Breaking UFO News! - Stephenville, Texas Radar Report

reply to post by bobafett

Those points were addressed in the MUFON Report's conclusions.

I think some people in this (and other threads) are speaking about and attributing things to the report's authors that they did not say.

Anyway, here's the summary of the 4 conclusions in the report, that will hopefully make some people more informed and stop them from posting false information:

There are several conclusions that the authors have reached with this report and its supporting analysis. The first and primary conclusion is that there was definitely a real and physical object that appeared and was witnessed on January 8, 2008, in the Dublin-Stephenville area.[...]

The likelihood that all of these witnesses miss-identified separate known objects at different times, in different but closely associated geographic locations, all within a 3 1/2 hour time period is extremely low. It is much more reasonable to believe that these witnesses truly saw an object that could not be explained by any objects with which they are familiar.[...]

As to what these witnesses saw, it is difficult to determine. It was not any known aircraft.[...]

The authors cannot comment on the source or origin of this object, but it is clear to the authors that the unknown object was real and not imaginary.[...]

The second conclusion of this report is that the military did not react overtly to the presence of these unknown objects. In light of the disaster of Sept. 11, 2001, the authors of this report have concerns with how the military reacted to an unknown aircraft(s) in U.S. air space. It is clear that there was an unknown object without any transponder beacon traveling along a path that began south of Dublin and that proceeded on a direct path to Crawford Ranch. This object was tracked by the FTW radar for over an hour. Military jets flew within a mile of this object on their way to the Brownwood MOA. The F-16s had to have seen this object on their radar and the suspected AWACS that was circling this area must have detected and recorded this object on its state-of-the-art radar. This must have raised concerns, yet the radar tracks of the military jets, indicates that there were no reaction by them to this object during the hour of time in question. What could explain this lack of reaction? One possibility is that the military knew the identity of the object and instructed the F-16 pilots to ignore and stay on course to the MOA. But this possibility is countered by all of the military replies to the FOIAs that indicated that the military had no aircraft in the area other than the F-16s from CAFB that have already been identified. Secondly, if it was a military aircraft then it was violating FAA and military MARSA rules by not having a transponder beacon code activated while being outside of a MOA. This leaves us with the possibility that the military either did not see the object or just ignored it. In light of what happened on 9/11, what if the unknown object had been a terrorist aircraft? The Air Force should explain what their radar detected on the evening of January 8, 2008, and the reason as to why the military jets in the area did not react.

The third conclusion is that military aircraft traffic in the area was unusually heavy and twice military aircraft strayed out of their standard Military Training Routes and into civilian airspace.[...]

The last conclusion is that there are indications that requests submitted under the Freedom of Information Act are not considered seriously by the U.S. military and were completely ignored by the Dept of Homeland Security's branch, U.S. Customs & Border Patrol.

Thanks spacevisitor for making this thread...and for dedicating it to the hard work of MUFON.

I read the report yesterday and have been digesting the implications of what it contained for a day before I posted.

NGC2736, great post, you said basically what I was winding up to say. There's still too little information, yet too much to ignore, a GREAT way to put it!!

I am wondering why the investigators didn't get more hours before and after the event as well.

My take on the whole idea of it being experimental military craft versus a possible craft not of this planet is, I agree with other posters in that even though we've spent billions and billions and many decades on producing advanced technology, I doubt we've been able to leap-frog to such an advanced rate as what is purportedly on the radar data they have obtained compared to what is now already in use.

Is this the smoking gun everyone who believes in extraterrestrial visits is looking for? Not IMO. But it's a step towards getting us there and they are finally on the right track in how they will obtain the "smoking gun" we all want.

Originally posted by LateApexer313..........I doubt we've been able to leap-frog to such an advanced rate as what is purportedly on the radar data they have obtained compared to what is now already in use.

WHY? Because it sounded 'unconventional'?

Because "antigravity" has been associated with 'aliens', star wars and Star trek? Because some UFO crazies say only little grey aliens can invent antigravity technology? And we humans are nothing more than cavemen being thought by these aliens each time we make a scientific breakthough?

Think of this. If even 50 years ago we were given a glimpse of the computer and Internet technology of today, we would say it's alien technology.

It's been more than 100 years since first manned flight. Don't be surprised like a cavemen if you see a 500ft long hovering silent craft.

100 years is enough for us to to progress to aquire antigrav. Wonder why there is little research put into antigrav?

IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE FIGURED IT OUT! This alien shmalien shtuff is just disinformation to make you guys look the other way.

Don't put yourselves in a tiny cave and say every science out there belong to the aliens. We humans are smarter than that. But if some people insist that 'we were helped', then you do belong in a cave.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

Originally posted by Shhmeat
It's been more than 100 years since first manned flight. Don't be surprised like a cavemen if you see a 500ft long hovering silent craft.

I find it funny that debunkers and pseudo-skeptics always ask for proof when people speak of aliens or think that what they saw wasn't from this world, but never substantiate their own claims that it's not alien.

Where's your proof that it's terrestrial? You don't have any. In the long run you only believe it's terrestrial. So you're basically in the same position as the the UFO crazies as you called them.

I'm not saying that it's not terrestrial, or that what was flying near Stephenville isn't terrestrial, but at least I don't act like I know the answer and everyone else who believes otherwise is a nut job.

Here's a picture of an object taken near Dublin, Texas, right next door to Stephenville in Early July. No, it is not a firework.




Courtesy of the Dublin Citizen newspaper




[edit on 7/13/2008 by TheAvenger]

WOW everyone in here a re pretty confident on how gravity stuff supposed to work, how it should effect it's occupant, how it can't be done by the military, how they can't make a hangar that big, how it can't be silent when it's that big, how it can't be possibly be independently invented by humans without the help of grey little midgets, how it can't be this and that.

How would you know? Have you taken a ride on an antigravity craft? Have you overseen the development of antigravity technology? Have you personally seen little grey midgets teach the military how to pilot their pie tin saucers?

NO.

So enough with the statement with how antigrav is supposed to work and how it can't be created by humans. You people are the other side of the coin of sceptics. "Human can't do this human can't do that. Wah wah"

If there is no proof of how the hush hush black project ultra top secret military industrial complex can't achieve antigravity flight, and can't prove to me how this antigrav tech suppoed to work, then you are just blowing hot venus gas.

Hot venus gas.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SECRET. The government is just playing dumb to distract you all with this alien shmalien stuff.






[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by Shhmeat
It's been more than 100 years since first manned flight. Don't be surprised like a cavemen if you see a 500ft long hovering silent craft.

I find it funny that debunkers and pseudo-skeptics always ask for proof when people speak of aliens or think that what they saw wasn't from this world, but never substantiate their own claims that it's not alien.

Where's your proof that it's terrestrial? You don't have any. In the long run you only believe it's terrestrial. So you're basically in the same position as the the UFO crazies as you called them.

Occam's razor folks. Occam's razor. So what makes you think aliens are dumb enough to travel such vast distances to see such 'primitive' life forms?

The military industrial complex is more scientifically logical than bug eyed grey midgets poking around in people's butts, playing hide and seek with the poplulation, and terrorizing cows.

Military industrial complex existance has been proven with no doubt. It's there. Try and walk into area 51 and see if they wil stop you or not.

ETs existance : blurry photos, tall stories, hoaxes, scams, lies, snake oils schems, fictional dvd and books and hoaxes and hoaxes and hoaxes. All of them are just blowing hot venus gas.





[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

Originally posted by Shhmeat
Occam's razor folks.

Occam's razor.

That's great, but Occam's Razor proves nothing, it's just a principle.

So what makes you think aliens are dumb enough to travel such vast distances to see such 'primitive' life forms?

In your previous post you bash people for assuming how anti-gravity works, or it's effects on people, and yet you apparently know how aliens think and assume they wouldn't find us interesting.

Military industrial complex existance has been proven with no doubt. It's there.
ETs existance : blurry photos, tall stories, hoaxes, scams, lies, snake oils schems, fictional dvd and books and hoaxes and hoaxes and hoaxes.

No one is disputing that the military industrial complex exists...

You could make that argument if you could show us a working terrestrial anti-gravity craft. Since you can't, it's just your belief and opinion that we have such technology.

Originally posted by danx

I think some people in this (and other threads) are speaking about and attributing things to the report's authors that they did not say.

Anyway, here's the summary of the 4 conclusions in the report, that will hopefully make some people more informed and stop them from posting false information:

The likelihood that all of these witnesses miss-identified separate known objects at different times, in different but closely associated geographic locations, all within a 3 1/2 hour time period is extremely low. It is much more reasonable to believe that these witnesses truly saw an object that could not be explained by any objects with which they are familiar.[...]

As to what these witnesses saw, it is difficult to determine. It was not any known aircraft.[...]

