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Banking regulators close IndyMac

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posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 





To me the guy is a parking genius. I find it funny also that Ron Paul brings up a replacement for the FED and Frank responds "No Thanks" Why would they need a replacement. They all get greased by the FED so nothing WILL change.


It's a sad situation. It's absolutly amazing to me that this charade has gone on and on. I ordered a case against the fed by Murry Rothbard from mises.org a couple days back .Thats a great site.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Swingarm]




posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 09:43 PM
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double post



[edit on 12-7-2008 by Swingarm]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by TruthWithin
 


Gee, I guess that is why after EVERY OTHER bank failure we've had there was massive disinvestment from foreign countries and utter economic apocol...err...wait, thats right, there wasn't.

But never mind that. Commence running around in circles screaming hysterically.


[edit on 12-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


You're right! Because it happens all the time. 3 MASSIVE banks and lenders on the verge of going belly directly on the heels of two of the largest investment firms getting bailed out by the government up is a normal situation.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 10:26 PM
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The only 'fix' the fed and treasury are capable of is Inflation. Anyone who does not understand what Inflation can do should study a little History. As stated before, it is a tax, taxation without representation at its worst.

The only problem with this tax is that it does have limits. Being a 'hidden' tax it has been favored by the banking crooks for a hundred years. But, greed has lifted the curtain and the tax will be so heavy that its 'hidden' nature is in jeopardy because high taxation of any kind always brings social unrest.

The gov't got in bed with the fed and now they will be blamed for the absolute destruction of the middle class. You reap what you sow. If you make deals with loan sharks, expect to get burned.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by HimWhoHathAnEar]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 07:18 AM
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I went into a couple of the local banks where I had some funds this past week and asked for some information about their "health." These are not publically traded companies and so I wanted to know basic stuff like what types of lending practices they have been involved in, how much subprime lending, money on hand etc, etc. I am not a financial person, but I was just wanting some assurance. Anyhow, both banks said I was the first person to ask them such questions, and after stumbling around from manager to manager, office to office, none of these banks could answer these basic questions!

The sheeple will surely get slaughtered as everyone out there is convinced that Uncle Sugar will fix everything.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


Mmmm as stated please read my post. I qualified in the UK market.

Your Sources Please?

The difference between here and the US is again quite staggering. I don't think you truly know the REGULATED nature of the industry in the UK, well obviously not.

Besides Medicine(to include social services etc) and Law Practice Financial Advise in the UK is the only fully REGULATED industry.

That makes it a very very different kettle of fish than the US qualifications. I wont caste aspersions on the US qualifications and easy to get they may be.

You state that "anyone can do it" and also that "do it yourself"

Mmmm a bit difficult as we have a system of "grandfathering" and "shadowing" where after you have finished your 4 year course! (yep 4 years easy mate! with a pass mark over 70% in EACH MODULE) you are watched and shadowed giving your advise to clients, every piece of work you do has to then be "signed off" by a "grandfather" figure. If in the future any of your advice is deemed as being unsuitable that person who signed off your advice is in for loosing their license too!

As stated the industry is regulated, there is a set legal procedure that must be carried out with each client. Each piece of advise has to carry a detailed letter of explanation to the client, explaining why you have chosen those products, investments or vehicles (a term for how the investment is carried) for there particular case. Why (using maths to prove so) this is their best option from every other type of product available in the UK. If at any time in the future someone can show that it was not the best investment, advice or product for the client you can go to jail, or be sued for the money lost. The "grandfather" figure who eventually has to write to the institute of Bankers (of who you have to apply and be accepted on the strength of the above, if they say yes(not always police checks, credit checks work history checks etc) you can then start giving advice without any one checking it first.

4 years, every piece of work regulated and checked, liable for losses personally if the work is not correct, other people using their name and career to date to allow you to move forward.

Yep easy mate simple, anyone can do it

again WTF are you on about?

