To Move or Not to Move...

Hello all!

I have some questions for the ATS community. I have faith in the intelligence of the ATS members, and would love to hear what some of you would do in my position. I figure there will be a wide variety of answers/ opinions of what should be done, and I am open to all opinions and am greatfull for the advice.

OK. As the head of my household I have come to the conclusion that a move from my current location is best for my family. I live in Southern California where gas prices are at an all time high and I live 30 minutes to an hour away from a job market that is bear bones at best. I recently closed down a business (it was no longer worth it for me to stay open) and lost a house due to the housing crunch. The house I live in now is in the late stages of foreclosure and short of coming up with $30,000 nothing can be done to save it.

But, in light of all the recent bank failures and economic problems of America I am wondering if now is a good time to move. We have looked over all of America and have decided on Henderson, NV for personal and distance of family relationships reasons (not to mention the cost of living is much lower). We have been given until late August to come up with the money or an auction date will be set by the bank.

My questions are: With all the rumors of a coming economic collapse (I have read rumors of September/October/November), would it be wise to move now? If this collapse comes, what will come of my house as it stands now? If the banks that own the house (US Bank & Wells Fargo) give way, who will then own the house? Would we still be able to live here while the mess gets sorted out?

Also, one of the reasons I have decided Las Vegas is because of the international appeal it has. In other words,` while the whole of the economic struggles encompass America, I think Las Vegas may remain fairly independant. I would think the casinos would start allowing foreign currency such as the Euro or pound or Canadian/ whatever to roll through their machines and (somewhat) back into the Vegas economy, therefor keeping jobs open and allowing for a better scale of living.

So, what do you think of this? Is this sensible? I would appreciate your opinion very much as what you would do or whether you think Vegas a good place to go or not.

Thank you for reading and responding!

[edit on 12-7-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

If you have the money.

Move.

I happen to live in the Organic heart of the Mid-west, and am thankful to be here.

It is cheap to live here... and when the S.H.T.F ... there will at the least be food available locally... ie: my backyard.

Also..

I would call up the bank and ask for the paperwork that you closed with when you purchased your home...

If they can't come up with it.. they cannot evict you... (they supposedly lose like 25+% of them)


====

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


My girlfriend lives in Vegas. She absolutely loves it. I think the tourism is actually getting better than ever recently. There are absurd amounts of money at every turn. I suggest you also look into Summerlin. Its slightly more expensive, but I find that its a better area on the whole.

As far as me, I think its the buttcrack of America. I like temperate summers, but I suppose you're used to the heat. I just can't stand a place where I have to travel 45 minutes just to get to the grocery store. The place is so expansive. Phoenix was the same way, and I only lasted about 6 months there. These are probably things you deal with in Cali though, but I wouldn't know.

I find most people who live there love it, so I guess its just not my cup o' tea.

reply to post by SavageHenry

If you have the money.

Move.

We certainly plan onmoving eventually, but do you think now is a good time?

It is cheap to live here... and when the S.H.T.F ... there will at the least be food available locally... ie: my backyard.

right on, good for you. . I wish I had that luxury.

I would call up the bank and ask for the paperwork that you closed with when you purchased your home...

If they can't come up with it.. they cannot evict you... (they supposedly lose like 25+% of them)

Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I'll check it out.


[edit on 12-7-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

reply to post by SantaClaus

I like temperate summers, but I suppose you're used to the heat.

Right on, this is where we are going to miss Cali big time. I love the weather and the ability to see the ocean. The heat in Vegas is going to suck!

I just can't stand a place where I have to travel 45 minutes just to get to the grocery store.

I live near stores. It is a small town outside of a small city. There are no real jobs where I live and it takes 25 minutes to get to the "larger" city.

Cali is great, but it is just too expensive, and the jobs are getting slimmer by the day. And that is another thing, unless you live in L.A. then you are going to have to drive a ways to get to work. That is another plus for L.V., I could take a bus (more than likely) to get to work, and it wont take an hour or two to get there. At least that is my understanding.

I am hesitant to move though. Just in case something happens to the banks and the economy and we are able to keep the house we live in. I mean sh*t, if we are not paying rent for the next 12 months I will get a little job here and save money until the economy gets back on its feet and we are able to rent it out.

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


Well, LV public transpo is not all its cracked up to be, and the roads are the most dangerous in all the land.

