U.S. Considers Takeover of Two Mortgage Giants

reply to post by mybigunit

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Hope you made some bank today... I'm holding nothing but one mutual fund over the weekend. I'm determined to have that darn mutual go positive for me this summer.

Part of me wants to short Lehman over the weekend as the options are pointing to something coming and there's chatter out there. Lots of volume on July 10, 12.5 and 15 puts and they expire next week. I'm no options expert but I'm starting to play them more than the underlying stock.

Now..Just out.

Fed says discount window NOT open!


cannot find source on line...It was on CNBC breaking news and the DOW JONES service.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by whiteraven]

Since the USA is suffering from a sort of systemic collapse under the watchful gaze of Bush/Cheney/Pelosi/Reid, I think it is absurd to expect anything positive coming from those quarters.

Related to the collapse, is the Enron Loophole allowing speculators to turn the price per barrel of oil into the nightmare that is unfolding before us.

If those in Congress (or the White House) really wanted to do something to save the USA's economy, they would at least end the Enron loophole immediately.

But it appears the same Democrats who gave Bush his vile FISA bill, will also roll over and play dead rather than doing anything about the Enron Loophole.

They will keep talking about increasingly supply and using the strategic reserves in Louisiana when those are meaningless in a national and world economy where the Enron Loophole is doing so much damage.

reply to post by mybigunit

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*sigh*...

Got raped in the Forex markets today lol.. Effin Yen ...

Anyways, no good comes from socializing debts..

If we nationalize failing companies.. why the hell not nationalize profitable companies? .. If we the tax payer will burden the debts of Frannie and Freddie, god damnit we better burden the profits of Exxon, Chevron, and so forth..

Capitalist market, Socialized Debt. Sorry, I don't play that game..

Can you say ... desperate Plunge Protection Team? Impressive 30mins there at the end...

Fed officially Closes Indymac!

Not a good sign at all..

Black Monday this coming week? Any takers? PPT might throw a stick save in there this weekend. I would not be surprised to find out on Monday that there were some behind closed doors meetings that went on feverishly over the weekend. Get ready to riot folks because if they bail out the banks and brokerage houses and give the struggling Joe homeowner the shaft then that's just what they might have. I'm sick as hell paying for greedy pigmen that have destroyed this economy while the average consumer takes it in the seat due to corruption and bad financial decisions on the part of the government and corporations. God where are the John Adams and Thomas Jeffersons of the 21st century when you need them. I can't believe that nobody has stepped up to the plate and publicly challenged these bandits.

reply to post by titian

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Im looking into $20 citi Jan10 calls. I think the time is getting close. Not yet but soon. Im looking at getting a hundred or so contracts. In the short term im bearish on financials but over the next year and a half Im bullish. I think this is just a bunch of fog the more bloodier I see it get.

reply to post by Rockpuck

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A friend of mine has been long the euro since around $1.56 and rode it all week. He made over 100k this week alone. I havent been trading much forex I jumped out of gold grrrrr now Im kicking myself in the ass. I may just back in on a pullback but I dont know if that pullback will come anytime soon.

I admittedly am not an economic genius, so I was wondering what will happen to very low income people when this all goes down.

I'm 24, don't own a car and live with a family of friends. 5 of us live here, 4 have jobs, and we barely make enough to make ends meet. Now we do pay for some luxuries which can be kicked (internet and cable) but not much else. Not only that, but I live in a rural town that is dying, as everyone is very poor and the recent gas and food increases have caused many of the local businesses to shut their doors.

My fear is that with the all of this going down is that my town and others like it are not going to be able to afford to live. I'm not whining (as McCains adviser says) I am just curious. I have been telling people to stock up on food, but not many have listened.

I guess the reason I ask is that I see a lot of people giving good information on how this could effect the stock market, but what are the real world effects it could have on people like me.

Rock you're already subsidizing big oil...surprised you didn't know that already!!

That's a good long-term play. I've been doing short-term options plays based on dips and runs. I still have the DT mentality even though I don't actively DT anymore. Guess it's an adrenaline thing...

Good luck to you. I really enjoy your insight.

Anyone notice how bond yields and the dollar index reacted before the FED denied the rumor GSE access to FED lending windows? Anyone other than me concerned that bond yields rose pretty much across the board even on a 3 digit DOW down day? It is somewhat disturbing that that there was no"flight to safety" into bonds.

A bailout or even access to the FED window could negatively affect both the USD and the Govt's abillity to borrow cheaply.