You may know advisors in the US but I think you are getting a tad confused by the status of "whole market" advise and "sales reps" my friend You can get a business card, and a name "financial advisor"with a global firms badge, but you only offer their products or services, or one from panel of different providers. But it is not "advice" a very different thing entirely.

Now In the UK to use your SEC (for stocks and again if you knew about this to state anyone can get it is ridiculous only about 15% of the average western population has a higher enough percentile on math to get in!) in the UK again this is different to an employee sales man for a bank, you have to give "advice" to clients on the investments

It is regarded in the UK as the same as a High Honors degree.

My first degree was in mental health nursing Bsc Hons early 20;s then changed industry and Bsc environmental management & Engineering (hons) I specialized in the built environment, so I have also given advice on the Funding and costing of the infrastructure projects of major Plc's.

Having gained experience of corporate finance wanted to give personal advice, not just compete for tenders, so I went then into financial services.

You say you have 3 Degrees really? what did you read and what disciplines subjects? you must be well over 30 years old? to have completed 3.

This type of advice (personal financial) is the one where most of the real global wealth is too with people such as Fund Managers, they have a responsibility to their clients or "fund" and they certainly arnt going to play "short" games. These are the sort of people who have real power in the economy not "$1000 day traders".

These type of people who can move billions of £ sterling from one stock to another, are currently absolutely sh***tting themselves, they are responsible fro the pensions of millions of people, and cant deliver at the moment with low risks to date, they certainly arnt going to take any more.

Like I said im sorry light but your reply to my post, the defensive nature of your reply, lack of sources, obvious lack of in depth on the ground reality of financial services, and advice just back up what I originally posted.

"Short" "long" etc its gone past that, I truly hope you make some money from this, I have enjoyed helping people make money in the past and increasing their wealth. But please like other posters have said be aware the money you are making is Fiat money at the moment.

Be aware the financial markets are collapsing really and NOW.

Be aware that the ex head of the IMF and also an Ex Fed Governor said on the BBC Friday "we are in uncharted territory, and have all been within the system caught with our pants down. I fear that now we are slowly waking up to the facts of whats happening globally, even if we knew how to react correctly it is too late!"

The money you are making like said is Fiat money. whats it really worth? how much will it be worth in 4 weeks time? will the dollar be at £3? maybe so I can show you information will may mean it will go there, just maybe. Any gains then made are lost.

The only gains now from the bears point of view is at the bottom in prime luxury commercial and real estate, but not yet, let the best Manhattan and London properties drop by another 40% ish then buy, them, but to look for the gain over the next 10 - 20 years, not this week or tomorrow.

Truly light if you want the quick buck get out of USA get into china India, don't use US dollars, opportunities are there real ones, long term sustained growth. Probably a lot less risky than any US stock trades at the moment.

All of this is just pie in the sky too, if for example the Chinese or Taiwanese decide to do something unusual with the Trillions of Dollars they have invested in American Securities (government) the dollar might have to be replaced because it would probably be worth around 25pence a Dollar, so hyperinflation within the American Zone would be the result.

This is well known and has been forecast for may years. Stagflation a Keynesian (im sure you know lots about him? if not do please read for my "easy" qualifications I had to critique his critique of the marshal plan after the second world war) description can be observed now.

The issue is the traditional economies the g8 and the like are now in negative growth, raising inflation and high debt.

The developing world is growing though, further pushing up inflation but staggering the effects of the wests demise. this leads to stagflation, which leads to recessions which eventually, say 3-4 years from now when India China catch up with the worries of the Developed economies, they fall or recess too, but a lot lot quicker than the developed countries. So you then have a situation whereby the US and euro stocks and economies should be rebounding back (as in cycles), but when they are about to raise again after the "correction" he rest of the developing countries crash quickly and uniformly. Now the US and euro cant react to the second crash as all the tricks from the central banks and policy makers have been used already to limit the US and Euro crash. Those economies already battered at their lowest with no control left over the rest of the world would then truly implode.

