Best budget water filter.

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


I have just found this document from The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine in regards to the ''Lifesaver'' Water System.

www.lifesaverbottleusa1.com...

Hey sorry for the delay.
Doesn't it suck when you have to work

The 'lifesaver' has been a target of mine for a while.. Been using straws till now.
Almost bought a used 6000 from Ebay.. but me being me did a hunt..and sure enough from the new link I gave there's a BIG reduction in price..£240 down to £160-summit with VAT..

The size of the filter 'holes" are so small not even virus DNA gets through.. pretty small woooo..

It literally does EVERYTHING..dirt/bacteria/chemical/virus/heavy metal.
(Dunno about Glam rock tho)

I bought it with a pack of 4 spare carbon filters so it should last 1250 litres of totally pure water including the one that comes with it...
(After the carbon one runs out it won't do chems.)
2Ls a day is still a good couple of years use..that a lot of 'wild-time'..(with the 4pack)

In a 'sit-x' you'll have built your 4 storey log cabin with hot n cold running water by then

One thing to be VERY aware of.. once you get it wet..make sure you don't expose it to temps of below zero..( - 10 unused)
A wet filter will freeze and expand..giving you a LOT bigger holes than your average water-born bug.. I'm talking 'Fred's crabs' size holes here..

If anyone knows where they can get some cheap silk.. it would make a great 'pre-filter' wrapped over the opening before dirt n stuff even hits the first coarse filter sponge..

Sure beats using my sleeping back liner..Really starting to smell kinda funny.

I'm gonna do the 'puddle with a dog-poo in it test'

Here are a couple:

www.msrgear.com...

www.steripen.com...

shop.monolithic.com...

reply to post by jerico65


Thanks, that last one looks fairly efficient and cost effective. Have you actually used any of these products? The pen looks interesting but I would be hesitant to get something that requires battery power. Thanks also AgentT_T for bringing some levity to the thread, let me know how your poo water turned out!

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Blitzkreigen

 

I have just found this document from The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine in regards to the ''Lifesaver'' Water System.

www.lifesaverbottleusa1.com...

Great Link, and Thank You for posting that.

Its late and I just wanted to check in, Ive been busy all day.

On the test you posted...

Only 2 Items Tested. Poliovirus and E- Coli.

When I see the EPA challenge tests, they test about 20 items, and provide the readings for each.
( I realize that this Filter has More tests available to read )

Also.. I noticed that the TEST posted calls "5 log"-- 99.999 % --which is ACTUALLY ONLY 3 LOG.... ??? Maybe they are Measuring in S.Pounds?

One More thing... the EPA tests to the Maximum Available Filterable Capacity advertized by the manuafacturer, then tests all the items AGAIN, and gives readings for each item. "Challenge TESTS" to "Maximum Load".

I'm just trying to compare apples to apples here guys... dont take it the wrong way.

Hopefully tomorrow I can look up the EPA tests and try to do a "side by side" just for the record.

Hey its what I do...

If I'm SOLD, I'll be damn Sure to let you know, and so far I'm pretty Durn Impressed with what they Claim.. the Log Readings are starting to bother me though.

Its still the best thing that I've wanted to investigate in a long time.


Best regards,

Blitzkreigen



PS ... the Poo Water Puddle was really funny Agent T ! Loved it!

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Originally posted by jerico65
Here are a couple:

www.msrgear.com...

www.steripen.com...

shop.monolithic.com...

Miox-- Only does 'Some' chemicals... to a finite degree. No Viruses removed. Batteries?...

SteriPen- No Chemicals removed--- not good bacteria removal log ratings. Even Questionable Virus Ratings. ( EPA Test Links on Their Site ) BATTS...

Ceramic Baptist Men Filter-- I Love the Texas Baptist Men and their Mission to help others out. I fully support that Goal... BUT their filter is good for a "mass scale" emergency group situation, and thats what its designed for... Not for PERSONAL drinking water on a small PERSONAL scale when you can have a LOT better LOG removal ratings and Virus Removal as well. Especially when you can buy your own, instead of it being delivered to you "after the fact" in a "shelter".

