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MCCain is not a Natural born U.S. Citizen.

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


as much as i like argueing with you im not gonna keep going in the same circles over and over. i made a claim and was proven wrong.

it still dosent change the fact that congress using their right under the 14 amendment declaired that mccain is a valid candidate. time for you to accept when you are wrong..

[edit on 15pmu92007 by DaleGribble]




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by DaleGribble
 


Who is disputing that?

from what i've seen, everything has been about the law

and not what congress wants to do.

I ask again

if congress says its okay for arnold to run for president

does it make it so?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:24 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


sure you can use it.

according to the people who make the law mccain is a valid candidate..



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
I can't wait to see the Democrats attack a war hero's citizenship because he was born in Panama, to two American citizens, while his father was serving his country. That should lose them a lot of votes!


War Hero? I'm sorry you lost me there? So because he was tortured by the enemy he is a hero? Did you go to the George Bush school of Patriotism? In my book, war and hero hardly go into the same sentence. Maybe I have a different definiton of hero than you. He was in another country trying to force democracy down it's throat. Sound familiar? It's called making a choice and suffering the consequences of your actions. I think you hand out the term Hero too liberally. Did he somehow improve the state of the world through his actions that I am unaware of?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by kleverone
 


what made mccain a hero?

he didnt willingly sacrifice anything

he coughed up secrets with no resistance

he didnt choose to get shot down

he didnt CHOOSE to stay there

and his conditions were no where near as bad as he claims.


Hero?

HOW

Im sorry llyod, but your puppy love for McCain is abundantly clear


[edit on 7/11/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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url problems sorry

it was the 2 or 3 post on the first page.

im gonna figure out how to post the link then ill get back to it..

[edit on 15pmu92007 by DaleGribble]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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So then you are saying that if congress says so

arnold shazengger (sp?)

could run for POTUS?


Funny. Even John McCain disagrees. Which is why he said we should lift the bar for non-natural-born's to run for president.


The man you are doing such a bad job of supporting is even disagreeing with you



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble
as much as i like argueing with you im not gonna keep going in the same circles over and over. i made a claim and was proven wrong.


You could have saved us alot of trouble by actually thinking first and posting second. This is a disturbing trend with you.


it still dosent change the fact that congress using their right under the 14 amendment declaired that mccain is a valid candidate. time for you to accept when you are wrong..


Congress is nothing more than a buch of spineless turds who will do and say anything as long as their creature comforts are protected, and you defend them? Same congress who today no less, helped pass a bill that protects the big Phone companies from prosecution even though they broke constitutional laws by allowing Bush to spy on Americans. Is this the America you defened? Not trying to be judgemental, just trying to understand.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


i just want to make this clear i am no mccain supporter. the only reason i will vote for him is to vote aginst obama.

i do however support the dicissons that congress makes. its their job. we appointed these people to make these choices and well that means im gonna stick with them.

weither or not arnold could be president is of no consiern at this time.

[edit on 15pmu92007 by DaleGribble]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by DaleGribble
 


I believe it is of perfect concern

you admit defeat, and for that i congratulate you

however, in your own admittance, you have proven everyone else to be strikingly right...and congress to be ...... words cannot even describe how wrong


The "immigrants cant run for POTUS' was handed down since the very founding of this country

i say

if your'e going to do away with that

you might as well throw the whole damn bill of rights out the window too.


You support congress in everything they do, huh?

Maybe ill make THAT my signature quote that i give you credit for.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by kleverone
War Hero? I'm sorry you lost me there? So because he was tortured by the enemy he is a hero?
I'd say most people would consider him a hero with a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals to his credit..


Did you go to the George Bush school of Patriotism?
"No", I didn't. Did you go to the Obama school of patriotism where you learn to criticize men who have actually served and sacrificed for their fellow countrymen?


In my book, war and hero hardly go into the same sentence. Maybe I have a different definiton of hero than you. He was in another country trying to force democracy down it's throat. Sound familiar? It's called making a choice and suffering the consequences of your actions.
It's called service to your country in my book. If a man is unwilling to fight in his country's defense, he has no right to call himself a man in my opinion. My family has a long history of military service that I'm very proud of.


I think you hand out the term Hero too liberally. Did he somehow improve the state of the world through his actions that I am unaware of?
I only use the term when I feel it's merited. His actions permitted you to sit at your keyboard, and speak badly of a man who fought for your right to disagree with him and his country. So I guess the answer to your question is "Yes"..

[edit on 7/11/08 by LLoyd45]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble

i just want to make this clear i am no mccain supporter. the only reason i will vote for his is to vote aginst obama.


Ever hear of a write in?


i do however support the dicissons that congress makes. its their job. we appointed these people to make these choices and well that means im gonna stick with them.


Regardless to weather or not they are flushing your rights down the drain? Thank God you were not part of the American Revolution. How about you pay attention to the choices being made and see if they are or are not against the law? It is thought processes like yours that make me wonder if we deserve what we get. I for one refuse this mentality and question decision making when it does not conform to constitutional standards.

They count on people like you to propgate their agenda. Good job Dale



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
"No", I didn't. Did you go to the Obama school of patriotism where you learn to criticize men who have actually served and sacrificed for their fellow countrymen?


Allow me to simplify my question: What has John McCain sacrified besides his dignity?



It's called service to your country in my book. If a man is unwilling to fight in his country's defense, he has no right to call himself a man in my opinion. My family has a long history of military service that I'm very proud of.

So you are saying that anyone who doesnt sumbit themselves to military service is not a "man" and is not a "hero" ? A hero is someone who gets looked up to for accomplishments that made better the lives of atleast one other human being.

Tell me. Who's lives are better, besides CEO's on Enron and Bear Stearns, as a consequence of John McCains actions?