This is seeming a more and more likely scenario re the world over the next 3-5 years.

This without a blockage of the Straights of Hormuz, another Catrina or pandemic, truly the world is looking over a cliff and holding on by piece of string.

Contd for information....



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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Stagflation is an economic illness wherein inflation combined with stagnation lock a society into slow-to-negative economic growth and rising unemployment, invariably including recession

Blanchard, Olivier (2000). Macroeconomics


Keynes came up with the model during the financial collapses of Europe post and pre world wars, especially in regard to the new “fiat” money and the dropping of the Gold Standard in the UK.

Unusually so Wiki has a very well written piece on this and the contributor is correct, it saves me from digging out my old books and Work.


John Maynard Keynes wrote in The Economic Consequences of the Peace that governments printing money and using price controls were causing a combination of inflation and economic stagnation in Europe after World War I.

Stagflation was also a very serious macroeconomic problem in the 1970s. In contrast to central bank responses to the oil price spike of the 1970s where similar policies were pursued on both sides of the Atlantic, the 21st Century began with America going one way to fight recession and Europe going the other way to fight inflation.

StagFlation & keynes

Now really cant say this enough please do listen to this very informative interview with people in the know, who run the worlds largest financial institutions, the below quote from the BBC pro gramme indeed shows that the above is taking place NOW


In the past a sharp slowdown in the world's biggest economy would have brought lower global demand, a decline in growth and so lower commodity prices and reduced inflation.
We are witnessing the opposite today.
So does this mean that a fundamental shift in global economic influence is under way?
Big emerging countries, like China and India, do indeed seem to have become decoupled from the long-dominant US.

But have they also been transformed into locomotives of the world economy?

In discussion with some of the world's leading analysts - including two former chief economists of the International Monetary Fund and the current chief economist of the World Bank, who is Chinese - Mr Wolf
assesses these hugely important questions.

Mr Wolf concludes that decoupling is real: emerging countries are able to grow quickly even though the US and other western countries are in a slowdown.

The experts on this current situation BBC

The global balance has indeed shifted.

Now as said the real shakers and movers are Fund Managers and also the Government security Traders, this is where the real problem really lies, as Government securities are sold by Governments to finance debt.

As anyone who has a bad credit history has like the US currently, knows its harder to get people to lend you money, and it always comes at a higher cost.

You think the curent problems by persoanl sub prime crash is bad as we are now seeing. well thin about this the US Uk etc are now SUB PRIME as countries, will they default, howcan the world "write" off Trillions and Trillions of $ in debt?

Simple answer, fiat Money leading to Stagflation then hyperinfaltion in some parts, or a NEW Currency. This would lend support to the NWO fears of centralisation.

There has always been a unwritten rule in Security trading, especially if bought by countries. You buy them say china, but hold them, we will redeem buy them back later, but America has not bought any securities back for a long time.

The Chinese and large security holders are panicking, the same as the Recent run in the Us on the Bank, they want to know their money is safe. The government of the USA is selling its debt to like China with a promise to “buy back” or redeem the value of the security if they cant be sold elsewhere, so therefore don't sell them hold on. This has always been the unwritten rule in large bond trading. Not anymore!

People don't trust the US anymore though, how can the government pay back the securities? The US government and Population is both massively over debted now, the economy is slowing, the securities are in dollars which is dropping quickly, they might panic and sell “short” like you are on about.

Truly this would change th world economic situation and probably lead to the Keynesian horror described above.

The "securitaistion" of personal debt especially in regard to sub prime debt, in the US caused a lot of the current problems. Now it seems that a similair underwriting mistake has been made with government securities, and if one coutry makes a run on US Government debt as apposed to personal debt, well a run on the FED.

Have you ever really considered or thought about the consequesnces of this rapidly approaching reality?

History is a good yardstick, look at the gold standard and the cause of the second world War.