Great for feeding the masses. Just look at their own posted data... 95 % removal... come on...

I fully suppoort them in their mission though.

The Silver Coating inside the Unit I fully Understand and Support in Water Filtration, By the way. SILVER IS good for treating water, even Collodial.

I just see it as If you have a choice, why not have the best, AND have the others ... for limited purposes, or waters of "known" quality.

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Hello everyone
I notice there seems to be some level of confusion over Log values. Please check on google but I can assure you that 99.99% is Log 4 and not log 2. 99.999995 is log 7.5. There is no other interpretation.

The price in the site for Lifesaver bottle is now £99.95 + VAT & shipping. For the US you don't pay VAT.

Also Lifesaver bottle just won best in test from Bushcraft & Survival Magazine.

www.lifesaversystems.com...

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


I am wondering if there is a difference in measurement units between the US and UK/EU when it comes to water filters/purifiers ...... I wouldnt be surprised as your gallon is different to 'our' gallon, etc etc.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine is a bit like your EPA - If they endorse it, then generally it is an okay piece of equipment. Also the British Army is doing evaluation tests on it as well.

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen
Miox-- Only does 'Some' chemicals... to a finite degree. No Viruses removed. Batteries?...

No viruses? This is from the MSR website:

"It works by creating a powerful dose of mixed oxidants (MIOX), which is then added to untreated water, inactivating all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium (which even iodine doesn't kill)."

Batteries are a drawback for this one and the Steri-pen. Probably rechargable 123s would be the best. The MSR also uses any sort of salt (MRE packets, table salt, etc)

Originally posted by BlitzkreigenCeramic Baptist Men Filter-- I Love the Texas Baptist Men and their Mission to help others out. I fully support that Goal... BUT their filter is good for a "mass scale" emergency group situation, and thats what its designed for... Not for PERSONAL drinking water on a small PERSONAL scale when you can have a LOT better LOG removal ratings and Virus Removal as well. Especially when you can buy your own, instead of it being delivered to you "after the fact" in a "shelter".

How much water do you think you'll be needing per day? You'll need at least a gallon per person. I'd rather have something that can clean a large amount of water at once, than some other system that does a few liters at a shot.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by jerico65]

I've always held that the best budget 'water filter' is bleach.

That is, if you're worried about viruses and bacteria and not heavy metals/particulate.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I've always held that the best budget 'water filter' is bleach.

That is, if you're worried about viruses and bacteria and not heavy metals/particulate.

Bleach is good, and will kill anything like a virus/bacteria.

A cool idea is storing "Shock it" used for cleaning pools. With some water, you can use it to mix a solution that will clean other water sources. Just don't get the crap with vinyl cleaner, etc in it!

Also, with my previous post, I'm not sure if we are talking about long term storage of water, or just wanting to clean a bit for a drink while hiking, etc.

Here's a good link:

www.chp.gov.hk...

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hello everyone
I notice there seems to be some level of confusion over Log values. Please check on google but I can assure you that 99.99% is Log 4 and not log 2. 99.999995 is log 7.5. There is no other interpretation.

The price in the site for Lifesaver bottle is now £99.95 + VAT & shipping. For the US you don't pay VAT.

Also Lifesaver bottle just won best in test from Bushcraft & Survival Magazine.

www.lifesaversystems.com...

I stand corrected, and Thank You for clarifying that.

Like I said, its really been a few years since I had to do any research on units to this level of detail.

Nothing has warrented it since 2002 or so, that could not be negated simply by reading the information posted by "new manuafactures" on thier own sites.

Bottom Line is NOW we have people thinking LOG results instead of just "95 to 98 % is A- ok with me". Thats where the differences are in between ALL these units. Thats what I'm looking at to make an educated factual decision. I hope others are thinking in these precise data points as well, because it does make a difference when you have to drink it daily, and from extremely questionable sources. ( Poo Puddles )


So whats that in US dollars, today before the stock market opens again tomorrow? lol.... better hurry and answer that one.

