will not stop. He has been trying to tempt Jesus every time he has an opportunity. He will use every means to stumble Jesus, thats why Jesus said on this verse:

Matthew 16:23 - NIV

Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."


Satan even uses Peter to say those words in the effort to stumble Jesus simply because he cannot tempt Jesus successfully. So, he uses someone as his tactical offensive.

But, as usual, he failed again.




[edit on 7/13/2008 by amitheone]

Wanted to remind people that Satan is a Hebrew word. It can be translated as adversary or accuser. It denotes hostility.

Its used throughout the Bible even in reference to the Angel of the Lord and various people when being hostile.

As for "The Satan" of Job and Zechariah. I have never heard that he had any compassion for humans. To say anything deviating from Canon is Pseudo Apocrypha. Its like fan fiction but worse, because people think its non fiction. Half the crap people believe these days is all pseudo apocrypha.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Wanted to remind people that Satan is a Hebrew word. It can be translated as adversary or accuser. It denotes hostility.

Adversary being like gods prosecutor in a court of law?

That would mean he is building the case against us on gods behalf?

As for "The Satan" of Job and Zechariah. I have never heard that he had any compassion for humans. To say anything deviating from Canon is Pseudo Apocrypha. Its like fan fiction but worse, because people think its non fiction. Half the crap people believe these days is all pseudo apocrypha.

So true. Allot of people are holding on to preconceived ideas from John Milton's "Paradise Lost" and don't even know it.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by jaydelay]

[edit on 13-7-2008 by jaydelay]

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Wanted to remind people that Satan is a Hebrew word. It can be translated as adversary or accuser. It denotes hostility.

The evil one has actually many names across many cultures and civilization. Satan is also known as Saturn:

"It is 'SATAN who is the god of our planet and the only god'… In the order of divine evolution SATURN (SATAN), astronomically, 'is the seventh and last in the order of macrocosmic emanation'" (Blavatsky, p. 234, quoting Dr. A. Kingsford: Perfect Way, Appendix: The Secret of Satan)

"The SATURNIAN SPIRIT, 'SATAN' …ensouls the Third great major or Primary Ray of Deity." (Marrs: Mystery Mark, p. 69, quoting Vera Stanley Alder)

In Rome, he is called Saturnus, to the Greeks, he is called Kronos, to the Sumerians, he is called Ninurta, in the Bible, he is called Satyr (pronounced as Satur), and to the Chaldean, he is called "STUR". STUR when calculated gives a total of 666. (S=60, T=400, U=6, R=200).

The devil has many names actually. So we need to keep up with his name.

When will people wake up? Its all a STORY!

If you want to get down to it, Satan was a king that persecuted the jews in the old testament.

reply to post by jaydelay


Precisely like a Prosecutor, one that gets away with entrapment.

I think the point and purpose of his entire existence is building a case against humanity. The Book of Job doesn't paint a picture of G-d vs. the Devil. It paints a picture of the Human race on trial. Satan is the Prosecutor, the Angel of the Lord appears to be humanity's advocate or defender(based on the Book of Zechariah) and G-d is the Judge. So instead of G-d vs. Satan its really Humanity vs. Satan.

That is very true about Milton's "Paradise Lost". It and Dante's "Inferno" seem to be followed more than whats actually written in the Bible.

reply to post by amitheone


How can you quote Blavatsky? She was a racist quack.

The Satan has never been Saturn. Saturn and Kronos were considered by the Romans and Greeks to be the same as El, the head of the Canaanite Pantheon known as the Elohim.