C span, bloomberg, FTSE 100 blah blah blah. The people in the know anyhow look at the S&P 500 and funds, securities (bonds) and commodities, moodies and history etc not the Dow industrial average, or FTSE.

Hope to have guided some on the truth of this and where we currently are.

Please U2U me with any queries on further reading , research, sources or just questions on the subject generally.

Light again WTF are you on about?

Here is a Report by the US government on the current fears of the above and Securites holdings around the world.


Given its relatively low savings rate, the U.S. economy depends heavily on foreign capital inflows from countries with high savings rates (such as China) to helppromote growth and to fund the federal budget deficit etc.


CRS Report to Congress Chinas Holdings of Us Securities (bonds)

Sources Light, is the report to congress ok for you? keynes? Wolf?

What have you been on about?

Kind Regards

Elf.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by MischeviousElf]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


I read this last night (it was a very good post btw.) So this morning I powered up my pc, signed onto Firefox, and low and behold, on my MSM homepage, was an add from the FDIC.

Man they got that up fast. It warns protection limits. This is going to really bad Monday. The stock market is going to be hit hugely.

Time to buy some gold.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by phineasJwhoopie
reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Time to buy some gold.


Up until around 1 month ago its what I have been stating to everyone to do. I did a thread in early 2005 saying where the proce of oil would be now and futures on that and Gold was where to go...

Of course if i was being partisan and non political/personal/ a very good place in the stock market at the moment unfortunately is security firms and defence
i would advise a mix of those with some explained below in a portfolio at the moment, if it was a client with no ethical input into their judgement process.

There is money to be made if you dont mind civilins blood on your $£ or dont mind helping start WW3 as always, like George bush's grandfather a lot of money can made by the world problems, and the devil and his freinds are actively doing soo!

PhineasJWhoopie I think maybe gold might suffer from a collapse itself, not a long term one but it may dip quite a bit over the next 12 months suprisingly... though I would say the 12 moth to 36 month looks very good so for a investor with lots of spare cash its good, probably the best holdings.

For the avergae guy though who cant take another loss now and needs spmething for a fastish return its a bit unstable in immediate timings of glaobal power change and economic reoganisation.

In addition to this it is usually priced in $ lol, so like th gains on oil now they are offset by a devalued currency, you might see rises on your value holdings but if you try and change them into another currency then any gains, after tax, broker fees etc will probably be gone, even maybe a loss.. This is my reason for caution here.

Also the rising middle classes in INdia (the 2nd largest population in the world), who have a real "thing" for gold has fuelled a large percentage of its scarcity agianst supply in the last 2-3 years, therefore rising the proces.

With current inflation in india at 12% plus and (truly ungovernment economic spin is around late teens to 20%) these novou Riche in India are seeing their wealth drop in Real terms by at least 10$ in every hundred every month!

This coupled with the nature of this rising tiger economy, (as apposed to china which is manufacturing based) being a "service" led economy at present, and mainly servicing to large western Corporations and clients.

Who are all the credit card and banking Call Centres in india sub contract out there services too? who has the products and services and credit to let them arrange, administer and sell?

Less customers here, less investemnt in Comapny growth such as software etc, again a service aspect of the indian economy, a real slow down in the Indian economy is more than likely.

India as explained is a seperate situation to China so the effects will be deeper and more pronounced, indeed I predict the indian Economy will probably reach its part in the world stagflation situation as i pointed out in my previosu posts around 12-24 montsh before chinas real recession, so say around 9 monhs time from now maybe 1 yr 2 at most, then 1 -2 yrs later will go the chineses into recession. By then as explained in depth in my previous posts the West economies will be in depression.

Think about it if you are loosing 10% or maybe 20% of your entire wealth month on month, wages are not going up to meet this. Your company is paid in dolaars by your clients (dropping agin quickly) and you fear what is happening, will you have a business next year.... well these guys certainly then are not going to be spending any money on luxuries like gold, which they have been doing in massive amounts over the last 3-5 years.