I saw 400. to 460. US on their web site, I understand there is a sale.

Thanks for your Post.

Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by Blitzkreigen

 

I am wondering if there is a difference in measurement units between the US and UK/EU when it comes to water filters/purifiers ...... I wouldnt be surprised as your gallon is different to 'our' gallon, etc etc.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine is a bit like your EPA - If they endorse it, then generally it is an okay piece of equipment. Also the British Army is doing evaluation tests on it as well.

No.. lol... I 'm sure they are the same.

I was just making a 'monetary joke' about the differences between pounds S, and Dollars... I was actually confused on what I thought was LOG, "after" the decimal point instead of the "entire number". The Poster above your reply Correctly pointed out that I was mistaken. 99.99= 4 log... not 2 log... I thought the Web Site was measuring in Pounds S.... anyway... just a bad attempt at levity.

I understand the endorsements are qualified and honorable, but since we have the same test for each unit to go by, I just want to compare apples to apples with the exact same tests to maximun loads.

I'm already sure its "top notch kit", or I would not be even persuing this any further. I just want to kow HOW good is it and will it be better than what I know to be the best available now?.

Its for my own satisdaction is nothinf else, but I intend to share my opinion... AND "Stand Corrected" when need be to further my knowledge in this area.

This is like 'continuing education' to me, on a deadly serious level.

Thats why I'm "Splitting the Molecules" and taking double measurments, and appreciating others input and opinions.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen
Miox-- Only does 'Some' chemicals... to a finite degree. No Viruses removed. Batteries?...

No viruses? This is from the MSR website:

"It works by creating a powerful dose of mixed oxidants (MIOX), which is then added to untreated water, inactivating all viruses, bacteria, Giardia, and Cryptosporidium (which even iodine doesn't kill)."

If I'm not mistaklen, this is a Pre- treatment? Not part of the unit itself?

Pre-treatment is another animal all together... and is not factored in to the selection of a unit that "does it all" in one pass.

Whats the limit on Pre- treatment? I can Pre- treat water good enough for most of you to accept to drink... without even purifing it.

Apples to Apples is what I'm looking for.




Batteries are a drawback for this one and the Steri-pen. Probably rechargable 123s would be the best. The MSR also uses any sort of salt (MRE packets, table salt, etc)



Salt probably makes chlorine through electrolysis inside the unit?

So now your just making Bleach, basically.

Originally posted by BlitzkreigenCeramic Baptist Men Filter-- I Love the Texas Baptist Men and their Mission to help others out. I fully support that Goal... BUT their filter is good for a "mass scale" emergency group situation, and thats what its designed for... Not for PERSONAL drinking water on a small PERSONAL scale when you can have a LOT better LOG removal ratings and Virus Removal as well. Especially when you can buy your own, instead of it being delivered to you "after the fact" in a "shelter".

How much water do you think you'll be needing per day? You'll need at least a gallon per person. I'd rather have something that can clean a large amount of water at once, than some other system that does a few liters at a shot.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by jerico65]

I Agree that 1 gallon Per Person Per Day is adequate for drinking and cooking. Some days you will use more, others days you wont use near as much. Especially cooking for 5 people for 5 days.... it tends to balance out at 1 gallon Per Day. Even in the HEAT of the Summer. I'm testing that out now and for the past few months, in actuality. Its Been 95 to 102 here for the past few months.

Now that 1 Gallon can be produced by gravity feed to perfection in a few minutes ( 5 or 6 ). Just hang it and walk away. Or can be hand pumped rather quickly 1.8 Quarts per Minute for about 2 minutes. 10 Minutes to fill a 5 gallon Jug, so in 60 minutes thats enough water for a month, for 1 person. ( 30 Gallons per hour )

Over night, you could purify what 55 gallons of more easily? With just gravity feeding.... You could do that at least 3 times before you had to backwash the unit, or make that cartridge a dedicated gravity feed cartridge.


