Obama - College Spring Break in Pakistan

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Because AMERICAN CITIZENS couldn't travel there at that time. He must have used his Indonesian passport, it's the ONLY way he would have been allowed in the coutnry, proving his dual (possibly triple) citizenship which would make him ineligible for POTUS due to conflict of interest.
It's VERY important to ask this question as it could be the hidden key to open the entire skeleton closet that holds the thruth about Obama's real identity.
We already know he went by the name Barry Soetoro as a child after he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, gaining indonesian citizenship in the process. He will not provide documentation that would allow us to know when or if he legally changed his name back to Barack Obama. If he did not, it is fraud and he is again ineligible.
Two passports, at least one other alias, more than once citizenship, these are all very important issues for the American people. The republicans have all this information and will leak it after the convention, leaving us with one candidate for the General Election (could possibly give a third party a chance to move in though). It would be better to disclose all the information he is witholding so the democratic party would at least have a viable candidate who is more than capable of deeating McCain. Obama will lose to McCain in a landslide.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Because AMERICAN CITIZENS couldn't travel there at that time. He must have used his Indonesian passport, it's the ONLY way he would have been allowed in the coutnry, proving his dual (possibly triple) citizenship which would make him ineligible for POTUS due to conflict of interest.

Even IF he has dual citizenship (though i truly believe he doesn't)

BUT

We'll work within the narrow-minded confines of your argument:

IF he has dual citizenship, then TWO things are fact:


1.) All of the crap we've dealt with for 2 months about him NOT being a citizen is just complete garbage, and 100% falsified by twisting facts and telling lies to further along idiotic ideas about Barack Obama. In a nutshell: IF he's a dual citizen, then they were wrong about him NOT being a United States citizen. Seems kind of....oh.....desperate to me.

2.) IF he's a dual citizen, that in no way, in any law on the books, disqualifies him as being eligible for POTUS. The law states he has to be a natural born US citizen. Once again. Your argument contradicts its self.

To OP:

Lets get hypothetical for a second, and put you in the shoes of a very prominent candidate for president.

You're mustering support for yourself, when some clown comes along and says:

(it should be noted that these are not the views reflected by ME. This is how i could see someone using a website LIKE abovetopsecret.com against someone else in main stream media outlets)

"FlyersFan 2012" is a sham, because the man himself subscribes to the website used by the terrorist, Bruce Ivins, abovetopsecret.com

It should be noted that this website promotes such "outside the box" thinking as 9/11 inside job theories that suggest the united states government, led by George W. Bush, conducted the attacks of 9/11, as a means to put the country into a state of war.

They promote discussion with people who claim to be aliens, and condone all sorts of other conspiracies.

Certainly, flyersfans' perception of reality comes into question, because of his relationship with this abovetopsecret.com

Was flyersfan associated with Bruce Ivins? Could it be that the two conspired together? Is that in the best interests of the United States?

He is a very active member, with 673 current threads started.

He also claims to be a pan dimensional being.

Certainly, his long standing membership with the cult'esque website would allow such an ideal to be true.

The world must know.

See?

Easily taken out of context. You and I both know that none of the above is true in a NEGATIVE context, though i could certainly take this to CNN or Fox News and run with it.

Thats why you shouldnt believe what MSM tells you.

Suggesting that it's bad that he visited Pakistan is suggesting that Pakistan is full of criminals and terrorists, and that nothing good comes from it.

Just as in my example of you, if you were running for president, this type of attack is merit-less at best, and completely uncalled for.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Because AMERICAN CITIZENS couldn't travel there at that time.

I can't find any source that states that US citizens absolutely could not travel to Pakistan in 1981. I'm not sure the government can (constitutionally) prohibit travel by regular citizens. As far as I can tell, the State Department can restrict use of US passports, but cannot prohibit people from traveling.

Can you help me out with a valid source? (I mean something "official", not a blog talking about Obama traveling there to be a secret Muslim.)

Remember, Obama didn't go from the US to Pakistan, he went from Indonesia to Pakistan. There's no way to know if he even used a passport. He may have had an Indonesian passport since his family lived there.

You may want to read about the US Government's Travel Restrictions on Americans Traveling Abroad before you "buy" that the government can prohibit a person from traveling somewhere.

U.S. government officials assert that U.S. policies do not amount to restricting American citizens from traveling to any foreign destination, a position some observers believe is designed to avoid a debate over the constitutionality of limits on Americans’ travel rights. Others contend that those rights are indirectly abridged by limitations on the tools required to travel – primarily transportation, expenditure of currency, and passports.

He must have used his Indonesian passport, it's the ONLY way he would have been allowed in the coutnry, proving his dual (possibly triple) citizenship which would make him ineligible for POTUS due to conflict of interest.

Can you show me where having a dual citizenship makes a person ineligible to be POTUS?

We already know he went by the name Barry Soetoro as a child after he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, gaining indonesian citizenship in the process.

Can you show me where Obama was legally adopted by Soetoro? Or that his name was legally changed from Obama to Soetoro? I know it's the name his mother's husband used for him while he was in Indonesia, but do you have any proof that he was actually adopted and his name legally changed? Anything on this alleged Indonesian citizenship?

He will not provide documentation that would allow us to know when or if he legally changed his name back to Barack Obama.

How can he provide documentation that does not exist? If his name was never legally changed to Soetoro, why would he change it back?

The republicans have all this information and will leak it after the convention, leaving us with one candidate for the General Election

Then, you don't have anything to worry about, do you?

