MCCain is not a Natural born U.S. Citizen.

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posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:56 AM
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McCain is a true american hero I am proud he has joined the party of unity by becoming a republican in life. Its good to see more heros join the cause or freedom by not trying to destroy our country with petty partisan politics. Seems like every time there is a new hero someone tries to knock them down but that kind of nonsense doesnt stop the axis of evil from making plans to destroy the world.




posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by vor78
I would think that the term 'Nationals and citizens of United States at birth' would cover it.


You would be incorrect. A "NATIONAL" is a citizen OR non-citizen who owes loyalty to the US. It is NOT "NATURAL" born. Just because it begins with an N doesn't mean that it means the same thing.

The term "National":



The term "national of the United States" means (A) a citizen of the United States, or (B) a person who, though not a citizen of the United States, owes permanent allegiance to the United States.


It is NOT the same as a NATURAL-born citizen.
Not at all.

This is really real, you guys. There is NO proof that John McCain is a Natural-born Citizen and therefore eligible for the presidency. If he had been born a year later, he would be ok.

The only thing he has is that the Senate voted unanimously to say that he is... Can the Senate vote to overturn that phrase in the Constitution? If so, does the Senate just get to decide on a case by case basis?

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
The Naturalization Act of 1790 and 1795 would seem to cover this situation. It seems that the Framers did take up this issue.


As has been explained in my earlier posts, Naturalization is NOT the same as Natural Born. In fact, they are opposites. A naturalized citizen is an alien (NON_American) who becomes a citizen THROUGH law.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:09 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


You're grasping at straws. That entire section of US code is devoted to determining who is a natural-born citizen. The words 'United States Citizen at Birth' and 'Natural Born Citizen' have the same meaning.

Furthermore, regarding the 'Naturalization Act of 1790', it actually does explicitly use the phrase 'natural-born citizens' with regards to those born overseas in the same situation as McCain. The previous poster's link conclusively proves this.

Repost: Naturalization Act of 1790


[edit on 12-7-2008 by vor78]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Please read the sources in the post...

The Act also establishes the United States citizenship of children of citizens, born abroad, without the need for naturalization, "the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond Sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born Citizens".

This is the Framers intention of the meaning of natural born, it is not the opinion of some professor trying to score political points during an election campaign. If this case was to go to any court this is the first piece of law that will be looked at. It is pretty cut and dried and the decision would certainly be in McCains favor.

This is a stupid bloody debate right up there with the Obama Birth Certificate Thread.


[edit on 7/12/2008 by DarkStormCrow]

[edit on 7/12/2008 by DarkStormCrow]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
The Naturalization Act of 1790 and 1795 would seem to cover this situation.


The Naturalization Act of 1790 DID say "Natural-born Citizen". HOWEVER, The Naturalization Act of 1795 (which REPEALS the 1790 Act) said "Citizen".

If you look at the actual text of the 1795 Act:



Text
The Naturalization Act of 1795
An Act to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization; and to repeal the Act heretofore passed on that Subject.
...
...the children of citizens of the United States born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, shall be considered as citizens of the United States.


Once again, Citizens, not Natural-born citizens. Yes, it's a technicality as has been stated since the first post.

I have no personal interest in John McCain not being the candidate. It is my opinion that whoever is in that slot is just a puppet of Dick Cheney and the GOP. I am arguing this on legal terms only. I find it fascinating and challenging. I would have LOVED to have been a lawyer.

So, no, I'm not grasping at straws. This is not personal for me. It's fun. I personally think McCain should qualify. But it's interesting that, as far as I can find, he does not.


Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
This is a stupid bloody debate right up there with the Obama Birth Certificate Thread.


If it's stupid, then why are you involved in it?

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Accoording to your interpertation, John McCain, myself and approximately 20 million children born of US Military Parents overseas are not Natural Born Citizens. Thats why I stuck my nose in this stupid discussion.

It is threads like this and the Obama Birth certificate thread that have caused me to not even bother posting for the last year for the most part.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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My interpretation??? It's not MY interpretation. It's what the Constitution SAYS, what the law says. What the ACTS that you base your opinion on SAY.

If it were just my interpretation, there wouldn't be a lawsuit challenging McCain's eligibility.

If it were just my interpretation, the Senate wouldn't have had to approve a nonbinding resolution declaring that Mr. McCain is eligible to be president.

If it were just my interpretation, Professor Gabriel J. Chin wouldn't have determined the same results in his research.

Much of the wording of the Acts of 1790 and 1795 were the same. That sentence is exactly the same, except they removed the words "natural born". It would appear that was purposely done.

I look forward to a post that I read and have to say, "Ok. You're right. The proof you have provided means that John McCain IS a natural-born citizen."

Actually, I BELIEVE, under current law, people born outside the US to US citizens ARE considered Natural-born. Not sure about that.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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McCain is an American. He was born overseas to parents serving in our military. He's aboslutely an American who can be POTUS.

Obama is an American and can be POTUS. IMHO he needs to OFFICIALLY release his full birth certificate as McCain did so that rumors can be put to rest (or perhaps verified!
)

Face it folks .. these are the *cough* best *cough* Americans that the two major parties could come up with.
Both are Americans and both are lousy choices for America.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


His parents where US Citizens. Doesn't matter if he was born on the bottom of the Ocean. Hes an American.

The fact that ANYONE believe the child of US Service people serving their nation in a theater of war is not a citizens disgusts me.

Political bigotry at it's best.

(And no, I won't even be voting for McCain.. but all this Obama, McCain mudslinging is what turns over half the US Population from voting -- it's childs play.)



