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The Usa should go Isolationist

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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THANK you sir. I been thinking the same for some time now. Ring our borders with all the outsourced forces and take care of the mainland. I have had it with sticking our nose in every Tom, Dick, and Harry's business. Bring our troops home. Let them defend the motherland. And let us fix our infrastructure. Including tricking out every means available to get off foreign oil dependence. I know this was a common theme during WW2.
But this time I believe it makes perfect sense.
Thank you for your thread.




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I pretty much completely agree with your general idea that we'd be better off isolating ourselves from the rest of the world. Unfortunately, we're a few decades too late to really do this in a practical way. We don't really need anything from foreign nations - there are plenty of natural resources and, obviously, there's no dearth in intellectual and physical capability. But the rest of the world's grown so damn dependant on the United States (and that's our own fault for getting so mixed up in overseas affairs during the 20th century) that they will not leave us alone if we choose to ignore them. If we're going to be forced to have international relations, I'd prefer to have them on our own terms.

But we really do need to take steps to ween the world off the American teat. Here are the steps I want us to take, in order of priority.

1. Enforce our border and make it extremely difficult (with fines and the threat of arrest) for American businesses to hire illegal and undocumented immigrants. Allow police officers to question a person's citizenship during apprehension and act upon what is discovered. Make English the official language of the United States and end the practice of using any other language in any government-funded program or document (including public schools, obviously). Close our borders to anyone seeking to immigrate here legally or otherwise from a predominantly Muslim country (using clever language to sidestep the freedom of religion clause, of course).

2. Allow oil companies to drill for oil here in the United States pretty much wherever they want. At the same time, increase nuclear power production.

3. End the practice of spending any amount of money on foreign aid - whether it is in the form of food or disaster relief effort - unless the money is going directly to a member of NATO and specific plans are in place for them to pay us back in a timely manner.

4. Only go to war if the United States' national security is directly threatened or in order to protect or obtain American resources. Never become entangled in any way in a conflict outside of the Americas with the goal of nation-building or regime change, and only do so sparingly in our own hemisphere (for the interests of national security).

5. Close our borders to anyone seeking refugee status.

6. End all diplomatic relations with Israel and assume a neutral stance in their affairs with other Middle Eastern nations.

7. Make an agreement with China to basically sell them Taiwan. We break all ties to Taiwan and cut them off from our economy and in return, China pays us off with money and resources.

That's just off the top of my head, but you get the idea.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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"Oh booo hooo, the world dosen't like us, we're going to go over there and play alone"

Grow up


The reality of the situation is that the USA has been used as the military branch of elitist powerplays, if it's population can see this and correct it, then the USA can have a healthy relationship with any country on earth. Nobody hates the US, everyone hates the elitists, that have neither flag nor loyalty but their family crests. Besides, globalism is a cat that is out of the bag, get used to living in the real world, it's not going anywhere.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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Isolationism in theory is a wonderful idea. I too am tired of all the unappreciative and resentful attitudes from the rest of the world. Sometimes I think we should just do what they want, and get out. Leave them alone. Surely they will quickly realize how much they need us, but of course we wont go back. It will be their loss, and they will suffer the consequences.

However, Isolationism in practice could lead to ignorance and fear. Fear of the rest of the world. Perhaps a few generations after we become isolationists, the typical American's view of the outside world will be negatively affected.

In any case, it is probably too late now. We have our hand in too many things.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Well I guess it's true that a lot of Europeans don't appreciate the actions of the US in dragging us into the Iraq/Afghanistan situations. But they're not real wars, they were just invasions. I'm talking about a real world war where the European mainland was under threat of destruction. The current Middle East situations would be put behind us if we had a more important clear enemy threat (which there isn't in Afghanistan), and surely the USA wouldn't just sit there and watch?

I agree that if the USA was to go isolationist and NATO be abolished, the EU would need a more prominent military to ward off and invaders. But we do have our MAD deterrent in the form of British and French nukes and also power projection through politics.

And by the way, Europeans don't just 'hate Americans'. We (well on behalf of the Brits anyway) just feel like we've been dragged into a pointless war by Mr. Bush and tarnished our reputation and made a lot of enemies because of it. But we'd still get behind you and be well up for a fight if the USA was under threat. Which is why we'd expect your help in return. And contrary to what you might think, Europe would be a good ally to have if anything kicked off, we've been at the center of the World Wars a couple of times.

[edit on 11/7/2008 by malganis]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Zepherian
"Oh booo hooo, the world dosen't like us, we're going to go over there and play alone"

Grow up


The reality of the situation is that the USA has been used as the military branch of elitist powerplays, if it's population can see this and correct it, then the USA can have a healthy relationship with any country on earth. Nobody hates the US, everyone hates the elitists, that have neither flag nor loyalty but their family crests. Besides, globalism is a cat that is out of the bag, get used to living in the real world, it's not going anywhere.



Why grown ups are miserable... Grown ups marry for money sometimes, grown ups work really hard and get themselves sick doing it just so they can spend all the money they made dying in the hospital...

why grow up?