The authors cannot comment on the source or origin of this object, but it is clear to the authors that the unknown object was real and not imaginary.[...]

The second conclusion of this report is that the military did not react overtly to the presence of these unknown objects. In light of the disaster of Sept. 11, 2001, the authors of this report have concerns with how the military reacted to an unknown aircraft(s) in U.S. air space. It is clear that there was an unknown object without any transponder beacon traveling along a path that began south of Dublin and that proceeded on a direct path to Crawford Ranch. This object was tracked by the FTW radar for over an hour. Military jets flew within a mile of this object on their way to the Brownwood MOA. The F-16s had to have seen this object on their radar and the suspected AWACS that was circling this area must have detected and recorded this object on its state-of-the-art radar. .

The assertions made in this external source is pure crap that contradict the facts, and the fact is that the object could avoid radar detection without flying low:



He went invisible right in the moment when he had bogies 3 o'clock . . .



. . . and let the military jets pass him by. Mind you that he was doing at that moment about 50 mph. If the pilots got visual, the radar would show them circling, but they kept going straight slightly confused. After that, he accelerated to 1900 mph, caught up with them, but didn't let them to see him. Then he returned on its original flight path toward the presidential ranch and continued his flight unopposed.

The facts are clearly stated in the charts, and there is no reason for anyone to regard the ET aerial technology as comparable to ours and a subject to detection by some AWACS or other million-year old technology made by earthlings.

The external source quote is a mixture of BS and fear.

Originally posted by stander
The external source quote is a mixture of BS and fear.

What are you talking about?

The external source quote is directly from page 48 to page 49 of the MUFON Report.

Originally posted by Shhmeat


WHY? Because it sounded 'unconventional'?

Because "antigravity" has been associated with 'aliens', star wars and Star trek? Because some UFO crazies say only little grey aliens can invent antigravity technology?

Who said anything about anti-gravity? I sure didn't and I don't think it was once mentioned in the MUFON report. Did you even read the report? Or my post for that matter?

IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE FIGURED IT OUT! This alien shmalien shtuff is just disinformation to make you guys look the other way.

Who is "they" that you speak of and where's the proof "they" have figured out whatever it is you're talking about, please link us all to this miraculous new technology "they" have figured out.

Don't put yourselves in a tiny cave and say every science out there belong to the aliens. We humans are smarter than that. But if some people insist that 'we were helped', then you do belong in a cave.

Show me in my ONE post on this thread where I said anything about alien technology being used or "figured out" by humans. Did you confuse my post with someone else's or do you just have trouble grasping the meaning of a few paragraphs?

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

Occam's razor folks.

Occam's razor.
That's great, but Occam's Razor proves nothing, it's just a principle.

So what makes you think aliens are dumb enough to travel such vast distances to see such 'primitive' life forms?

In your previous post you bash people for assuming how anti-gravity works, or it's effects on people, and yet you apparently know how aliens think and assume they wouldn't find us interesting.

That's it. It's a principle. You must use principles from known proven facts to make up your mind. The MIC is a reality. They exist. It's proven. Try walk into Area 51 and see if you get shot at.

ETs DO NOT EXIST. Do I need to hold someone's hand everytime they need to think for themselves?

From your avatar. "Admit nothing, deny everything" So by using this 'principle' when trying to piece together a puzzle you are left with "Nothing"?

So where does the thinking comes into place. Eh? No thinking involved? Just look at the facts zip by your face and admit nothing and deny everything with no thinkking involved? .....Figures.... You're the one who proves nothing....

Military industrial complex existance has been proven with no doubt. It's there.
ETs existance : blurry photos, tall stories, hoaxes, scams, lies, snake oils schems, fictional dvd and books and hoaxes and hoaxes and hoaxes.

"No one is disputing that the military industrial complex exists..."

You could make that argument if you could show us a working terrestrial anti-gravity craft. Since you can't, it's just your belief and opinion that we have such technology.

Eeeeepp! I'm not the one who's saying ridiculous things such as aliens coming from light years away just to scare some hllbilliys. The weight is on you guys. Not me. You guys say they can't be humans in there. What makes you so sure they're not humans piloting them? Aliens don't exist. All a bunch of baloney, BS and people trying to sell DVD and books. Humans do. The military industrial complex do. That's a flat fact. Then it's humans. HUmans with enough brain cells to think we are smarter than imaginary beings made up from people smoking the too much shrooms or just plain make stuff up.