However, there are plenty of good places to work outside the main drag. I don't know what it is you do, but I'm sure it can be found in Henderson/Summerlin. And I'm sure you can find a place to live within walking distance.

Lets put it this way.. If you want to do this to "ride the storm out" per se... Then do it. I wouldn't suggest looking into buying anything in LV either. The rent is surprisingly low out there though.

I also am not familiar with your lifestyle, but if you're willing to maybe live in a nice (smaller-relatively) apartment for the next year or 2, I can see you coming out of this with a pretty good chunk of change saved up.

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


Well look at the situation.

Some like myself have been calling this for years...Every day that goes by lately makes the haunting dinner I had with a senior Ford executive even more chilling...

His words were ..."What is coming is going to make the Great Depression look like a picnic"

This was in 1999... when the luster of gold was sparkling off of almost every ones eyes.

He explained how this is what was talked about in the circles he traveled in...and now look at what we have.

I am a inherent optimist, however I can still see and acknowledge reality.

It is not going to get any better any time soon.

It would take an invention that surpasses the internal combustion engine, the internet, computer, and sliced bread by ten orders of magnitude to reverse the momentum of where this illusion is headed.

I would love to see that happen, and some say it has already happened...

However I think it is going to get much worse before it gets any better.

So to repeat...

If you can, and you really think it is going to help you... MOVE


Not now.. Right now.


(although I do not think your chosen location is a good one- but I may be wrong)

You may want to stay.. gather a group of friends and family ... make them aware of where we are headed and make plans to get through this together if you can.

California definitely has some pretty bad things going against it. Besides the natural disasters that are so common, there is the liberal mindset. People there depend on the government for everything, and a day is coming when that government cannot deliver on all the promises it has made. That day may be sooner than the rest of the country, since the environmentalists are placing restrictions on the ports and trucking companies that are, simply put, heinous and unachievable. This will eventually bankrupt the entire state.

So yes, I would suggest a move, if you can swing it. Now as to Vegas:

Las Vegas is a powerful economy in its own right, and barring the unforeseen it will no doubt continue to be for some time yet. Vegas makes its money on other people's desperation to a large extent (sorry, but it's the truth), and that desperation from the neighboring state of California will only increase. So expect Vegas' economy to continue unimpeded for some time after California has collapsed. As long as you have marketable skills for the area, you should be OK.

I would suggest an outlying area (don't have my atlas here, but I think Henderson is), and make sure you have access to plenty of the one thing that is missing in Nevada: water! The proximity to friends/family back in CA is a good thing as well, plus you have an incentive for them to visit you: Las Vegas!

Monetarily, as long as you can sell your existing home, and come out with a major down-payment on your new home, you will probably be all right for a while. I would be very leery of financing 120% of a home's value, but 40-50% wouldn't be so bad just yet. I would do everything possible to pay it ahead, or, if you can't pay it ahead, save up several months' payments and keep them safe until needed. A lot of mortgages will not allow you to pay ahead; anything extra you send in will simply be applied to the principle and shortens the length of the loan. the payments are still expected each month. Be sure you have the discipline needed to save those future payments, though, because it is very easy to spend stored cash with the intention of replacing it later. The road to Hell is paved with such intentions, not just in the religious sense, but in the financial sense as well.

Should a bank fail, the Feds will no doubt seize the assets of the bank. That is not the same as seizing your home; they take the mortgage for themselves and try to service it themselves or sell it off to another bank. All you have to worry about is the address on the payments. Should a bank fail without such a takeover (improbable in the long term, more possible later on), the house is yours. It's like you co-owned a house with someone else, and they died; if they had no heirs, you keep the house (although expect a few legal challenges).

Good luck! You have the right idea.

TheRedneck

However, there are plenty of good places to work outside the main drag. I don't know what it is you do, but I'm sure it can be found in Henderson/Summerlin. And I'm sure you can find a place to live within walking distance.

Yes, the plan is to move to Henderson. I have no desire to work on the strip. But of course I will if that is what I have to do.

The rent is surprisingly low out there though.

Exactly, this is why we want to move. the rent is fantastic compared to So Cal.

Cant do the apartment thing. I have 3 dogs, couldnt leave home without them.

reply to post by SavageHenry

His words were ..."What is coming is going to make the Great Depression look like a picnic"

Right, this is what has me the most worried about Cali. I am not sure how the people are going to react. Though, I do live in a nice, quaint neighborhod where everyone pretty much knows each other.

