It's funny because this is how I was thinking the 666 system would be started and now I see this.

I said a system would be started where people would work for the government and then get paid.

This work will then be tied as a way to pay off the debt. So people will be doing projects for foreign governments.

This is a way to get free labor in the name of doing service for your country.

You do work and get a tax credit which could easily be cancelled out by raising other taxes.

if I want to serve my fellow man, I'd prefer it be my own idea, not some politicians. Every man has a responsible to himself and his family first and foremost.

I don't need legislation that will dictate when, and to whom I will render assistance to. That's and infringement of my personal freedom. You can dress it up as community service if you like, but it's still forced servitude.

Exactly,

I firmly believe that one of the goals of the NWO is cheap or free labor.

I think they tried it in Germany but Hitler was a nut. He turned Labor camps into Concentration camps. They had to take him out and then the people who backed them fed the info to conspiracy theorist and then when asked about it they could say,"Stop reading those conspiracy books."

That's why You have to sift through the info on these conspiacy websites because you get alot of information that's mixed with disinformation.

So Bush can mention New World Order and no one will really question him on it because they don't want to be seen as someone into conspiracies. So alot of real information gets released to these sites so they will not be asked about it.

This will start with college students then switch to the poor.

Work for free and we will give you a tax credit that you will never see.

It sounds good, but smells bad.


[edit on 12-7-2008 by polomontana]

A few things.

Barack Obama's policies are very much in line to create a dictatorship. However, understand that any society of any kind is tantamount to oppression. In other words, even the most free of societies can be the least free.

I don't know if any of you played a game called BioShock, but the game pretty much demonstrates how an Objectivist (uber laissez-faire free market capitalism) society runs itself to the ground. In fact, it even goes as far as to demonstrate how such a free society can spread propaganda in order to advance the agendas of those who maintain power in society. A prominent line of dialogue in the game talks about how the enemy is anyone who does not believe in free market capitalism.

Someone earlier said "government is the problem." I disagree. Government is just one type of institution and organization in society. The problem the general nature of human interaction. In the pursuit of survival, we happen to create institutions such as the government that cause such problems. Its just the way it is and instead of blaming and labeling any one group, we should just try to explain it.

If you guys take away one thing from what I just wrote, get this: ANY society is susceptible to becoming dictatorial and oppressive. You've got the high-tech corporate police societies of rampant free market capitalism and globalization featured in cyberpunk fiction, and on the other side, you've got the state-oriented, more downtrodden, classical dystopian police state societies of novels like 1984 and Fahrenheit 451. Pick your poison.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
ANY society is susceptible to becoming dictatorial and oppressive.

Actually, oppression is the rule and freedom is the exception.

Liberty requires real work to both create and sustain it.

Too bad it looks like we've forgotten that.







[edit on 12-7-2008 by loam]

I don't like Obama or McCain, but people, especially selfish people, which most people are in this country, could use some community service to bring them back to earth and learn some empathy and compassion for there fellow man, something most republicans, "christians", and hillbillies sorely lack. I'll never understand how these "people" can spend 10k on a birthday party and step over a starving man and child and think nothing of it because there selfish and pathetic. Or poor people barely getting by and getting screwed at every turn by there own ignorance but spitting on people just underneath there social status for being "lazy" when that's the same thing people above your social status say you are, its maddening anymore, and sad, and pathetic.

bush also had these plans. but it was far more than 50 or 100 hours. overall, i think it stinks.

Wow I'm actually pretty saddened to see that a lot of people on this board are against the idea of our children actually working hard and volunteering time in the gimme-gimme-gimme society we have in this country. Especially when the idea is actually something that could benefit the individuals and family for their service.

Granted I see the point ... making it MANDATORY would be very unconstitutional and I would be against that as well. Then again I don't think I should have my children take a music class to graduate. Why should they have to waste 195 hours a year learning about something as benign as musical theory? How DARE my school make it MANDATORY that my son takes music theory! Isn't that unconstitutional?

