Banking regulators close IndyMac

reply to post by mybigunit


This obsession over paper money is meaningless. All currency has no value. You can back it up with silver, gold, platinum, or bottles of coca-cola. It still has no innate value. A bar of gold only has value because I believe it does, the same reason why a 1 dollar bill has value.

The federal reserve is a quasi-public institution, as its directors are appointed by the government. Controlling the percent at which money is loaned out is not controlling the value of money. Nor does the federal reserve control the volumes of money in circulation - it only controls the volumes of money it lends.

I do not want the federal reserve to be a public institution. With all of the conspiracy theories about the government on this board, why do any of you federal reserve conspiracy theorists want something to be even MORE controlled by the government? Or has no one moved past the conspiracy theory to think about the consequences of this?

As for you, this all matters not to me. I'm just here to profit off it. But its not a conspiracy...its just how the economy works.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Oh I know, speaking truth to conspiracy theorists elicits an almost rabid foaming at the mouth response. I expect it, but it never ceases to amaze me how no one can address it by themselves.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


We can fine individually (not that you'd listen). The heat is on and the truth is rising to the top. Thats all.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Swingarm]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by mybigunit

 

This obsession over paper money is meaningless. All currency has no value. You can back it up with silver, gold, platinum, or bottles of coca-cola. It still has no innate value. A bar of gold only has value because I believe it does, the same reason why a 1 dollar bill has value.

The federal reserve is a quasi-public institution, as its directors are appointed by the government. Controlling the percent at which money is loaned out is not controlling the value of money. Nor does the federal reserve control the volumes of money in circulation - it only controls the volumes of money it lends.

I do not want the federal reserve to be a public institution. With all of the conspiracy theories about the government on this board, why do any of you federal reserve conspiracy theorists want something to be even MORE controlled by the government? Or has no one moved past the conspiracy theory to think about the consequences of this?

The directors are chosen by the government yes but who creates the list for the government to choose from?

By controlling the money being lent they do control the volume going into circulation. On top of this the government does in a sense also because they spend all sorts of money they do not have so what happens? They create it and with interest. I think if you really studied how the fractional reserve system works it would pretty much answer your questions but you are right nothing has value per se there I agree but if there is less of something generally gives it more value which is why gold is more valuable than silver and so on a so forth. I used to be a big gold backed currency guy but I dont even know if I want that anymore. I want a government issued currency at no interest similar to what is shown here



But when you create a lot of something and there isnt a demand for that something it tends to kill the value of that something and that is the situation we face. We have a lot of dollars out there and the "faith" or "demand" isnt as high as it used to be.

Also just to note Im for small government as you know but the government should have 3 roles. Coining and setting value of currency, national defense, and infrastructure. Everything else like entitlements and what not should be left to the states. There are some thing private companies should do and some things government should do that is how I feel.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by mybigunit


Yet again, has ANYONE thought beyond the conspiracy here? What exactly do you want, complete government control over the federal reserve? The same government who is accused of all manner of evil, and who beyond the conspiracy theory madness on this board is actually known to be inefficient and ineffective? You now WANT complete government control? That is what you are saying, if the federal reserve is so horrible. I don't want that. Never will. The government should have as little control as possible.

Yet again. Nothing has value. No money has value. No money has ever had any value. It has value because we believed it to have value. We can back the currency with gold all day, it has no more value now than it did before - I'm glad your rethinking that.

You want currency issued under direct government control without the assistance of any quasi-public institution? Then you want Zimbabwe. I'll, again, say no thanks. Also, what is it with this constant myth about interest? The government pays no net interest to the federal reserve beyond operating costs.

Around and around we go...


[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

Fact: US Mint coins the money and decides its value. In line with what the Constitution requires. No matter how many people pile on to try to disprove the facts, they remain, despite your desire to create conspiracies about them.
[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

As with you I only present the facts.

The only currency in exchange in the United States legally is Federal Reserve Bank notes (don't believe me, check your wallet). These notes are printed by the US Mint as per constitional requirements yes, but only are released when banks wish to replace old notes or there is a requirement for new ones because their cash on hand is low (and its the day before payday) or they are below the minimum limits that the Fed has set. (wikipedia:Federal Reserve Notes

There is no conspiracy about how the value of the dollar is affected by decisions of the the Federal Reserve, our government, and yes, even us. The value is determined by a market of people buying and selling securities of the governments. This exchange market boils down to a simple supply v. demand. The more supply of dollar based securites, the less the price will be because there will not be a high enough demand to maintain a stable price level. The opposite is also true. The major x in the equation is that it is heavily affected by the sentiment of the person/nation to that nation. The more people do not like a nation, the more unlikely they are not going to buy their securities, causing demand to drop. (I'm horrible at explaining this, but the wikipedia site for it does better Factors affected currency trading)

As has been said: Try again.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Yet again, has ANYONE thought beyond the conspiracy here? What exactly do you want, complete government control over the federal reserve? The same government who is accused of all manner of evil, and who beyond the conspiracy theory madness on this board is actually known to be inefficient and ineffective? You now WANT complete government control? That is what you are saying, if the federal reserve is so horrible. I don't want that. Never will. The government should have as little control as possible.

