Fury as Zimbabwe sanctions vetoed

Fury as Zimbabwe sanctions vetoed

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Are Russia and China actually aware of what the elite controlled governments of the west are really doing?

Are they aware that the attempts to 'convert' foregin governements to "deomcracy" is nothing more than the same efforts in Iraq and Panama (for examples).

Is this the real reason the West dislikes Russia and China?

Our history, and some present day stories, tend to show a particular side to life and living in Russia and China. We are fed information which makes us compare our way of life and the idea of a democratic system should be in place instead of what they have now.

Will we find that Both of these countries may be completely against what's going on 'in the shadows'.



news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Exactly as they are not democracies either they can see the way the pendulum is swinging - who's next on the list. Neither of them at the moment to be sure but with our economies going doing the crapper due to the big financiars greed we will need a big war soon to take the pressure off the powers that be and test all those lovely new weapons we have no real need for.

reply to post by johnb

---

A deliberate attempt to stop any western country doing something about Zimbabwe is almost a good thing. Russia and China have stepped in to say "No, you are not going to over run and control yet another country for your own gains".

They have basically said that Zimbabwe has its problems, but it is still a free countru and not under the influence of the Wests corrupt corporate passions.

As far as the economy goes, I was ju8st wondering about the strength of Russia and Chinas money. I don't actually remember hearing anything bad about how their currencies are dropping or not. We know China has a lot of US$ in its control and could wipe out the $ in a minute.. but what about Russia?

It would seem they are quite happy and comfortable selling all their fules to other countries and are just waiting for everyone else to kick off a war so that Russia can reap the benefits afterwards.

Congrats to Russia and China standing up to the West once again. It's a fine line the world is walking right now and for anyone to stop more free countries being taken over is a good thing (even though the people in these untouched countries may be suffering under the hands of their own corrupt leaders..this is unfortunate, yet these things will solve themselves in time. Though I do not condone what has happened and may still be going on towards the civilians of Zimbabwe).

The way I read it, their main reason is that there is a South African initiative on the table, and heading in with UNSC sanction would effectively kneecap it before it had a chance to get off the ground. The African Union was pretty much begging the UNSC to back off, because they are close to a solution. Heading in with sanctions threatens the entire process.

I think they did the right thing.

A bit more detail here: edition.cnn.com...

reply to post by Extralien

---

China (Tibet?) and Russia (Chechnya?,Georgia?) are of course symbols of just and noble behavior, and will never,ever



This is the only thing standing between West and ... East?
I think that people should see that claiming X is eevil is always wrong, does not matter if it is Soviet Union, Zimbabwe ,Iran or mysterious West. I personally would choose almost any Western country as a place to be born in over Russia, China and Zimbabwe - but it is my opinion. If someone thinks that person will be better off in those systems - good. Just no need to paint gray world in black or white.
P.S.
Nobody - Russia,China or wild bad West do not do things for humanity reasons only, it is always politics, power play and spheres of interests and no one is saint.

I must say, I'm sure most free countries don't have someone watching over them to make sure they tick the right box. You say you are not ok with what happens over there, but is it ok for a Zimbabwean (Mugabe) to deny the result of an election and have his people violently intimidated into voting for him a second time, as long as he decides to all by himself, without any outside influence? Who tells him enough is enough? I really don't see how the people of Zimbabwe can do anything against him, so what's left? We just let him and his goons fly around the world buying arms?

Also, doesn't Russia and China have their "corporate passions" firmly embedded in Iran with weapon sales and oil/gas agreements? You don't think they use their influence in that country?

However you look at it, Mugabe is evil and this Russia/China play has nothing to do with him, or Zimbabwe, but is merely chance for them to get one over on us. There's a time and a place for that kind of thing, and it isn't over something this serious.

Zimbabwe is a puppet for China/Russia troops for WWIII

The absolute reality of this entire situation is that Mugabe is the puppet backed by China and Russia. Just like the Libyan oil buyout by Russia, Zimbabwe gives Russia and China a foothold amongst the oilfields of Africa. Both of these world powers(China and Russia) know oil drives tanks and moves civilizations, and the person whom is in control of oil makes the rules. We can see wold powers rushing to take control of these assets including the US(Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq). Mugabe will be the launching point for the conquering of the African continent's oil resources. Lets be honest here and just admit that European efforts to oust Mugabe are because they know this very fact. The rejection of sanctions in the G8 forum is China and Russia admitting their global aims, and being so painfully open about it that WWIII must be coming soon.

I don't think they're being as altruistic as you believe.

China has a significant amount of investment in Zimbabwe because of the Mugabe regime (you may recall that there was a ship loaded with Chinese weapons heading to the country before South African dock workers refused to unload them) so obviously it's in China's interest to keep him propped up for as long as possible. In addition, Chinese military officials have been spotted on numerous occasions in Harare and elsewhere (presumably part of the supply and training between China and Zimbabwe). China is making a scramble for Africa because it sees a huge region of mostly untapped resources and future export markets - it wants to beat the West to it and secure the economic deals and political goodwill for itself.

As for Russia, well, its motives are a little different. Russian relations with the West aren't good at the moment (what with the US missile shield and the flaring of tensions with the UK over the Alexander Litvinenko murder), so this might be a reminder that Russia still matters and wants to keep Western influence in check.

The point is, the welfare of the people of Zimbabwe is not at the heart of Russia or China's actions. The West has less to gain in Zimbabwe than China has.

The united states is not a democracy but a republic, please watch this short video

YouTube Link

OP, you do bring up excellent points however.

Sometimes I myself thought about Cuba, Venezuela and such countries, one might be a dictatorship and one not but almost or wtv.

But i have thought, is dicatorship the only way to not be under america's thumb?

I wish they would do it oldschool and simply "remove" Mugabe covertly.

Why all the political bullocks and international bickering.
This man is a monster and a murderer.

Sanctions against him will do nothing. (Look at how "weak" sanctions made afghanistan and Iraq, the powerfull US has been getting their asses handed to them for over 5 years in both countries now while both places have had the worst and most isolating sanctions enforced on them in history.)

Just "cap his ass" gangsta style.

What is the purpose of such sanctions? Check these examples, Cuba, Iraq, North Korea, those "evil" leaders still have enough money for themselves, but normal people's life is even worse. What Zimbabwe needs is a leader really care his people.



African leaders know G8 hypocrisy when they hear it

Read above article first to learn some Zimbabwe history. Mugabe indeed was a puppet of UK, but now he wants the power for him own (like Saddam and Iraq?). So UK wants a new puppet. The British once had 90% land and 95% of wealth of Zimbabwe, but they didn't do anything good for those poor black people. Instead Mugabe was chosen as a puppet to mess up neighbor countries. and now they are yelling everyday. I don't think other western countries, including US, really care what happened there.

Hardly a surprise. China apparently has plans to "help" much of Africa and "help" them mine their natural resources. Let them have at it, and good riddance. I doubt if they care enough, but maybe they will even introduce the concept of birth control.