This alone believ it or not is what I believe will affect the price of gold (as well because the Indians like good quality high % pure gold unlike 9 to 18ct western trash). Another factor is with many people(western investors) trying to get their gains out from the last few years, as its all they have gained in, and now need to stop foreclosure on their homes! refloat their business or kids university fees, they need that gold in hard currency to survive well the result is obvious.

Many people investors seeling or cashing in their reserves, a large percentage of gloabl demand will drop away in India nearly overnight, so as said above I expect a fluctuation over the short term 12 month to 18 months but over the long term you are correct totally.

Fine Art, Food Futures, Alternative Technologies seem the only things I would look at and gold as above, on its futures not price now!

Njoy I know ive been a bit technical, ive tried to keep things simple as possible, and long winded in this page, but this discussion warrants it. I had to bring my truth and expertise to this subject to ATS as a member, so no hard feelings light eh? I am only worried about you lot and dont want anyone getting bad information at the moment.

Kind regards,

Elf

Written quickly on fly talking to like 3 people, sorry for spelling or gramah NO time first SUNNY day in Uk for nearly a WEEK yipee out into the sun for me!



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


I've looked at the "requirements" and am not impressed - not that my opinion matters - but again it is you that continually keeps banging me over the head with your "qualifications." I'd also like to point out the obvious - as the UK/US systems are so different, exactly how are you a qualified expert on the US economy over anyone else? Your not.

Then, you seem to have an obsession with degrees. What is your obsession with this? What does this have to do with the topic? Bachelor's degrees are handed out like candy in the US and the UK. I have two as well - both summa cum laude (highest honors) - and a masters degree. I'm working on a PhD, in government, so I would know a little bit about how the government interferes with the private market (the topic of this thread). However, this does not make me an expert anymore than it makes you an expert, but you have got to stop pulling it out like it somehow makes you more intelligent. My age does not matter, but I am 22. I began college at 16, took class overloads every year, and worked 40-80 hours a week. But again this is NOT RELEVANT TO THE TOPIC so I have no idea why you keep on about it.

I had to laugh out loud - literally - when you started talking about pensions. I worked as a management and budget analyst for one of the largest government retirement systems in the United States just last year. I still work for them on a contract basis, as I am now full time in a PhD program and can no longer keep up my previous full-time workload. There has been no hysteria, no running around in circles, in fact, everyone is quite content because the financial analysts noticed this trend and found it an opportune way to make money for pensioners. I was on a conference call last week with an association of retirement systems, and there was no economic doom from any of the investment analysts. As these are all government analysts, and very conservative, if there were any hint of impending apocalypse, they'd already be running for the hills.

You have presented no evidence but a long rambling post, then challenge me to provide evidence. All you've done is quoted from a economic textbook the definition of stagflation and then completely failed to provide any evidence for it. I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way. Nearly everything you said is wrong - I just used the pension example as the obvious one since I have personal experience with it daily.

What you are doing is FUD: strategically trying to bring fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Your attempting to create a climate of doom to support your views, but its manufactured.

Sources:

Islam, R., Djankov, S, & C. McLiesh. 2002. The Right to Tell: The Role of Mass Media in Economic Development. New York: World Bank Publications.

You should particularly read the chapter on the strategic use of the media to make the markets perform hysterically on both the irrational exuberance and FUD levels. Your trying to do the former, but it can be manipulated both ways.

Risk, Fear, and Control: Deconstructing the Discourses of New Labour's Economic Policy. 2002. Space and Polity, 6(1): 25-47.

A peer reviewed paper looking at how the very perspective you just tried to proclaim as "truth" is in reality a political party manipulated view of the economy by preying on fear and doubt in the population.

And the peer reviewed research (not textbooks) just goes on and on and on - and it is all against you. Care to try again?