"If thou shalt not enter into the kingdom of heaven as a child then in no wise shall thee eneter there in"

Grown up... very often means slow brain damage, grown ups compromise everything do immoral things because they are scared and tired...

You said it perfectly pal... America is 200 years old, we are fresh, young and excited...

and what this world is, is full of miserbale nations and ideologies that have conformed and are old... and miserable, and fight all the time...

If We represented the US as a Kid we'd be around 12 now..and all these older kids wish us to, join their gangs or get jobs, pick a religion, follow some cause...

and that's where we are loosing our fredom, our identity... our youth these last few decades...

Yeah... as a 12 year old nation for all intents and purposes, I don't want to be involved with the older kids... they fight alot and do bad things and they keep tricking me into doing bad things and it will get me introuble...

Me...America, i'm still 12 and my brothers Canada and mexico are 11 and 13 respectively and... we have a big yard and alot of toys...and we are still figuring ourselves out... no old Jew or Arab is going to tell me to get a job in the community just yet, I have growing to do...

and i'm not breaking windows and don't want to be there when the trouble starts, because some of these kids are punks a couple of them carry gunsand just because i'm a big strong kid...but young they treat me like i'm gulliable and take my money and rip me off and make fun of me behind my back... and i'm going to end up doing something that gets me in trouble, maybe killed if I hang out with those kids, they suck

So, yeah, a smart kid would take his toys and go in the yard with his brothers and work out and play and study hard and get educated and eat good and grow up strong

and if the kids ourt front get arrested or shot.. it's their G-d damn problem not mine

so NO... it's not time to grow up... and globalism isn't IT, it's a gang, and this kid doesn't belong in a gang



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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Originally posted by prototism
Isolationism in theory is a wonderful idea. I too am tired of all the unappreciative and resentful attitudes from the rest of the world. Sometimes I think we should just do what they want, and get out. Leave them alone. Surely they will quickly realize how much they need us, but of course we wont go back. It will be their loss, and they will suffer the consequences.

However, Isolationism in practice could lead to ignorance and fear. Fear of the rest of the world. Perhaps a few generations after we become isolationists, the typical American's view of the outside world will be negatively affected.

In any case, it is probably too late now. We have our hand in too many things.


I'm not talking about social isolation or travel isolation or...not going to the olympics... Just, political nutrality, economic independence and personal development

Not leading the world in any way except by example

and as a person in life, I have my own money, I buy my own food, I keep my own place, I drive my own car, I work for myself not at a job...

I don't not have friends, I just don't loan them money, I don't hang out or join in fights, I feed myself and no one else I don't specifically invite into my house...

these are things every single person knows, not to get involved too deeply with ypur neighbors, don't involve yourself in their fights, don't trade food and go in and out of each thers houses...

why is this different for a country? Do any of you have a poor neighbor you have ed for the last 40 years? Do you run powerlines to each others homes and let the rich guy on the block pay for everyones electricity?

Of course you don't... if theres a fight on your block you call the police...

This neighborhood has no police, Americas been doing the job, but we are just one of several neighbors with a gun, not our place to break up domestic disputes or local gangs...

a way this is handled needs working out... in the real world poor people get food stamps, you don't go to the guy with the biggest fridge and demand he give them food...

sometimes neighbors help, when they Need to...

what we have as a nation is a role as mayor, cop and fireman, andour family is falling apart because we work to hard and honestly our neighbors are kind of ghetto...

I don't want to get shot, find a policeman, go down to the store and plant some seeds, get africa food stamps, I just Live here to and it's not my fault if other people lose their jobs or get on dope or beat their kids...

I have a nice yard a nice family a full fridge and I try to be of service for a decent wage and i'm good with money...

that doesn't mean I make my neighbors house payments for him, or get inbetween him and the guy next door because he Fd the other guys wife... I have kids and a family of my own to think about

can you get that?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


Nice analogy, if a bit long winded. After reading I was left with the thought "who's your daddy?" echoing in my mind.

But your analogy hints at my point if you go through with it logically. 12 year old's just can't live on their own, they need community and guidance. And I can agree, the world is a gang. But you have to admit, at least for the last decade or two, the US has been the gang leader.

This current US situation is all about growing pains, a young nation realising that it can't hope to bend the world to it's slightly childish desires, no matter how cool the toys it has, and realising it has been played, indeed is being played, by older, more cynical powers that know very well what they're doing.

Nobody wants an isolationist US, we're all part of the same planet, but we do wish for a more mature one. We have massive problems to solve, especially the insidious socioeconomic ones, and we all need to chip in. Sulking won't achieve anything.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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This post was originally written, because there was so much US bashing going on... Up until the Russians woke up...

Suddenly it is almost all but gone


So here's the big question... was I right or wrong, a few weeks ago, we were garbage world wide... now suddenly the world wants our assistance yet again... no one is posting anti American anything

and once again we face our death and desturuction for... a part of the world the fighting never stops in...

I have no answer atm... but curious about how everyone feels atm...

Isolationist? Or once again put ourselves in front of the fire for wars and peoples and conflicts that have nothing to do with North America (or at least shouldn't)



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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Great post Mopus and I couldn't agree more.