[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

What interests me regardless of whose technology we're talking about is sudden supersonic acceleration without disturbing the air or making a sonic boom. I have only heard one theory that might account for this phenomenon.

Originally posted by danx

Originally posted by stander
The external source quote is a mixture of BS and fear.

What are you talking about?

The external source quote is directly from page 48 to page 49 of the MUFON Report.

Are you implying that MUFON assesments are imune to a review based on facts?

MUFON is virtually blinded by their hopeless quest to prove to the world that "UFOs are real." This blindness prevent them to see clearly what happened on 1/8/2008. They will continue to misguide themselves and anyone else who is on the same wavelength.

Did their report ever asks the question why the unidentified tracked object went off radar? Hardly so. Their questions are directed elsewhere; they maintain that AWACS would have to see the object without giving a bit of consideration to the facts seen in the charts. To MUFON, there is no difference between our planes and the UFOs: both can be "detected and traced by AWACS." A 12th century bishop would be more open-minded than those MUFON folks.

This is really unbelievable: they are looking at the facts, but don't want to accept them.

But otherwise, they did an excellent descriptive job -- a very dedicated one.

Originally posted by Shhmeat
That's it. It's a principle. You must use principles from known proven facts to make up your mind.

You can use principles as guidelines, doesn't mean they override reality...

The MIC is a reality. They exist. It's proven.

Again, no one is disputing the military industrial complex's existence, nor did I in my previous post. I said this already!
And I also pointed out where your logic fails: you have not proven we have developed anti-gravity craft. It's just speculation on your part.

ETs DO NOT EXIST.

I'm going to use your military industrial complex analogy here.

The Universe exists. The Universe is big. It has billions of stars, galaxies and planets. It's proven. It has planets capable of sustaining life.

Can I say that life exists for sure just on merely that? No. Can you say that we have built an anti-gravity craft because the military industrial complex alone exists? No.

Do I need to hold someone's hand everytime they need to think for themselves?

Well, I hope someone holds yours because I'm not going to demonstrate your logic fallacy again. Twice is enough.

From your avatar. "Admit nothing, deny everything" So by using this 'principle' when trying to piece together a puzzle you are left with "Nothing"?

My avatar has nothing to do with this, nor does it matter even a bit for this discussion.

Eeeeepp! I'm not the one who's saying ridiculous things such as aliens coming from light years away just to scare some hllbilliys.

Actually you were. No one else, at least here on this thread, said that. I'll show your quote however:

The military industrial complex is more scientifically logical than bug eyed grey midgets poking around in people's butts, playing hide and seek with the poplulation, and terrorizing cows.

I'll let you in a little secret: Just because some people believe intelligent extra-terrestrial life exists and might have and/or might be visiting Earth, doesn't mean they believe in every story about UFOs, aliens or abductions. Nor do they believe that every UFO is of alien origin.

Aliens don't exist.

Assumption. And I'll save this quote for a later date.

The military industrial complex do. That's a flat fact. Then it's humans.

This is why your logic fails. You simply declare that extra-terrestrials don't exist, therefor the only explanation can only be humans.

I'm sure that if we were having this discussion 300 years ago you would say "It has to be a machine of the gods. Man cannot fly in the skies".

HUmans with enough brain cells to think we are smarter than imaginary beings made up from people smoking the too much shrooms or just plain make stuff up.

Your generalizations make you look foolish, and don't help your arguments at all. But by now I'm convinced you're not really after a civilized and rational conversation.

Originally posted by stander
MUFON is virtually blinded by their hopeless quest to prove to the world that "UFOs are real." This blindness prevent them to see clearly what happened on 1/8/2008. They will continue to misguide themselves and anyone else who is on the same wavelength.

I think they have proved that UFO's are real quite well in this report. They managed to prove that a number of witness sightings of a UFO were corroborated by numerous radar tracks from 5 separate monitoring sites.

If you mean proving that UFO's are extra terrestrial, then you may have misread that report as I did not see that admission anywhere. MUFON are pushing for proper investigation of the phenomenon and in regard to that target, this report goes a long way. There are valid questions that should be answered by Governments of the world and most notably the US military establishment.

Why did this craft travel so far while breaking many FAA regulations that even military craft must obey? Why did it fly so close to Crawford ranch without military intervention? What is the explanation for the unusual dimensions and performance of said craft?