I am a inherent optimist, however I can still see and acknowledge reality.

This is how I would describe myself as well.

If you can, and you really think it is going to help you... MOVE

Even if there is a chance of holding on to the house through all the chaos that would come in the aftermath of the collapse? Do you think there would be any chance?

Not now.. Right now.

As of right now, the only thing holding us back is a job. As soon as myself or my wife has something lined up, we are gone. And the fact if there is a descent chance of holding on to the house. If there is we would reconsider. That is why I am on here, basically. I am trying to ascertain whether there is a descent chance of holding on to the house in the aftermath (if the collapse comes of course).

(although I do not think your chosen location is a good one- but I may be wrong)

Why do you say so?






[edit on 12-7-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

Well there you go...

The grass is not always greener... and NV has always struck me as one of those places that is pure illusion.

If there was a total civilization collapse it is just at the bottom of my list for places to live.

I mean we have to use what we have right?

If you have a winning powerball ticket.. have a great time in Tahiti, or where ever you want.

However if you don't ... and all you have is a house with a yard...(and face it the climate in S Cali is kinda perfect for growing food all year round)

I would do what I could to keep your home.... I would do what I could to mobilize my neighborhood for cooperative survival.

Although every situation has its strengths and weaknesses... You must do what you think you must... as you have to live with the decision.. not me or anyone else.

I know how you feel to be in between a rock and a hard place... it is not fun.

I can say though with out reservation...

That if you had the money to purchase a homestead in a rural, fertile area... then to do that...

Moving from one suburb to another is kinda pointless... even if it is cheaper in the interim ... none of the real issues are solved.. and my just be exasperated.

reply to post by TheRedneck

there is the liberal mindset.

lol..thats funny. True enough. Though you would be suprised how many Bush supporters are here in the county I live in. Not that I would consider Bush a conservative, but my ex landlord for my business had a huge cutout of Bush and an American flag in his office.

People there depend on the government for everything, and a day is coming when that government cannot deliver on all the promises it has made. That day may be sooner than the rest of the country, since the environmentalists are placing restrictions on the ports and trucking companies that are, simply put, heinous and unachievable. This will eventually bankrupt the entire state.

Good point. Thanks for pointing that out.

. So expect Vegas' economy to continue unimpeded for some time after California has collapsed. As long as you have marketable skills for the area, you should be OK.

Good to hear. Though I have no real knowledge of the current economic situation myself this seems to be true from everything I have read.

I would suggest an outlying area (don't have my atlas here, but I think Henderson is), and make sure you have access to plenty of the one thing that is missing in Nevada: water! The proximity to friends/family back in CA is a good thing as well, plus you have an incentive for them to visit you: Las Vegas!

Ding ding ding! I completely agree. The Colorado river is right there. I wonder what kind of restrictions they would put on it if a real collapse took place? I know they are already having water shortages big time. Do you think they would guard it if some collapse occurred?

Should a bank fail, the Feds will no doubt seize the assets of the bank. That is not the same as seizing your home; they take the mortgage for themselves and try to service it themselves or sell it off to another bank. All you have to worry about is the address on the payments. Should a bank fail without such a takeover (improbable in the long term, more possible later on), the house is yours. It's like you co-owned a house with someone else, and they died; if they had no heirs, you keep the house (although expect a few legal challenges).

Wow, thanks for the info. keeping that in mind, if I were to up and abandon the house (I stated in the OP it is in late stages of foreclosure) now and then then the market collapsed would I be able to reclaim it even thoug I do not live in it? My mother and father owned the house until they divorced. I then bought out my father and have lived in it for the last year with my wife, son and mother. My mom said something about a homestead. Would this help to keep it if aformentioned situation occurred?

Good luck! You have the right idea.

thanks for the good info!

reply to post by TheRedneck


Why the constant "liberal" bashing???

What is wrong with being free? open minded? generous? tolerant?...

Some of the best liberal instincts I inherently have were reinforced by the military...

You know.. that whole concept where a chain is only as strong as its weakest link...


Were all in this together... everyman for himself will just doom us to extinction.





[edit on 12-7-2008 by SavageHenry]

reply to post by abelievingskeptic

Do you think they would guard it if some collapse occurred?