In closing, it seems to me that you have made a LOT of assumptions to come to your conclusions. I'm afraid I would have to see official documentation to believe that:

1. The US Government can constitutionally prohibit its citizens from visiting another country.
2. Obama has an Indonesian Passport.
3. Obama is a citizen of Indonesia.
4. Obama was legally adopted by Soetoro and legally changed his name
5. Obama has refused to provide to the US State Department, any and all pertinent records about his name and citizenship.

Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Assuming Barack Obama became an Indonesian citizen when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, Baracak (Barry) Obama (Soetoro) relinquished his U.S citizenship in the mid-1960s. He would then have been issued an Indonesian passport to travel with his parents. If one assumes he kept his passport and renewed it, that is probably what he used to enter Pakistan in 1981 (and possibly one other time).

Obama would then still be an Indonesian citizen... unless he relinquished that citizenship and swore allegiance to the United States. THAT would have been officially recorded somewhere - it's not done "on the fly" wihout government records.

Where are those records? Has anyone looked? Have they searched and not found them?

If Obama never relinquished his Indonesian citizenship and never re-applied for U.S. citizenship, he is still a citizen of Indonesia and therefore ineligible to be President of the United States. If he loses to McCain, it's somewhat irrelevant. If he wins and the truth later comes out, he gets kicjed out of the White House and Biden becomes President. If Biden (who's had brain aneurisms in the past) keels over before he picks a VP, Nazu Pelosi becomes President. Then Alaska and Texas secede from the Union...

Lying about one's citizenship to become President is NOT a small issue... one would hope that even Obamatons could show some limited respect for the U.S. Constitution.

Where are those reporters seeking the Pulitzer Prize? Why do people on the internet have to do all their work for them?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Ummm... What's your point?

What is the problem with him visiting with a friend there? Sorry, I don't get the problem.

And I don't see anywhere that he was there for "Spring Break"...

Lloyd, the madrassa think has been debunked a thousand times.

You do not have much experience with Pakistan do you? Even on a nice day, during a period of stable Governmental Control, Pakistan is a crazy Country where even individuals I know from Third World Nations would not dare venture.

As for the Madrassa, yes that is a rumor. However, he did attend an Islamic School, and as a student in such a place of education, you do conduct at least one daily prayer there. I know this as a fact. Would this not for all intents and purposes make him a Practicing Muslim? I have nothing against a practitioner of Islam, but I do question someone who attempts to hide past beliefs and affiliations. Many Muslims whom I have spoken to agree as well.

If you need yet further proof of something being hidden, then ask yourself this: Why did Obama claim that his Reverend, Jeremiah Wright, was the person who FIRST introduced him to his Christian Faith 20 years ago? Obama is 46 years old, so what was he for the previous 26 years of his life?

You see, it just makes no sense. I could honestly care less about his Religious beliefs, but I do question his honesty. I do believe we have a right to know where our Presidential Candidates are coming from, and so far there is only one Candidate with so much mystery behind their past. It is one thing to have a few "Skeletons In Your Closet", it is another thing entirely to not be able to determine if You even have a closet.

This Pakistan "issue" in of itself might not be nefarious in nature. However, with so many questions up for grabs in regards to this Candidate's past, it does not assist in the doubts many already have about him. We need some concrete answers, and we need them soon.

[edit on 9-14-2008 by TheAgentNineteen]

This is nothing more then "Obama is a secret Muslim!"

So not an issue. Hell, even if he was a secret Muslim... Isn't that like the freakout over JFK being a Catholic? "Will he listen to the people or the Pope?!?!" Never had to worry as he was bumped off...

I think all of us should spend a few weeks in Pakistan. I know that would be impossible, but it would afford us the opportunity to learn a lot about the former territory of India's culture and people. From what I understand it's an absolutely gorgeous region of the world with fertile farm land, rich forests and the majestic Himalayas. People whom I have spoken with who have traveled to that region really enjoyed their time there and have met some really interesting and wonderful people there. Of course there is the darker side with the Talibanization of Pakistan and the attempts by religious fanatics and fundamentalists to oppress the Pakistani people. Make no mistake though, there are aggressive countermeasures lead by liberals who are fighting hard for human rights, equality, democracy, education, along with efforts at peace and justice.

The fact that Barack Obama spent some time over there should not at all be viewed in a negative way. On the contrary, it's a positive. Look, the more we know and understand about other cultures the better we will be in terms of helping assist in fighting religious oppression and building a more healthy and fair society for all it's people, that will be a good ally and trading partner in the region for us and open up travel opportunisms there. This idea that we bury our heads in the sand and not allow ourselves to travel abroad and learn and interact with other cultures and enjoy one another's different foods and customs is pretty ignorant in my opinion. I view this in fact as another positive for the Illinois Senator because the fact is we as a nation interact regularly with middle eastern nations and perhaps he would be more welcomed by their people, and let’s face it, after these past 8 years of nothing but damage of our reputation, we need all the friends we can get.

reply to post by yenko13


More fear and smear. Why buy into that? Why spread it around? "...beyond any doubt."? Are you kidding me?

So he's a liberal...we can agree on this right? Now explain why a liberal would want to support Sharia law?

There is no definitive proof on this whatsoever beyond right wing smear web sites that do nothing other than scare up the religious faithful and right wing brethren into making sure they show up on election day. Nobody else buys this garbage, and even more now after 8 years of Rove recognize it as more of the same strategy of scare the people then offer them an alternative to the false fear they induced. Bunch of baloney!

Next!

The madness stops here

Thread closed