Yet again. Nothing has value. No money has value. No money has ever had any value. It has value because we believed it to have value. We can back the currency with gold all day, it has no more value now than it did before - I'm glad your rethinking that.

You want currency issued under direct government control without the assistance of any quasi-public institution? Then you want Zimbabwe. I'll, again, say no thanks. Also, what is it with this constant myth about interest? The government pays no net interest to the federal reserve beyond operating costs.

Around and around we go...


[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

I dont want complete government control over the reserve I want the reserve gone as in cya later. The government should issue and set the value of money. I agree with you government should have very few jobs thats why I edited above to show you how small I want. I have people tell me all the time my government will never exist. Let me tell you if my government existed there would be 0 taxes not one dime. You should really watch that video above on the interest free money I put up there it really is an interesting concept.

reply to post by Sir Solomon


Not a problem with me - the notes are coined and their value determined by the Treasury Department. Makes no difference who issues it.

In fact, I'm quite happy the government is not issuing the money. If the conspiracy faithful thought beyond the conspiracy and into the implications of it, they would have the government take complete control over everything the federal reserve currently does. The same people who tell us not to trust the government under any circumstances. You cannot have it both ways. If you trust the government to completely take over the federal reserve and somehow not turn this country into the next Zimbabwe with 100,000%+ inflation, then the government isn't as evil as you claim, which throws into question the basis for most of the federal reserve/government collusion theories.

Anyways this has been fun but this has run its course. Ya'll have fun. Let the lynching and the insulting of the non-conspiracy faithful begin!

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness


Anyways this has been fun but this has run its course. Ya'll have fun. Let the lynching and the insulting of the non-conspiracy faithful begin!

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Onward to the next battle. Where we meeting? The old oak tree or the bike rack? or even better the flag pole.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness

Anyways this has been fun but this has run its course

It's not a course it's an infinite loop You should really watch the video provided by bigunit just for giggles

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
All currency has no value. You can back it up with silver, gold, platinum, or bottles of coca-cola. It still has no innate value. A bar of gold only has value because I believe it does, the same reason why a 1 dollar bill has value.

A bar of Gold has no intrinsic value?

It takes measurable units of resources and labor to produce that bar of Gold (exploration/resource definition - mining - smelting - refining - transporting - minting - storing).......as it was in the beginning...is now...and ever shall be.......world without end...Amen.

Federal Reserve Note

Please note the word Note...i.e...debt instrument...liability...an obligation collateralized by the sum-total of the US economy. Are you employed?...do you consume? Then that collateral is you my friend...your labor...your taxes...your property.

Gold is no-ones liability...requires no counter-party......could care less what either one of us believes.

It takes measurable units of resources and labor to produce that bar of Gold (exploration/resource definition - mining - smelting - refining - transporting - minting - storing).......as it was in the beginning...is now...and ever shall be.......world without end...Amen.


So does a car, and look how they depreciate....

Gold only has value to those that will buy it. In situation X, some will love gold....further down the food chain, a box of .22 shells or an axe will have higher value.....02c

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Pinktip]

reply to post by ALightinDarkness

Fact: US Mint coins the money and decides its value. In line with what the Constitution requires. No matter how many people pile on to try to disprove the facts, they remain, despite your desire to create conspiracies about them. The Federal Reserve refunds all interest loaned, minus its operating cost (surprise, even if the government did this itself it would have its own operating cost), directly back to the treasury. Our net cost? Zero.

Did you slip this in after we finished?

Yes we disscussed this before.It's only partly true remember? Most of the money is repaid on the interest of the national debt as dictated by the fed's charter that say's payments in excess of there operating expenses will be returned.However the LEGAL banking CARTEL uses tax dollars to pay 100% of it's expenses with no real checks and balances as to the nature of the expenses.Whats left over goes back to the tresury.Where the mother load comes from is not money out of nothing for the government, it's from money created out of nothing by the commercial banks for loans.So to say wow is'nt the fed a generous bunch of fellas returning all that money, lets not forget the fact the huge amounts of cash moving into member banks in interest on nothing on the consumer and commercial loans, your not saying we should just overlook this are you?