Oh wait.

So what IF it was the school that made it MANDATORY to take music theory to graduate? You could cry foul and yank your kid out of the school, but there is nothing unconstitutional about it whatsoever.

So is your problem only with FEDERALLY mandated volunteering?

Oh wait.

It's optional. Not mandated. Again ... not mandated.

And people wonder about the makeup of Americans nowadays and why we lag far behind many civilized countries in areas such as education and far in front in stats like murder.

For the record I'm from Obama's home state and I am not even going to vote for him because I don't agree with him on a lot of his issues.

But this is just ridiculous to put that kind of spin on a topic like this.

I take it back I'm not saddened. I'm ashamed. Ashamed to think that people do not see words like "progress" and "betterment" in these candidates' plans and rhetoric and instead see/hear "red" and "blue".

Stupid flippin' election time getting me riled up. I'm going back to lurking in my UFO forum.

[edit on 7/12/2008 by Fiverz]

Originally posted by Ruggeder
I don't like Obama or McCain, but people, especially selfish people, which most people are in this country, could use some community service to bring them back to earth and learn some empathy and compassion for there fellow man, something most republicans, "christians", and hillbillies sorely lack. I'll never understand how these "people" can spend 10k on a birthday party and step over a starving man and child and think nothing of it because there selfish and pathetic. Or poor people barely getting by and getting screwed at every turn by there own ignorance but spitting on people just underneath there social status for being "lazy" when that's the same thing people above your social status say you are, its maddening anymore, and sad, and pathetic.

But how can you presume to tell someone else what they need? I agree with what you say about some people in this country and no doubt the world, who certainly live in egregious excess. But that is also within their rights if they have the means to do so. Then you make a blanket statement about Republicans, Christians, and hillbillies? I lived among those Republican, Christian, hillbillies for 5 years, and they were very hospitable to me in every capacity. Granted some were a little on the strange side from my perspective, being the city slicker I am, but they were good folk.

I agree that the wording of the OP article is spin....but so is Obama's website. Sure, it says "opportunities." He also says his goal is to have EVERYONE complete community service. Whatever his policy particulars might be, which are a little vague right now, his stated goal IS to make it mandatory. That is the ONLY way he could reach his goal of having everyone serve. No amount of spin can deny that. Given the choice, there will always be a lot of people who choose to serve their personal freedom before some perceived debt to society.

I think the worst thing about this, though, is how many people have demonstrated that they have no idea of what freedom means. They go on about our "obligation" to serve our fellow man. That's the antithesis of freedom, and arguing the semantics of what is or isn't a flavor of socialism doesn't change that fact. A free man has no obligations nor debts other than those he chooses to incur. Anything else stands against the principles this country was founded on.

We should all be fighting to regain what made this country once the greatest country on earth: personal freedom. Anyone who does otherwise is a traitor to the constitution, and to all of those who have given their lives to the ideals of freedom. When you cut it down to the core, to what impinges on personal freedoms, does it really matter which side of the aisle someone is on? We should weigh ideas and objectives on the scales of freedom, and nothing else.

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
I think the worst thing about this, though, is how many people have demonstrated that they have no idea of what freedom means. They go on about our "obligation" to serve our fellow man. That's the antithesis of freedom, and arguing the semantics of what is or isn't a flavor of socialism doesn't change that fact. A free man has no obligations nor debts other than those he chooses to incur. Anything else stands against the principles this country was founded on.

I guess your definition of freedom varies slightly from mine. With the idea of freedom that I hold includes supporting my fellow Americans that also values their freedom, and I am willing to help them when they need it.

If freedom is the selfish value that you describe, then I don't want it. You can have it. If that were true then enjoy living free and alone. As ridiculous as that sounds, that would be the end result.

First rule of survival: No one can survive alone.

Originally posted by Hal9000

First rule of survival: No one can survive alone.

No, the first rule of survival is every individual must have the freedom to pursue self-preservation.