American Citizens? What did he do for us? "fight for freedom" Against whom? What were the vietkong going to do to us? Throw rocks?

I only use the term when I feel it's merited. His actions permitted you to sit at your keyboard, and speak badly of a man who fought for your right to disagree with him and his country. So I guess the answer to your question is "Yes"..


so your only "meritable" trait for "mccain the hero" was that he served in the military?

....ok

still doesnt make him eligible for POTUS



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:52 PM
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Perhaps its in our best interests as a group to refer you to this article

Amazing Heroes of the United States Military


Lets highlight Bud Day. What did Bud Day do? He was a POW with McCain....so what makes the two men different?


Despite being tortured and starved throughout his imprisonment, Day refused to give his captors any information that might harm his fellow soldiers.



THAT makes a hero. Sacrifice.

Again. What did McCain sacrifice, besides his dignity?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by DaleGribble


The United States Constitution does not define the term "natural born citizen"; however, it does confer on Congress the power: "To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

source en.wikipedia.org...

sadly congress does not share your oppinion.


Let's make this clear. A Naturalized citizen is NOT AT ALL the same as a Natural-Born Citizen. In fact, they are 2 very different things.

Naturalized Citizen

NATURALIZED CITIZEN - One who, being born an alien, has lawfully become a citizen of the United States Under the constitution and laws.

He has all the rights of a natural born citizen, except that of being eligible as president or vice-president of the United States.


Your source says that the Constitution does not define "natural born citizen", but it does allow Congress to establish Naturalization (a "naturalized" citizen).

Sorry, they are not the same thing.

There are 2 "classes" of citizens. One is being a citizen by birth (Citizens and Natural born-citizens) and the other is legally becoming a citizen through the proper legal channels (naturalized).

Source



The Fourteenth Amendment mentions two types of citizenship: citizenship by birth and citizenship by law (naturalized citizens): "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by LLoyd45

I'd say most people would consider him a hero with a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals to his credit..


I've never been one to let the majority do my thinking for me, so excuse me if I disagree.


Did you go to the Obama school of patriotism where you learn to criticize men who have actually served and sacrificed for their fellow countrymen?


Not sure why you brought Obama into this, unless you see things in Black and White( No pun intended) And if by served you mean fighting a useless war that had nothing to do with the Security of the United States, then I count that up to a mindless sheep entering a war that should not have taken place to begin with. And since when is criticizing someone a crime?


It's called service to your country in my book. If a man is unwilling to fight in his country's defense, he has no right to call himself a man in my opinion. My family has a long history of military service that I'm very proud of.


Care to explain to me how any war McCain served in was in any way defending America? What Country attacked us that merited our defense?


I only use the term when I feel it's merited. His actions permitted you to sit at your keyboard, and speak badly of a man who fought for your right to disagree with him and his country. So I guess the answer to your question is "Yes"..


Please explain to me how ANYTHING McCain did allowed me to disagree with him that something my forefathers did not do several hundred years earlier. If anything he realized he was a pawn in a bigger game and is now simply trying to milk what he thinks is owed to him based on his suffering. We all have opinions and that is all they are.






[edit on 11-7-2008 by kleverone]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Allow me to simplify my question: What has John McCain sacrified besides his dignity?
Five years of his life for one thing. Can you tell what Barack Obama has sacrificed for his alleged fellow Americans? He won't even show respect for the flag or say the Pledge of Allegiance without media arm-twisting..



So you are saying that anyone who doesnt sumbit themselves to military service is not a "man" and is not a "hero" ? A hero is someone who gets looked up to for accomplishments that made better the lives of atleast one other human being.
There are certainly many kinds of heroes, John McCain happens to be the patriotic kind.


Tell me. Who's lives are better, besides CEO's on Enron and Bear Stearns, as a consequence of John McCains actions?
Every man who served under him,
every man that was held captive with him by the Viet Cong, and every man, woman, and child in this country who he served in their place.


American Citizens? What did he do for us? "fight for freedom" Against whom? What were the vietkong going to do to us? Throw rocks?
He fought, so you didn't have to. I think any Vietnam vet will tell you they did a lot more than throw stones at them Andrew.


so your only "meritable" trait for "mccain the hero" was that he served in the military?
I'm not a McCain supporter, but I think that's enough by anyone's standards.


....ok

still doesnt make him eligible for POTUS
I don't care one way or the other, but I think you won't hear a peep out of Obama about it, or any other Democrat for that matter.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by LLoyd45
 


A.) Why are you making this about "Obama vs. McCain" ??

This is about McCains "allged" hero status.

McCain didnt choose to sacrifice 5 years of his life.

I give him my RESPECT for having to go through it

but a hero doesnt just "deal with it" and move on

a hero takes the excrament sandwich they are dealth and turns it into filet mignon, and accomplishes something with grim and dire situations.

John McCain sang his secrets like me in the shower every morning before work (and im not very good at singing, btw)

He chirped and whistled, flipped and yipped for his captors.

His fellow inmate, Bud Day, however did not.

Bud Day is a hero. Bud Day made a sacrifice for a good cause.

John McCain was just there.

BIG difference



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
This is about McCains "allged" hero status.


Actually, it's about McCain's Presidential eligibility.


Maybe someone should start a thread about whether or not he's a "hero". But I think it's a pretty subjective argument.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


you're right, BH.

I am ashamed


This is not about him being a hero, and i am 1/2 responsible for derailing this thread.


The convo is about McCains status as being ineligible for POTUS, according to a LAWYER...and has nothign to do with rahter or not he's a hero.



It would seem that a lawyer would knwo more about this than any of us. Should we not take him at his word until he's proven wrong?






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