There is absolutely no product in existence that we cannot produce for ourselves within our own borders, giving Americans jobs and returning our manufacturing base which has traditionally been the back bone of America.

There is nothing that we need from foreign souces that we cannot obtain or manufacture here in North America. If we brought our troops home we would not only be a safer and stronger nation but we would also have a boost in man power.

The argument that there are certain jobs Americans wont do is just baloney. Who did these jobs for the past decades before illegal immigration took hold?

We could still trade openly with Mexico and Canada, and still trade with outside nations as well. There definitely should be tarriff reforms made as well as new guidelines and taxation for importing and exporting that favor America and not other countries looking to exploit our dollars through cheap produce and slave labor.

Instead of giving away billions of dollars worth of food each year in surplus we should keep it and distribute it to needy Americans and even use it to help improve conditions in Mexico.

If we were able to significantly raise the standard of living in Mexico then North America itself would thrive and be all but inpenetrable for outside invasion. If we invest our dollars into our own country and our own economy we will also not be sending billions of dollars to fund rogue governments and terrorist states who wish to harm us.

America needs to become independant and look out for our own, stop trying to police or govern the world, and work on strengthening our own infrastructure. Funny how these are all ideal that Ron Paul has suggested over and over again, yet most of you never hear about it.


The best part is that we can close our borders to foreigners who wish to come here and exploit our universities and our way of life. Let the rest of the world fend for themselves and only intervene in any situation when US interests are directly effected. That way none of these complainers around the globe who seem to hate Americans so much will have the comfort of blaming us as the scapegoat for all of the ills of the world.

Let them get humanitarian aid from China or Russia (yeah right) Lets see these middle eastern countries thrive when dollars stop flowing in. The time has come for America to look out for Americans and let the rest of the world do whatever they wish, it isnt our problem.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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The world wants your assistance? No, Georgia, another one of your pocket dictatorships, has messed up and wants you to come and bail it out. The world, at least the part of it that has a clue, just can't understand why you guys keep flogging the dead horse of American Imperialism.

And the elites keep having their way with the US, as if the whole country was on some sort of date rape drug.

Not much has really changed.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by BlackOps719
 


You know, I couldn't agree more, so many people are busy concerned about mexican immigration but as a cu;lture and people go mexicans are mostly catholic which fits in fine with our demographics, at least 1/2 European and the othe rhalf Native...which is nothing but right in terms of the whole picture to help them along...

and we give tons of mony and effort very far away... Mexico should get more us support and bette treatment



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Zepherian
 


Yah, okay... Europe is just... really into going it alone without US right now... come on, I said I hadn't formed an opinion yet...but European American bashing has suuuure slowed the heck down in the media, in this forum and anywhere else you look.



posted on Aug, 19 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


That's because everyone is scared senseless nukes will start popping sometime soon, it is not a sign of support.

Also, do realise that in these insane times any official positions are almost surely against the popular opinion and will, case in point france, which is probably thinking "What the hell is Sarkozy doing?! Shut the hell up you gimp!" Expect a cold winter in France as their central heating gets turned off for lack of gas.

And meanwhile the billionaires (trillionaires?) are just behind the curtain pulling the strings on this madness.

For the record, I'm not antiamerican, a lot of you are going to suffer a lot if you don't wake up to the reality of elitist political manipulation, and it is something I regret. However, you have been complacent with the status quo, something which is true for western europe too, so this isn't holier than thou.

Anyways, to end on a positive note, whatever the hell happens, best of luck to all the people with good hearts, and may the ones with black hearts come to their senses before everthing goes down the crapper.



posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by jpm1602
 

Im glad I am not the only one feeling this way. Been preparing for this and the one who said the Bible predicted it is right on.



posted on Nov, 11 2008 @ 11:12 AM
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none of this is our problem, Europeans want to bag us, then, become Islamic, who cares? I don't if they don't...


As someone who does actually live in Europe. All I can say is, you have no idea what you talking about. Which is funny, because you're complaining about how the rest of the world misunderstands you. Many European countries are having race-related issues which involve the contrary to the trend you say they are. Religious profiling is a huge issue here.




I mean, am I wrong? Why even play a bad guy in posts? Why be involved in any of it anymore?


Forgetting the fact that you made the thread yourself, and claim to be playing the part of the "Ugly American", nobody asked you to. You ask why the world sees the U.S as monsters, then write a monstrous post where you openly advocate letting Africa starve and various other thoughtless points.

You claim that the U.S can be self-sufficient. Good luck on that one. It's possible I suppose, but you'd have to be willing to sacrifice your global hegemony, recall your cultural and military empire, and watch as you are superseded in influence and power. Not something I believe the majority of Americans (aside from the Paulite revolutionaries would ever truly consider).

Yes, the world needs U.S trade. But nowhere near as much as you need the worlds, as things stand today. An example would be this:

www.innovations-report.com...




A new report by the Energy Forum at Rice University's Baker Institute for Public Policy finds that the United States will continue to rely on imported natural gas even if areas that are currently restricted are opened up to drilling.


And there are many more. Even if you were to become self-sufficient, theoretically, it would take many many years. I wish you, your pastures and your bike the best of luck. You'll be needing it.



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