[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


Thank you for that articulate and insightfull post. So based on what your saying, a country like Canada, that relies heavily on natural resources, can we expect to follow the US economy fairly quickly?

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Swingarm]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by MischeviousElf
 


Hi Elf

Good post a lot of thought went into it and a ton of typing. There are a few things I do and dont exactly agree on but that isnt why Im writing. Im writing in reference to the degrees. Does having all these degrees automatically make one and expert and do you have to have degrees to make you an expert?

The reason why I bring this up is because I dont have any degrees. In fact Im a highschool dropout but I know our economy and money so well that I have been offered jobs at places like Franklin Templeton and Citibank. I had to turn them down because I own my own company that I started at the age of 21 from the ground up and still own to this day at the age of 26. I dont doubt that education from universities help but Im willing to bet that self education (like in my case) is just as good if not better for you will not get any bias that may come from hearing it from a certain teacher. Maybe Im wrong?



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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IndyMac is now one of the safest banks in the country. Ownership has switched hands from some of the stupidest most risk taking management to the most conservative management (the FDIC) in existence. I have a CD at IndyMac, and while I'll be able to pull it out Monday penalty free I'm leaving it in until it expires - its a great rate at a extremely safe bank now.

Of course, I predict mass media cameras showing up at IndyMac branches across the country in the morning, with reporters sticking microphones in peoples faces and saying "Aren't you scared? Have you lost everything? How tragic!" More fear mongering, as usual. The media is determined to create a panic here, and will stop at nothing until they get one. And then ATS is going to pick up on it and join in the hysteria, following the mass media like a zombie army. Its the circle of life


The media wants to induce a bank run, and they are going to stop at nothing to get it. I find it funny how ATS members claim to know the mass media tricks and yet most are following their propaganda orders in complete lock step.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


Your think the media will be to blame for the downfall of a fractional banking system? This clearly illustrates your indoctrinated views of the banking system.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by Swingarm
 


You think the fractional reserve system is to blame for an economic recession? This clearly illustrates your indoctrinated and conspiracy propagandized views on the subject.

Please do your research. I've provided several cites to peer reviewed sources about this already. Federal reserve conspiracy blogs is not research.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


The legalized bank fraud cartel's peer reviewed sources just illustrate how deeply intrenched this fraud is.Your sources are by no means any better than mine.This is the truest conspiracy on this board.The Federal Reserve needs to be abolished. It's time compound interest started working for the people instead of raping them of time that could be put to use creating somthing for themselves instead making small group of elite masters of the universe.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
IndyMac is now one of the safest banks in the country. Ownership has switched hands from some of the stupidest most risk taking management to the most conservative management (the FDIC) in existence.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


Hmmm sounds borderline socialist or even communistic dont you think? Being happy that private companies are being taken over by the government? On top of that allowing our tax payer dollars to be used to do it?



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:57 PM
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reply to post by Swingarm
 


See, this is what happens when you don't do your research and take everything from conspiracy blogs as the gospel truth. The banking system is neither illegal or a cartel - as we can see from the many, MANY banks who have failed (how could they if they were a true cartel where they could control everything?):

www4.fdic.gov...

My my, 3,555 bank failures or take overs since the FDIC began. Someones sleeping at the switch at this illegal cartel! I wonder how all of these elite people that you fantasize about remain elite with this many failures! Someone get the Godfather in there to fix this!

By the way, as the facts show, the "compound interest" is repaid to the government, minus operating expenses.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by mybigunit
 


As I previously said, the FDIC creates a moral hazard. However, since its not going to go out of existence anytime soon, why should I not benefit from it? After all, lots of sheep are going to panic and run around in circles screaming hysterically, someone should profit.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Swingarm
 


Absolutely right Swingarm, the Federal Reserve is Unconstitutional plain and simple. Always has been. Pacific Winds err... I mean lightofdarkness is a case study in brainwashing and proves that you can educate a fool but you can't make him think.



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