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Gotcha! Already read that post by DarkstromCrow. The reason I had originally posted this thread was to draw attention to the fact the New York times was now running the story.

This thread is just about dead.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


i should not have gave up so fast kleverone. you win this round.

score.

Kleverone-1
Dale-1



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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Note: The Immigration and Nationality Act states that periods abroad under the following circumstances may be counted as physical presence in the United States:

Service in the Armed Forces of the United States;
Employment with the United States Government;
Employment with an international organization as defined in Section I of the International Organizations Immunities Act.
In addition, time spent abroad as the dependent of a U.S. citizen parent in one of the three categories above is also counted as physical presence in the United States

INA: ACT 322 - Children born and residing outside the United States; conditions for acquiring certificate of citizenship


(1) any period of time during which the member of the Armed Forces is residing abroad pursuant to official orders shall be treated, for purposes of subsection (a)(2)(A), as physical presence in the United States;


food for thought..

Children born to US military citizens abroad do not recieve a naturalization certificate, because they are not naturalized they are citizens by birth, and since thier parents are considered physically present in the US while on orders abroad the children are also considered physically present in the US.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


No, Benevolent Heretic, your ignorance to law, coupled with the fact that you open your mouth when you know only half the truth, is laughable at best and at worst, insulting to those of us who are actually trying to find the truth.

The U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1 states:


No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.


So what is a natural-born citizen?

Instead of taking your word for it, and your silly outdated Wikipedia article, let's ask...
the Cornell University Law School.
www4.law.cornell.edu...


And now we will solve this thread once and for all.


U.S. CODE: TITLE 8, CHAPTER 12, SUBCHAPTER III, PART I:



The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or


(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.



Yeah.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Nice post JohnMike. Going by the Constitution, McCain qualifies and Obama does not.

BH once again is trying to divert attention from Obama's beyond highly questionable citizenship by projecting it onto McCain.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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One would imagine that this would have been brought up in 2000...

Course this only means that democrats see McCain as a threat...why is that?



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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I also suggest that you read the Naturalization Act of 1790, passed by the U.S. Congress. It's the only naturalization act I can find that has the phrase, "natural-born citizen" so it's the only other thing, aside from what's in the U.S. Code, that applies to how we define "natural-born citizen."


That any alien, being a free white person, who shall have resided within the limits and under the jurisdiction of the United States for the term of two years, may be admitted to become a citizen thereof, on application to any Common Law Court of Record, in any one of the States wherein he shall have resided for the term of one year at least, and making proof to the satisfaction of such Court, that he is a person of good character, and taking the oath or affirmation prescribed by law, to support the Constitution of the United States, which oath or affirmation such Court shall administer, and the Clerk of such Court shall record such application, and the proceedings thereon ; and thereupon such person, shall be confidered as a citizen of the United States. And the children of such person fo naturalized, dwelling within the United States, being under the age of twenty-one years at the time of such naturalization, shall alfo be confidered as citizens of the United States. And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens: Provided, That the right of citizenship shall not descend to perfons whose fathers have never been resident in the United States: Provided also, That no person heretofore proscribed by any State, shall be admitted a citizen as aforesaid, except by an act: of the Legislature of the State in which such person was proscribed.


I got this from the Harvard University Library Page Delivery Service.
pds.lib.harvard.edu...

And adapted the digital text from:
pds.lib.harvard.edu...
for ATS.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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All of these acts have effective dates and many are repealed by the following act. We're not talking about how the law reads NOW, the whole technicality upon which this story is based is that for the year John McCain was born, the law said he wasn't a natural-born citizen.



EFFECTIVE DATE: The amendments made by this section shall take effect on the date of enactment of this Act (January 28, 2007) and apply to any application for naturalization or issuance of a certificate of citizenship pending on or after such date.


It's clear that some people are a bit pissed about this and taking it personally. And don't want to delve into it further to find out what the law really is. They just want to stomp their foot and proclaim that McCain is eligible for POTUS. I just wanted to find the law that resolves this.

And to be honest, I seriously doubt we're going to find any more than Professor Chin, referenced in the OP, did. So I guess we'll just wait to see what, if anything, comes of it.

It's too bad because I would actually like to continue a reasoned debate and come to an agreement with others here regardless which way it comes out. But because some are so emotional about it, and resort to accusations and sarcasm... it seems that's not possible to do.

So, I guess we'll disagree and leave it at that.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble


i just want to make this clear i am no mccain supporter. the only reason i will vote for him is to vote aginst obama.


I find that statement very disturbing. Not because of the fact that it is Dale Gribble making that statement, but because it makes me wonder how many people are thinking just like him. This statement is spoken from a person that truly has no understanding of politics....its really sad.

To end up with McCain as president simply because people didn't want to vote for Barack. Its quite scary when you think about it.


i]Originally posted by kleverone
Ever hear of a write in?


I second that...
Here's to denying ignorance.

Also, I would like to refer to DINSTAAR's thread on the subject as I think it is a great thread and makes a wonderful point for those of you that feel like neither president is up to par.

What happened to Denying Ignorace



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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They just want to stomp their foot and proclaim that McCain is eligible for POTUS. I just wanted to find the law that resolves this


I'd like to find a law that says Obama is eligible. All laws say he is not eligible.

Your bias already puts you in a predisposition to favor an outcome that would make McCain inelgible. It is why you started the thread in the first place, to cast doubt on McCain's citizenship, when, in fact, there is no doubt.

The same cannot be said for Obama though.





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