EPA lowers value of a human life

EPA lowers value of a human life

www.guardian.co.uk

It sounds like a spot of gallows humour, but the numbers are no joke: the US environmental protection agency (EPA) has lowered the value of a human life by nearly $1m under George Bush's administration.

The EPA's estimate of the "value of a statistical life" was $6.9m as of this May – down from $7.8m five years ago – according to an Associated Press study released today.

Though it may seem like a harmless bureaucratic recalculation, the devaluation has real consequences.

When drawing up regulations, government agencies put a value on human life and then weigh the costs versus the lifesaving benefits of a proposed rule.

The less a life is worth to the government, the less the need for a regulation – such as the tighter restrictions on pollution that the EPA refused to impose today, effectively postponing any action on climate change until after Bush leaves office.

(visit the link for the full news article)

But of course anything to help business which is more important than plain old ordinary people.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by grover




This is an incredible photo of a baby that is a 9 year old now or at the latest reporting I found online. A friend shared this with me and I have to say I was moved. This surgeon was performing a delicate operation on the spine of this unborn child inside the mothers uterus when the baby suddenly reaches out and grabs the doctors hand. In the story the doctor describes it as the most incredible moment of his life and said he was frozen and did not know what to do for a minute.

Now I wonder...what is the value of a human life?

A picture began circulating in November. It should be “The Picture of the Year,”… or perhaps, “Picture of the Decade.” It won’t be. In fact, unless you obtained a copy of the U.S. paper which published it, you probably would never have seen it. The picture is that of a 21-week-old unborn baby named Samuel Alexander Armas, who is being operated on by surgeon named Joseph Bruner. The baby was diagnosed with spina bifida and would not survive if removed from his mother’s womb. Little Samuel’s mother, Julie Armas, is an obstetrics nurse in Atlanta. She knew of Dr. Bruner’s remarkable surgical procedure. Practicing at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, he performs these special operations while the baby is still in the womb.

Not a joke but story here on ...
jokideo.com...

You do know this was debunked years ago, right?

snopes

And your agenda to take any opportunity to promote your agenda is quite transparent, and sad

it has nothing to do with this article.

Considering each person is born with $47,000 in debt (last time I checked), this is no surprise. The more debt you have, the less you're worth. Maybe if we were on the endangered species list, we'd be worth more.

Nixie: Thanks for posting the Snopes debunking of that picture. I was born with Spina Bifida and I hate it when people use medical conditions and turn it into propaganda.
I wish they'd have had such a procedure when I was in the womb and seeing it turned into a carnival sideshow is sickening.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
You do know this was debunked years ago, right?

snopes

And your agenda to take any opportunity to promote your agenda is quite transparent, and sad

edit on 1-10-2011 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

it has nothing to do with this article.

edit on 1-10-2011 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

You are wrong. The photograph is a real photo.

The description was wrong...MY description was wrong and I copied the wrong EXTERNAL TEXT
that should have gone along with the picture.

Still what was amazing to me was the incredible photo.

The baby was anesthetized and reflexively grasps the doctors finger.

What might my "agenda" be?

Since, you say this as if you know.

Why not tell me?

Originally posted by Afterthought
Considering each person is born with $47,000 in debt (last time I checked), this is no surprise. The more debt you have, the less you're worth. Maybe if we were on the endangered species list, we'd be worth more.

Nixie: Thanks for posting the Snopes debunking of that picture. I was born with Spina Bifida and I hate it when people use medical conditions and turn it into propaganda.

I wish they'd have had such a procedure when I was in the womb and seeing it turned into a carnival sideshow is sickening.

I am sorry about your condition, it is a pity but showing an amazing photo of HUMAN LIFE, to illustrate the value and incredible human nature of human life is far from propaganda. I am wondering... since you and the poster above seem so certain what propaganda this is I am accused of?

Terribly sorry you did not like the photo - which WAS REAL!!!

Admit the description that went along was inaccurate but I had to search and find that bit since I didn't want to post the photo without a link and THAT link and description was the only one I could locate for THE PHOTO which is what I though was really incredible...considering...
I have already said once and will say again AMAZING.

Not sure I understand - do not want to assume, so if you will clarify, that will be nice.

What propaganda am I trying to sell?

reply to post by nixie_nox



From your link at SNOPES.

Hand of Hope


Claim: Photograph shows an amazing in-the-womb fetal surgery.

Status: Real photo;

Thanks for that. It was a real photo.
What is amazing is the picture.

reply to post by newcovenant


Yes, the photo is real, but the story behind the photo is not.

As the surgeon was repairing the spine, the fetus' hand flopped out of the womb. He was placing it back inside when the photo was taken. The fetus was anesthesitized and was not aware of anything that was going on as stated by the doctor at the end of the Snopes explanation. This makes sense. One could imagine that if you're doing a delicate procedure such as spinal surgery, you want to avoid as much movement as possible since there are so many nerves involved. You would also want to prohibit as much pain and discomfort as possible.