The bond markets will speak the truth. A bailout of Freddie or Fannie will negate any confidence left in US debt and dollar value. The US needs billions of dollars daily from foreign .govs to finance its operations. Those foreign .govs are already tiring of buying our treasuries and watching the value fall precipitously. A bailout could very well be what makes these buyers walk.

No money going into bonds? Who wants anything backed by the full faith of this .gov anymore? Yep.

Ok, assuming that the US economy will collapse terribly. Is there anyone who has some thoughts on how this will effect the the European and Asian economies?

Trade will suffer badly... but what about e.g. the Euro? Fuel prices? Food prices?

Anyone who can make an educated summary about this?

Would be very much appreciated!

As I understand this with regards to Fannie & Freddie, the securities/debts/call them what you will are not held by the US, they are held by a large majority by foreign investors, funds, governments, etc, as treasuries, with China being a massive stake holder.

The F&F treasuries are clearly marked as NOT being guaranteed by the US government, & so the holders of those treasuries recieve a big premium in their returns in exchange for holding the risk themselves.

Now, if the US Govt were to bail them out, then it would ultimately be the US tax payer who would be paying, but this would hardly be right - the holders/investors/speculators have already been getting bigger returns because they hold the risk - if they then "get out of jail free" because YOU all pay to bail out F&F, then you are in effect subsidising the foreign investors/banks/etc yourselves, letting them have big fat returns & then giving them their money back!

However, if the US govt allows them to go bust say, & the Chinese were to lose say $1 Trillion on it, what would they do with the other $8 Trillion (or whatever unbelievable number it is) - they'd probably dump the Dollars onto the market causing a run on the Dollar.


What should they do? Make you, the struggling US taxpayer cough up even more, or run the risk of a financial tsunami?

The Chinese et al will end up just using those Dollars to buy up every US corporation & asset they can get their hands on anyway - they hold enough Dollars to buy outright every stock market listed company in the US & UK already apparently.

I know that everyone is looking at the big money picture but in my post earlier in this thread I point to the true culprit that started all this mess:

Ameriquest Mortgage.

Google the following:

America's Ambassador to the Netherlands - Queen Beatrix

Google Queen Beatrix - She is one of the permanent members of Bilderberg

It seems that many in this thread are playing the stock market but don't you all see that your contributing to the problem?? There are some influential members who have contributed to this thread and talk about there "Betting" habits, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't do America any good.

I believe that Bush appointed Roland Arnel to his position because he helped set off the current crises that were in. This has been going on for a long time now and all of a sudden were surprised about Bank take overs and foreclosures. Look into the "SMALL" settlement that Ameriquest Mortgage paid out considering its vast profits that they made. I saw there tactics by first hand experience.

reply to post by titian

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It's just too hard to be long options and win. The bid ask spreads are ridiculous and the decaying premium kills as well. The only way to make consistent mone in options is to sell them IMHO.

It's probably easier to just buy short ETFs like SKF or UDN.

My husband has his student loan with Fannie Mae. What happens to this loan if Fannie collapses? They can't reposess his education. We're up to date on loan payments, so what does this mean to us?

*Edit to say Nevermind, my bad his is Sally Mae not Fannie Mae. Sorry for the confusion.

[edit on 7/17/2008 by darkelf]

Anyone see the hearings this week in CONgress with Bernake and Paulson. Paulson (tres sec) is asking for a blank check from congress to be able to bailout Fannie and Freddie, but "he doesn't expect to have to use it he jsut wants to have it. Also there was a request that any funds used by the treasury to bail out FNM or FRE not be applied to the debt ceiling. Absolutely infurating grab at power from the executive branch, and abdication of responsibillity by CONgress if this goes through.

Also, there was wind from the SEC about "short sellers". They've made it illegal to "naked short" FNM, FRE, or primary dealers. My understanding was it was already illegal to naked short, just never enforced. Then after it sparked a short covering rally in financials the SEC came out today and said that Market Makers, will continue to be able to "naked" short. Naked shorting is not done at the retail level, a retail short (like myself) has to find the shares to borrow (not necessarily easy with financials right now ) usually having to call the brokerage to find the shares to short.

I'm trying to find a post made before this past monday (july 14) that talked about the financial hearing in Congress this week. Seems like someone posted almost exactly what would happen while Bernake and Paulson were testifying in regards to GSE's and the dumping of stock. I don't remember which thread it was in, it could have been one of multiple economy related or possibly one of the Ron Paul threads. As I was watching the hearings what was mentioned in that post really came to mind and would like to reply to it in the thread it was in as well as star it. I've used the search and can't seem to find it.