I imagine any guarding would be by other neighbors, not the government. With the number of rivers even in that area, it would be a massive task to guard every bank.

if I were to up and abandon the house (I stated in the OP it is in late stages of foreclosure) now and then then the market collapsed would I be able to reclaim it even thoug I do not live in it? My mother and father owned the house until they divorced. I then bought out my father and have lived in it for the last year with my wife, son and mother. My mom said something about a homestead. Would this help to keep it if aformentioned situation occurred?

OK, my bad, I missed that point. If it is already in foreclosure, unless you either come up with the $$$ quickly, or you can get a friend to buy it cheaply for you out of auction (on the sly, of course), you've already lost it. No sense crying over spilt milk, get outta there.

TheRedneck

reply to post by SavageHenry

Why the constant "liberal" bashing???

What is wrong with being free? open minded? generous? tolerant?...

You misunderstand me. The political double-speak we have today makes it hard sometimes to portray what one actually means. By the term 'liberal', I was referring to those who believe that the government has all the answers, the government is always right and in their best interest, and that they are owed a living simply by being born into this society.

Judging from your other posts, I don't think you are in that particular class of 'liberal'. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Were all in this together... everyman for himself will just doom us to extinction.

Sorry, but if by that you mean I owe you something, I don't think so. Neither do you owe me anything. We each stand on his/her own in the end, and any help given to each other is an act of humanity and compassion, not a requirement of debt.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck

OK, my bad, I missed that point. If it is already in foreclosure, unless you either come up with the $$$ quickly, or you can get a friend to buy it cheaply for you out of auction (on the sly, of course), you've already lost it. No sense crying over spilt milk, get outta there.

So, even if the banks collapse and their is confusion in the aftermath, you don't think it would be worth it to try and hold on to it. What if records were lost? Knowing the government, I believe this to be very possible. I dont know, just speculation on my part.

Also, I was contemplating striking a deal with the bank as to let us rent it out after we moved and use the rent money to pay the mortgage. With all the foreclosures going on, you think they would be up for something like that? I could only imagine it has been tried before...

reply to post by TheRedneck

We each stand on his/her own in the end, and any help given to each other is an act of humanity and compassion, not a requirement of debt.

Agreed, I hope Americans are ready to become humanitarians and compassionate beings. From what I have seen, there are many givers and just as many, if not more, takers. When the bottom drops out, that will be the real test of humanity. Compassionate or everyman for himself. I hope it does not come down to that.

reply to post by abelievingskeptic


It seems we are all walking around and oblivious to what will soon happen. And let's just say that, things have been horrible for some time and geo bushy and dicky still have their cards to play before, during, or after the election.

You sir, are thinking ahead and actually doing something about it. I commend you for that. Sadly, I feel as if you will have more hours or days than the minutes residents in SoCal will have when TSHTF.

I need to move too. Rockies or plains when TSHTF.... Big question. NORAD just down the street. Does I-70 get locked down immediately? If it does I am screwed. I can take back roads and get to Boulder and hide in the mountains out there. Maybe. I need a better plan. I need a plan.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention in the manner that you have...Plucky is scared.

You sir, are thinking ahead and actually doing something about it.

Well, I am more concerned for my wife, son and mom. It is hard to imagine not being able to take care of them, if I stayed in So. Cal. I can not afford the most basic things. That is what it is allabout I think. I also have to have faith in my fellow man. Even if tshtf like you say, there is still going to be humanity (i hope).

Sadly, I feel as if you will have more hours or days than the minutes residents in SoCal will have when TSHTF.

Are you are saying you think residents of vegas will have more time if some doomsday scenario were to occur?

Plucky is scared.

Nothing wrong with being scared, its all about how you handle the fear. That is the bottom line I believe.



[edit on 12-7-2008 by abelievingskeptic]

reply to post by abelievingskeptic

Anything you can do to strike a deal with your bank is at least worth trying. The banks don't want land; they want money. So you have one thing on your side, and a creative idea might just swing things for you.

When confronted with a question like this, I always ask myself: what's the worst that can happen? In this case, the bank says 'no' and you are no worse off than before. So go for it!

Oh, and I have to remind you that self-reliance and compassion are not polar opposites; they can exist. I will typically truy to help another person much more if I see they are trying to do their best without begging.

Best of luck to you.

TheRedneck