Obama Calls For Mandatory Government Service, page 2

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 11 times

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 01:33 AM by Shazam The Unbowed

This is why Obama scares me. So many of his ideas read like retreads of Italian and german policies in the 30s and 40's.

Requiring every child to perform services to the state, under its direction, is a great way to ensure they beleive that such is how they should live. As servants of the government, rather than as its critical and begrudging subjects. Its all part of the national secular religon that liberals have been pushing for so long. In many ways the philosophy is straight out of "Babylon 5"

"The State is Mother, The State is Father"

And as usual, its the type of law that statists love. Nebulous, ill defined, and wide open for extreme expansion of government power.

Even if the behavior of his supporters didn't, Obama's ideas would still scare me.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 01:35 AM by semperfortis

reply to post by ANOK

Actually, yes he is... OK.. Well sort of... He is pretty much a mix of Socialism and Marxism.

most forms of Marxism share these principles:

# a belief that capitalism is based on the exploitation[5] of workers by the owners of the means of production

# a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects the dominant ideology which is in turn shaped by material conditions and relations of production

a belief that this dialectical historical process will ultimately result in a replacement of the current class structure of society with a system that manages society for the good of all, resulting in the dissolution of the class structure and its support (more often than not including the nation state)

Marxism

Socialism refers to any of various economic and political concepts of state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and services,

system in which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community. [2] This control may be exercised on behalf of the state

Socialism

Emphasis Mine

As you can clearly see, much of Obama's stance and that of the Democrats in general, are perfectly in line with the above definitions.

Semper

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 09:40 AM by Hal9000

reply to post by jamie83

It seems as though some of you are having a little difficulty reading. No where on his website does it call for MANDATORY community service. I even quoted where in the title it said VOLUNTARY, which I will do again, just for you.

Barack Obama's Plan for Universal Voluntary Public Service

www.barackobama.com...

What part of that don't you understand? The only one claiming mandatory service is the opinion article that Loyd posted in the original post.

They are misquoting Obama, and you know it. But you don't care about the truth do you. Just as long as the rumor gets out there and some poor fools will actually believe it.

You have no integrity at all do you? You know this is false, but you are supporting it anyway. Why are you so willing to lie to people to make Obama look bad?

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 09:52 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Misfit
Don't know about anyone else, but that last paragraph especially sounds like, well ........ Communism.

Obama's way of doing things is now called Obamunism by folks on the internet. It's a cross between communism and Obama. It fits.

Originally posted by jamie83
Not only is Obama calling for mandatory service, he's calling for it to be done by 13 years olds.

He's sounding and acting more and more like his own version of the nazis.
And yes .. that is how I read it as well .. that he wants to make 'service' required. What is government 'required service' of children? Slave labor to the state.

He puts the title 'voluntary' on it .. but it sure reads like it flows over into him wanting 'mandatory' to me. (ala Nazi Germany and the Hitler Youth)

Originally posted by semperfortis
"So this is how democracy ends; with roaring applause"

Yep. Slavery of our children to the government AND big beer rallies in Germany. Did ya' hear about that? Obama and his poltiical rally that he wants in Germany!

Obama gets more and more frightening with every passing day.

Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed
"The State is Mother, The State is Father"

Exactly .. and Obama wants to be the Godfather of it all ....

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:13 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin

I'm beginning to notice an extreme lack of judgement from more and more posters anymore.

Barack Obama doesnt, once, ever, say he will "MAKE" americans serve

this, from that link you provided, Llyod

“We will ask Americans to serve. We will create new opportunities for Americans to serve. And we will direct that service to our most pressing national challenges.”

Emphasis on ask Americans to serve. Emphasis on "create new opportunities for Americans to servce"

Again. NO WHERE. Does it say Obama will try and "implement" mandatory service.

In fact, i would expect you neo-cons would appreciate what he's doing. He's trying to create more incentives for today's youth's to feel motivated about the military, peacecorps, etc, the way we once did as a nation.

If John McCain had suggested the very same thing, you'd praise him for it.

The double-standards you all wear on your sleeve so proudly makes me laugh.

It really does.

I hope you've enjoyed 7 years of war, soon to be 8 years of garbage, 8 years of lies, and 8 years of your rights being stripped from you. I hope that Bush's 600 dollar check was "reward" enough for your 8 years of pure crap.

But it is time for change.
It is time to elect Barack Obama.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:14 AM by yankeerose

My kids had to do 80 hours of public service as a graduation requirement. At first I was ticked, and thought it unreasonable. But it actually turned out to be a very productive learning experience for them. Because they volunteered for public service, they all became interested in serving the community. Both my daughters became First Responders and received free medical training to be EMT's. My son became a volunteer Fireman, and has weekly training on firefighting and Search and Rescue.

Because they joined the local fire department... they now are involved with people who help to shape a community. They are more involved in local politics, and are on a first name basis with various Community Leaders. Their opportunities have expanded to include interests and contacts they never even thought of before they volunteered.

I see no harm in putting something back into a community to help it to function as a service to it's citizens. I think it's a GREAT idea!

[edit on 12-7-2008 by yankeerose]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:16 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin

reply to post by Hal9000

What you already know, though, Hal, is that neocons suffer from selective reading. Their brains seem to block out any passages and any quotes that prove them wrong, and they post the rest of it that gives the illusion that they are right.

Barack Obama didnt call for Mandatory anything.
I'd file a complaint and ask that a mod change the title to something less "trollish"

but i believe this argument has been squashed to the point that it allows the OP to shine and bask in infinite ignorance.