The baby did not reach out and grasp the doctor's finger. This is a made up story to further the Pro-Life agenda.

The fetus in the photo was the 54th to undergo this delicate procedure. I hardly believe that when this person grows up and sees that someone used his/her surgery as an attempt to further their agenda, they would be disgusted. I would be. Anytime someone falsifies a story and/or tweaks it to cause an emotional reaction in order to further their cause, it's propaganda.

I'm Pro-Choice. Some days I wish I had just been put back into the mix. There are thousands of children out there that need good homes and deserve to be adopted into a loving family. I had a very rough childhood and my life is always going to be accompanied by limitations. Some I can overcome and/or deal with, others still upset me and cause me to be sad. I'm lucky to have a wonderful family.

This child has a long and difficult road ahead and making up stories before he/she was even born isn't going to do him/her any good.

Yes, life is precious. All life. But we need to remember that nature, natural selection, and survival of the fittest exist for a reason.

reply to post by Afterthought


Touching and very well said. I am also pro choice. It is a difficult world with difficult choices and people need to make them for themselves. I regret the horrors of war, of want and need and greed and sex.
We all do the best we can. It has to be good enough.
I just thought it was an awesome photo and no matter what the circumstances as soon as I saw it I said to myself...damn, this is going to make my pro choice position harder to defend, and it certainly does.


This is no reason in my eyes not to show how absolutely miraculous human life is.


One cannot ignore facts that are inconvenient to their argument, nor accuse people who innocently bring fantastic stuff (none the less) to peoples attention, of furthering that fight.

This has nothing to do with the abortion debate. I was showing the wonder of human life. I hope it's value.

I still have my position and I maintain it.


I also thought this was beside the fact since I am not arguing for or against abortion here and I am a little sicked it had to be brought up around something I found so beautiful.

I am guilty of not checking snopes when my ex sent me this in an email in order to get the full background story. She sent it because my niece oh about 4 months ago - underwent removal of polyps on her spinal cord that were twisted and so they had to do a similar procedure with the operation being performed after anesthetizing her and removing a disk, untangling the cords, remove the polyp and return the disk. It is a fairly routine operation in normal circumstances but these presented complications that were extraordinary.

She was only 6 months old and fortunately I can tell you it went spectacularly, she had wonderful doctors.

reply to post by newcovenant


Thank you for your reply and I understand that we can't always verify a story or the story behind a picture. Many people would certainly see that picture and want to believe that the fetus reached out and squeezed the doctor's hand, but common sense should tell us that this isn't possible. I find it horrible that someone saw that picture and said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to say that the fetus was "hugging" the doctor's finger?" Although it's a nice thought, it's wrong to make people believe something that isn't true.

It's truly amazing that we can operate on a fetus and not kill it or the mother. Why can't we just be thrilled with this alone? Whenever medicine saves a life and/or improves one's existence is a huge step in humanity and what we're capable of. This alone should be good enough. Instead, someone decided that adding an untruth would make this even more amazing, but, in turn, it takes away from this all together and actually ruins the moment.

The truth. I believe this is one of the main reasons we visit ATS (some posters obviously have other reasons). But, mainly, we want the truth. When I want fiction or dramatized non-fiction, I watch TV or read a novel.

Now, regarding the Op. Humans are commodities. From the day we're born, we are expected to consume and make money. We are essentially slaves. When the slaves aren't working, they're not worth as much. People invest a lot of money into predicting progress. Progress, in economical terms, has slowed. When the stock market is dropping, so is the value of every human being. This is wrong and I don't see it changing unless the Fed is dissolved and people become valued by their ideas, talents, creations, and what they are able to contribute to the Earth instead of the monetary system.

Originally posted by Afterthought
Considering each person is born with $47,000 in debt (last time I checked), this is no surprise. The more debt you have, the less you're worth. Maybe if we were on the endangered species list, we'd be worth more.

Staistical life, AFAIK, is nothing to do with "how much you are worth" - it is predicated on how much you are prepared to pay to avoid pain, injury, death.

It is something I deal with in my work regularly (no I'm not in the US, not a federal employee!) - it is determined by surveying how much people are willing to pay to reduce the chances of various bad things happening, and then using some mathematical/statistical wizardry to extrapolate that into how much they would be prepared to pay to stay alive.

Eg you might get asked how much you would be prepared to pay for the chances of dying in an air accident to defgrease from 1/1million flights, to 1/10 million flights. And how much would you be prepared to pay to halve the current road death rate, etc.

At least that's what the version I use is based on. In these parts if is still increasing, but is still less than 1/2 the US value quoted in the OP.

Perhaps what is happenign is that we're all coming together in our perceptions of risk and how much we're prepared to pay to avoid risk??