Obama's PLAN/GOAL is to have EVERY middle school kid do 50 hours of community service.

Did it ever occur to you that the job of the POTUS is NOT to dictate how individuals spend their time, whether it be doing community service or learning a foreign language?

The fact that Obama even has a "goal" like this on his campaign website is incredible, but unfortunately typical of Obama's mentality.

Obama's vision for the country isn't a macro vision of where he wants to country to go; it's a micro vision of HOW he wants INDIVUDUALS to behave.

He wants us to speak differently, set our thermostats differently, eat differently, and drive different cars. And now he wants middle school kids to spend their spare time differently.

WTF?? Since when did the POTUS get the authority to dictate how individuals should be spending their time?

I'm no Obama or McCain fan. I see nothing wrong with people volunteering. Millions of people do it day in and day out. I believe both candidates have volunteers themselves that help out in their campaign. The only problem I have is the $4,000 tax credit for doing so. In my view, volunteering should come out of a person's heart not someone's pocket. I don't believe either candidate pays their volunteers and I as a taxpayer shouldn't be expected to pay for somebody to volunteer. Do it cause you want to not because there is an incentive to.

Originally posted by jamie83
No, the first rule of survival is every individual must have the freedom to pursue self-preservation.

At least when it suits your political agenda.

Obama's PLAN/GOAL is to have EVERY middle school kid do 50 hours of community service.

Did it ever occur to you that the job of the POTUS is NOT to dictate how individuals spend their time, whether it be doing community service or learning a foreign language?

Not until it was brought up by a candidate that you are opposed to. You do know that Bush and McCain brought up the same thing after 9/11, don't you?

The fact that Obama even has a "goal" like this on his campaign website is incredible, but unfortunately typical of Obama's mentality.

Obama's vision for the country isn't a macro vision of where he wants to country to go; it's a micro vision of HOW he wants INDIVUDUALS to behave.

No reason to get personal now.

He wants us to speak differently, set our thermostats differently, eat differently, and drive different cars. And now he wants middle school kids to spend their spare time differently.

WTF?? Since when did the POTUS get the authority to dictate how individuals should be spending their time?

So you are saying that Obama is now a DICTATOR? Great, I guess I missed the entire vote, as well as the celebration.

Damn, I bet it was a good party too.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Not until it was brought up by a candidate that you are opposed to. You do know that Bush and McCain brought up the same thing after 9/11, don't you?

Typical mindless liberal babbling in an effort to deflect the spotlight from Obama. This isn't about Bush or McCain. This thread is about Obama.

So you are saying that Obama is now a DICTATOR? Great, I guess I missed the entire vote, as well as the celebration.

Damn, I bet it was a good party too.

Another typical mindless liberal diversion. Take what somebody says, and then say they said something different.

There's no need to tell me what I said in your words when my own words are right in front of you. I did not say DICTATOR.

I will gladly clarify though.

It is incredible that Obama even thinks along the lines of evaluating and judging individual choices like whether I eat too much, drive and SUV, set my thermostat too high or too low, or speak enough languages to keep him from being embarrassed.

Now he's going to micro manage my children's lives as well, PLANNING that they do 50 hours of community service because HE thinks that's what they should be doing.

I do not need some weenie like Barry Obama telling me how my kids should be spending their time, what languages I speak, or how much I should eat everyday.

What qualifies him to even make these types of judgments? The fact that he want to Harvard? Does that mean he's smarter than the rest of us and we should just fall lock-step in line and do what he thinks is best for us?

Obama's entire mentality has one unifying message. He believes that the average American is too dumb to know what's best, and that we need Barry O. to tell us what we should be doing.

And when we don't comply, then it's up to Barry O. to mandate whatever he wants us to do because he knows what's best for us. This is just warmed over top-down central government planning that's never worked in the history of civilization as well as bottom up individual choice has worked.

This is exactly the type of mentality that makes you think of the word "Marxist" when you think of Obama.