Now fopr washing, showering, and cleaning hands, toilet facilities etc... you dont have to use the PURIFIED water, as long as you dont cross contaminate your 'mouth' while showering or hand washing. I would brush my teeth with the Purified water, for example.

Here is where the Katadynes, Berkleys, and Baptist Men Come in and other "High Volume Filters" for large quantities of 'relatively' safe water, that CAN be used to drink , but will NOT be a PURE as PURIFIED water.... ( Filters versus Purifiers.. Big Difference).

I must add that its extremely important to consider your source of water as well. I personally have 'come prepared' to filter All chemicals And viruses from water sources that I am not familiar with.

Viruses can always be treated with BLEACH first, for the FILTERS. Not Necessary with a Purifier. Also Contact time and PPM free Chlorine Readings are extremely important as well as pH and Temperature and Sunlight exposure when pre- treating water to kill viruses.

I'll cover a bit more of that later, as it is extremly useful to have BLEACH to use properly.


Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I've always held that the best budget 'water filter' is bleach.

That is, if you're worried about viruses and bacteria and not heavy metals/particulate.

Bleach is good, and will kill anything like a virus/bacteria.

A cool idea is storing "Shock it" used for cleaning pools. With some water, you can use it to mix a solution that will clean other water sources. Just don't get the crap with vinyl cleaner, etc in it!

Also, with my previous post, I'm not sure if we are talking about long term storage of water, or just wanting to clean a bit for a drink while hiking, etc.

Here's a good link:

www.chp.gov.hk...

*** I have to interject the SHOCK IT can be quite dangerous, or any other pool sanitizer as well.

The Shock It has Heavy Metals in it and is only 68% to 78 % Chlorine, the remainder being additives, binders and vehicles.

Also Some Pool chemicals are treated with Cyanuric Acid, which is a SUN SCREEN for the Chlorine. Over 100 ppm it is known to cause Cancer.

Trichlorcyanuricacid is commony known as TABS... and another poster on another thread suggested using them for water purifiation... Please dont do that.

Trihalomethanes are formed when Pool Chemicals Come into contact with other particles they are oxidizing as well.

Also, Chlorine Will NOT kill Cryptosporidium, Cyclospora or Giardia that we know of NOW. Who Nows what Bug is out there that Beach or even Boiling Will not Kill.. They Have to be Removed physically. The 700+ Degree F. microbes at Black Smoker Vents immediately come to mind as one example of evolution.

Bleach Still has its Place...

Your BEST bet is PURE unbscented Clorox Bleach with no additives, just Sodium Hypochlorite and water. ( 5.7 % AVAILABLE Chlorine.)

This is regular household Bleach, that breaks down into SALT and WATER.. nothing Else. THIS is what you want to use to pre-treat water.... NOT POOL Chemicals, UNLESS you run it through a Purifier afterwards that will remove all the Heavy Metals and Cyanuric Acid.


Sunlight will also destroy the Bleach's ability to purify water, so do it out of the sunlight. Also a MINIMUM of 30 Minutes contact time at a MINIMUM of 0.5 ppm is required to kill viruses. I personally treat at 5 ppm, then let the sun bake the remainder of the Bleach Out Before consuming. Shaking a bottle will also aireate the water and help to dissipate the Bleach afterwards.

****A pH of 8.0 makes chlorine about 10 % effective.*
****A PH of 7.2 is 90% effecient and effective. ******

Add some Tea Or Gatorade, to your STORED ,Bleached CITY water when your ready to use it, to remove any Plastic Storage smell or taste. No Need to Filter this water that you stored in advance.



I thnk we are talking about BOTH here, but Primarialy treating water for on the move, immediately without storing it. To Store Water Simply add BLEACH to TAP water at a minumum of 5 Drops Per Gallon, up to 2 ML per Gallon ( About 22-25 drops approx.)


Bleach Rocks... we should all have 5 Gallons or More available. Its Only .99 cents per gallon.

Pool chemicals can be useful in an EXTREMELY large Water treatment proceess, for say 100's of People with almost unlimited generator POWER, Tanks, Filter setups and Final Stage Filtration.