[edit on 13-7-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Swingarm]

I don't want governmental control over the fed, I want congress to run the treasury department, and not have a federal reserve at all!!!!!

That's they way it was prior to 1913, and guess what........there was no income tax either.

Since the inception of the fed, we have seen the value of a dollar drop by over 97%!!!

Now we are reaping the whirlwind of a fractal reserve system. Our faces are over the barrel, and in that barrel is 10 kg of C-4, about to blow our faces clean off.

If you want to know what happens next, check this out....

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Sir Solomon

For all the talk of the National debt, the average American Citizen knows next to nothing about it. For every debt, you must have a debtor (the American Government) and a debtee (The Federal Reserve) to whom the debt is owed. You have just learned more about the National debt than 9/10th's of the Nation. To whit, the National debt is owed to the private institution known as The Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 gave the power to coin and regulate the Nations money supply to a private concern that would operate on a for-profit basis. This was clearly a Constitutional violation of Article I, which specifically conveyed this power to Congress and Congress only. To illustrate how the Nation's money is created at profit; the United States Treasury is still responsible for the printing of the Nations paper currency. However, under the provisions of the Federal Reserve Act, it is not considered to be "money" after the Treasury has minted it. Instead, this paper is sold to the Federal Reserve at the rate of slightly more than $20.00 per 1 million bills, regardless of denomination. How this paper becomes "money" is for the Federal government to borrow it from the Federal Reserve. But this money, since the Federal Reserve is a private for-profit organization, is borrowed at interest. Did you catch that? The Treasury Department (that we pay for) prints the bills, sells them to the Federal Reserve for next to nothing, then the Government borrows back this paper at face value plus interest! It is the principle plus interest on the Nation's money supply that is termed: The National Debt. In addition to the interest on the "money" loaned, interest is accrued upon the interest itself (compound interest), helping to farther inflate the National Debt. And the real trick of the game the Federal Reserve plays, it's master coup upon the American people, is that the debt CAN NEVER BE PAID OFF because the interest amount is never created.

political-resources.com...

Gettin' through yet?

reply to post by downtown436


Good post. I like the link on Hyperinflation its good people get to know this term because there is a very HIGH chance this is and will be playing a part of our lives.

I will be in the Forex, betting the Dollar takes a nose dive against World currencies.

Yep, I'm right behind you. I just have to decide if it will be against the EUR/USD or USD/JPY.

Indy Mac should have been shut down a long long time ago.

I won't get into specifics but they have been screwing over developers over the past year, trying to get the loans to go bad and acquire massive amounts of assets.

Indy Mac has been abusing the mortgage system for years. Anyone working at McDonald's with horrible credit can get an interest only loan on a new house in any Los Angeles suburb using nothing more than "stated" income. They have been churning the market to the 7th level of hell while all their loan officer and broker pals have been making millions.

I personally know many people that have been laid off at Indy Mac and are now going to lose a good chunk of their pensions and 401k's. These are people who never would approve of such lousy lending standards but were forced to for job protection.

And last of all, these asshats owe me thousands of dollars in inspection fees and now that the feds are taking over, I honestly don't think I'll ever see that money. If I ever get called to court, I am going to sing like a bird, but then I don't think that even that will help.

Indy Mac is the perfect mascot for the fiat money system and all the crooks working behind it.

The currency/car comparison is kind-of-a futile pursuit...besides, it would require the capacity to grasp the concept that cars depreciate with age....lose utility value in the face of rising maintenance costs. One outstanding characteristic of Gold is it's durability.

Gold will always retain value. On the other hand...un-backed, un-redeemable paper, historically falls victim to the inevitable inflatonary habits of it's purveyors. Always subject to mean-reversion...ultimately worth less than printing/minting costs...or...the labor inputs associated with making digital computer entries

"Gold only has value to those that will buy it."

Ah! I see someone has a profound sense for identifying the obvious.

Yes, and tonight "those" are willing to buy it for $960+

Originally posted by whiteraven
In my humble opinion even if it gets as bad as the Great Depression we will still survive.

We survived reconstruction, we survived the Great Depression no reason not to survive and get rich now!

They didnt have people stealing in the great depression. Atleast not a lot.
You are going to see chaos. Im afraid people just arent raised right anymore. More drugs on the street, more guns and more people = OH ****! Just wait.