Tip for the future, Llyod: Read the entire passage before you post something next time.

[edit on 7/12/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:20 AM by vor78

reply to post by Hal9000

I don't know. Is the word require that difficult to comprehend? Apparently it is. Where I come from, the word require is synonymous with the word mandatory.

If that's not the intention, then he needs to clear up the contradiction in terms on his own website.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by vor78]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:21 AM by LLoyd45

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
I'm beginning to notice an extreme lack of judgement from more and more posters anymore.

Barack Obama doesnt, once, ever, say he will "MAKE" americans serve

this, from that link you provided, Llyod

If you refer to his web site, you'll also see he still says he'll remove the troops within 16 months of his election, But in his speeches he concedes no such thing. They'l remain there as long as necessary just like McCain is saying. What he puts on his page for the casual reader, and what he actually says, are two very different things.

So, don't believe everthing you read from Obama's web site Andrew. You're much smarter than that.

[edit on 7/12/08 by LLoyd45]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:25 AM by Comforter

reply to post by LLoyd45
[more

When everyone works for the government no one can afford to revolt.

The people at the helm plan to take over complete control of this country with as few shots fired as possible.

We are behaving as sheep to be raped (foreclosure), sheared (taxed) than butchered (Bush wars).

Shall we just sniff butt as we follow each other to the slaughter?

Is there an alternative?

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:29 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin

reply to post by LLoyd45

Another common neo-con tactic: Change the subject when you're wrong.

Im not allowing it to get changed, so please don't derail your own thread, llyod.

Barack Obama, never, one time, in that entire article, says anything remotely close to "required service"

So why post an article, and leave out the important parts, to make it look like he did say it?

I believe that kind of goes against the T&C a little bit where:

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate. You will not solicit personal information from any member. You will not use information gathered form this website to harass, abuse or harm other people.

Omitting certain paragraphs, and titling it with the title you did, pretty much goes against this #1 rule in Simon Gray's "law of posting"

[edit on 7/12/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:29 AM by Misfit

This does need to be addressed.

What is on the OP's source is "madetory" and "requiring".
What is at Obama's site is "voluntary" and "expanding".

Granted, I don't follow the news on politics much, but it seems the OP source is very out of context.

It's one thing to state mandetory as opinion, it's another to state it as fact when that fact isn't there.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:30 AM by Hal9000

reply to post by vor78

More selective reading. Why didn't you quote the part that contained the word "require"? Here, I will do it for you.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

www.barackobama.com...

That means that in order to get the $4,000 tax credit it is required to put in 100 hours of service. If you don't want to do it you don't have to.

Thanks, please try again.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:33 AM by DocMoreau

Funny, I thought I read a post by you, Lloyd, where you said that a man wasn't a man unless they serve their country. It was in regard to McCain and his service in Vietnam. I find that statement ironic in regard this thread due to the thousands of 'men' who died in Vietnam who were 'forced' to labor in the killing fields of Southeast Asia.

You make it seem like 'Mandatory Government Service' is the plague of Socialism. If something like this were to come to pass, that it would be the end of humanity.

I would much rather serve my country in a peaceful way than forced to kill my fellow man over trumped up ideologies and wars based on lies.

Apples & Oranges?
DocMoreau

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:35 AM by Misfit

reply to post by Hal9000

WTF? Are you required to perform so many hours of work before you get so many dollars pay?

In your own words ......... "If you don't want to do it you don't have to".

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:35 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin

reply to post by DocMoreau

I agree with you 100%. But you get used to it after arguing with neo-cons for a while.

Again. Never. Ever. One time has barack obama said anything within a hundred miles of "mandatory service"

This thread is trollish in creation.

The myth has been debunked. Once again.

HOW MANY "anti-obama" threads does it take to get to the center of neo-facism fundamental ideals and beliefs?

Just one. Because they're all the same.

Lies, deceit, omittance of facts in order to further the Agenda.

Sounds familiar with IRAQ and WMD's right?

"Oh, they didnt have WMD's???? .... well.....it was a noble cause!"

Dispicable

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:36 AM by Comforter

reply to post by LLoyd45

No one is pulling out of Iraq. The public media is not reporting the castles being built by US contractors in Iraq but they are huge!
Our leaders aren't building these to give away their planing for us to stay.

www.democraticunderground.com...

www.timesonline.co.uk...

I've seen better sites than the above but I didn't keep the links, sorry but the truth is out there.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:38 AM by vor78

reply to post by Hal9000

Speaking of selective reading, I quoted the entire thing in my first post.

As for the meaning of the text, its a matter of interpretation.

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:39 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin

reply to post by Misfit

Do you really, seriously, not comprehend what Hal is telling you?

Let me put it in....simplier terms.

SERVING is a job.
Obama is creating new incentives for you to undergo the tasks in this job.

Obama is saying

"sign up for the ___________ service, and ill give you ______________"

Obama is NOT saying

"I will force you to serve in the ___________" as the OP so trollishly is trying to convince you of.

[edit on 7/12/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply posted on 12-7-2008 @ 10:39 AM by Hal9000

Originally posted by Misfit
reply to post by Hal9000

WTF? Are you required to perform so many hours of work before you get so many dollars pay?

In your own words ......... "If you don't want to do it you don't have to".

Sorry, I'm not following what your saying. Are you saying you think it is mandatory or not?

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