It Does work Great to treat Green Pond Water that you Pump and 'one pass' filter ( 30 Microns ) into a tank, where it can be recirculated and filtered ( 1 Micron ) to be pumped to another stage, and then treated for washing ( 0.5 to 0.2 microns ) and then to be PURIFIED to 0.1 Microns with all chemicals and Viruses removed and so forth... Gives you several different sources and qualities of water to work with for your intended uses. Drinking water ALWAYS being the Highest Quality Available with modern technology. Then you can remove that final filtration layer ( First Need Unit ) and put it in your pocket and 'walk away', should the need arise. Really Portable.

Most here wont be interested in that extreme of a setup, but it gives you a Broad Picture of the "Octopus Effect", and large volumes for 'not so purified' daily purposes.

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


I have to say bravo to you Blitz, what a great wealth of information you've brought to this thread. Thanks for keeping us updated and informed. As a layman city-slicker, much of this is new to me, and I applaud you for taking the initiative to look through the data and break it down in an easy and understandable manner. You sir, are a gentleman, and a scholar.

I've asked the mods to award you with 500 or more points for your contributions to this thread. Heck, If I can get that many or more for posting some of my poetry, surely you deserve some for everything you've added here. Perhaps they will agree with me.

i am a barely apparent errant arrow
i know not my destination; each participle arrives according to its own principle
if i were to become one of the hungry
let me count fingers on the hands of mans disbanded apathy
trample me
stampede freedom
my quest is at the behest of the keeper of kings
the secret seeker of means
the broken reaper who sings like a phoenix

and when the first forgotten descendant
returns resplendent returns independence
all men will know truth and light
proof of lifes greatest creator
maker
shaper

Peace and Light upon all of these, my brethren.

Originally posted by ExquisitExamplE
reply to post by Blitzkreigen

 

I have to say bravo to you Blitz, what a great wealth of information you've brought to this thread. Thanks for keeping us updated and informed. As a layman city-slicker, much of this is new to me, and I applaud you for taking the initiative to look through the data and break it down in an easy and understandable manner. You sir, are a gentleman, and a scholar.

I've asked the mods to award you with 500 or more points for your contributions to this thread. Heck, If I can get that many or more for posting some of my poetry, surely you deserve some for everything you've added here. Perhaps they will agree with me.

i am a barely apparent errant arrow
i know not my destination; each participle arrives according to its own principle
if i were to become one of the hungry
let me count fingers on the hands of mans disbanded apathy
trample me
stampede freedom
my quest is at the behest of the keeper of kings
the secret seeker of means
the broken reaper who sings like a phoenix

and when the first forgotten descendant
returns resplendent returns independence
all men will know truth and light
proof of lifes greatest creator
maker
shaper

Peace and Light upon all of these, my brethren.

WOW... Thanks! I'm Truly Dumbfounded! I'm also Humbly Honored.

This is what I ENJOY doing...and I know how long its taken me to get to a certain point. ( starting in the early 80's as a 'hobby' ) I enjoy water and it truly fascinates me, and puts food in my house as well. ( My Profession )

I'm just trying to save other people from having to do all that time and effort, and keep my knowledge updated as well.

The Peer Pressure and Review here I find very humbling, and ATS seems to keep me on my toes and not let me get Lazy. It also sorts fact from fiction, with really no question as to what is the truth, after extensive World Wide Peer Review.

It would be really easy for me to just get Lazy and be happy with what I have for Water Purification, but I really do hate to see people get snookered by false advertizing, or simply 'bad' or "Partial" knowledge.


I'm also open to new technologies, and I have no 'stock or personal gain' in the units that I recommend. I just have decided that they are the best....but that still remains to be seen. So far they have a 28 year record with me.

In all honesty I have NOT pulled the complete test results from either unit directly from the EPA as of yet for side by side comparison. Its not that I'm being lazy, I just have a life that needs attention, and I need to balance my efforts. Initially I do see very good readings from the bottle system recommended by others.