And even more importantly, why has this not hit the MSM?

reply to post by LateApexer313


'They.' You know 'they'. The same shadowy 'they' who watches every movement you make from paying your taxes, to your phone conversations to the things you do in the toilet.

Seriously. It's the military industrial complex. It is you who didn't read my post.

And what other technology it's supposed to be? Gravity attainment? Zero point? Ether space technology? Tesla technology? Tin foil hat technology?


No sound. No sonic boom. It's clearly antigravity. Read some papers concerning antigravity. I don't have time to spoon feed you . Use google. *DUH*





[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]

Does the US military (or any other government's military for that matter) have aircraft two or more (US) football fields long?

Maybe. (Possible, with known technology)


Invisible to the naked eye at a distance, but still capable of providing a radar return?

Maybe. (Possible, with known technology.)


Able to hover for extended periods of time and/or maneuver at low speed?

Definitely, Yes.


Silently?

Would require some advanced noise reduction/sound suppression technology, but possible.



My friends worked on what might be the precursor to such a vehicle, in Texas, in conjuction with the USAF, several years ago.

They continue to work on a larger vehicle (up to 6000FT long), without the aid of the military.


It might not be a "Black" project (ours wasn't).


And it might not have been a Military project; strictly speaking.

(The CIA/NSA/NRO are not, officially, part of the US armed services, are they?)



Could we be looking for an Airship?



I know. I know. Airships are painfully slow-moving "Pigs of the Air".

This is largely due to the fact that the volume required to contain sufficient lifting gas to loft the beast results in a huge, aerodynamic-drag inducing surface area. Drag is compounded in the typical airship design by the fact that the "skin" of the craft must be flexible to allow the contained lift-gas to expand.


But just imigine if you could somehow induce the flexible "skin" of the ship to become, temporarily rigid (perhaps by inducing an electric current through the material?): thus eliminating the bulk of the drag.

Taken a step further, a very light-weight, yet rigid material may have been developed for such a purpose.


And you could even begin with an inherently aerodynamic shape for the craft (my friends use a narrow V-shape).


Once thusly transformed, such a craft might be capable of very high speed acceleration/cruising, since it would, by nature, have a significantly reduced mass: it's basically a Lighter-than-Air-vehicle (LAV) afterall.



"Anti-Gravity" technology, developed either on Earth or elsewhere, is not necessarily required to explain this incident.

An advanced, unknown, non-military (but possibly "Government") vehicle, made possible by relatively minor technological advances already hinted at in the "White" world, might be all that is required to explain this very puzzling event.


I, personally, hope that it was ET come for a visit. However...


I submit the above speculation for your consideration.

Originally posted by stander
Are you implying that MUFON assesments are imune to a review based on facts?

Of course not. I thought that you were questioning the source of my post, that's all.

Did their report ever asks the question why the unidentified tracked object went off radar? Hardly so.

They could've done that. But then what? They could only speculate on the reasons why. I think there's enough speculation already.

Their questions are directed elsewhere; they maintain that AWACS would have to see the object without giving a bit of consideration to the facts seen in the charts. To MUFON, there is no difference between our planes and the UFOs: both can be "detected and traced by AWACS." A 12th century bishop would be more open-minded than those MUFON folks.

You are misunderstanding their point of view, I believe.

They say that because, well, we have the unknown on radar. It disappears from radar on 2 occasions, but we see it most of the time. Correct? AWACS is more advanced than ground radar. If we see the unknown on that radar AWACS had to see it. At least during the time that we see it on 'our' radar. That's what they are saying.

Moreover, many things could've made it disappear from radar. One is that it could have descended to an altitude that the radar wouldn't be able to detect it.

This is really unbelievable: they are looking at the facts, but don't want to accept them.

Frankly, I think you are confusing your own conclusions with facts. The UFO disappeared from radar, twice. Those are the facts. They don't know why it did, nor can they know now. Only speculate.

So if it is not of Alien origin, why is this on the Aliens and UFO forum.

If it's of unknown origin, then this should be in the supernatural forum, since people in here are adamant it is 'unexplained'

By the way MUFON is giving this boring radar graph dot thing too seriously.
It's boring plain and has no substance.

This is not smoking gun. Why is this thread getting hundreds of flags? They're just DOTS on graph. Dots on graph! Wow! Like dots on photos! Dots on videos! Wow! Dots! Dots! Dots!

Is this all the field of ufology got? DOTS?!

I'm very disappointed.

Breaking news! Today we have sighted a dot!



[edit on 13-7-2008 by Shhmeat]