I think its very important for all of us to stay current with technology and science, especially when we are "fighting" living organisms that seem to evolve and mutate, with an intelligence that is growing and is measurable.

One example is the NEW "CAT Bacteria" that changes Human Thought and behavior patterns. Its really scarry and almost ALIEN to know that My Behavior can be changed without my knowledge by BACTERIA that also makes MICE AND RATS unafraid of CATS, to further pass the bacteria on.
When Humans get it, Women actually become more Flirty and Catty, while Men become more Aggressive and Protective. Most people infected dont know it. I'm sure I have it because I have many cats, both wild and pets.

I know I get a little aggressive and highly protective on occasion, and I have been trained NOT to do that Since "dinosaurs wore wooden underwear". I do see a difference, and I am aware of it through internal observation.

Another is the Intelligence of E- Coli and how it is mutating as we speak at an alarming rate to ensure its survival. Its also showing incredible signs of INTELLIGENCE, by the patterns it is forming, and group communication evidence is being recorded. Its almost hand in hand with Quantum Physics and Communication at Faster than the Speed of Light, across vast distances.. truly amazing evidence. ( 'Fascinating' as Spock would say )

Also, there have been studies done where concentrating on water can change its molecular structure. I practice this daily with the waters that I am responsible for, and I can honestly say that I DO see results from ' Blessing ' the water with Positive energy and good thoughts.

Go ahead and laugh... I get paid to do it, and I know it works. I can tell when I'm not around for a few weeks, how different the water is, and how FAST I can get it back to pristine by my short time on the site. Usually under 2 hours, and it continuies after I leave.

I can also feel the water with my hands and tell you whats going on... thats taken 14 years or more to aquire, and I just noticed it about a year ago or so. I can actually feel whats in the water, to a limited degree, and correct it quickly. I always verify by testing , but thats getting less and less honestly. I still verify what I think, and I'm usually 98% correct.

One More that we know about is the Bacteria that Lives on the Black Smoker Vents at the Deepest parts of the Ocean.
A minimum of 700 Degrees F. water temp, and these bacteria are THRIVING... there goes the "Boil Water to remove all Bacteria" theory. That theory has been with us for Hundreds of Years.... now shot down as not being 100 % effective, not even mentioning concentrating chemicals and heavy metals if not done correctly. ( XXX Distillation for Moonshine is one example )

Bottom line is that when it comes to WATER for drinking....you dont have a lot of leeway before you get Deathly Sick. ( been there done that ). Probably still suffering the effects 20+ years later.

There is a Lot of misinformation that I see, read and hear that I simply cant let slide... even though it cost me dearly in sleep and effort trying to get the word out. I dont now how much longer I can even try for others.

Thanks for the Kudos, and enough Points to get to RATS would be great eventually...If I dont get burnt out by then. I do see that coming.

C. Difficile is another one.. Mutated in 2000 to resist modern antibiotics.

Purell will not kill it anymore, as it did a few years back.

We are up against an Intelligence here folks, not particles.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

Graciously.. I Appreciate it!

[edit on 14-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

From personal experience, and traipsing across North, Central and parts of South America, I have had very good results from an early model sweetwater filter. I bought mine about ten years or so ago, right after they came out. Aside from a small mechanical issue that was corrected on newer models, it has performed well. [my filter was updated by sweetwater at no cost] However I will say that Blitz has done good research.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


I read today that they reckon there will be a vaccine for C.Diff within 5 years and one for MRSA within 10 years. I cant remember though where I read it or heard it ..... doh!

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen
Also, Chlorine Will NOT kill Cryptosporidium, Cyclospora or Giardia that we know of NOW. Who Nows what Bug is out there that Beach or even Boiling Will not Kill.. They Have to be Removed physically. The 700+ Degree F. microbes at Black Smoker Vents immediately come to mind as one example of evolution.

My friend found out the hard way that Iodine does NOT kill Giardia. Three 10 year old kids on their way home from a backpacking trip. He had to replace the back seat of his car!