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The Usa should go Isolationist

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:04 AM
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I think the american public would be pretty po'd if we said "you have to buy made in USA only goods". Think about it. How much would it cost to build a DVD player in the USA? What would it retail for? You cant run a factory in the USA with labor cheap enough to make certain things affordable to the majority of the public. I know, it sucks, but it is unfortunatly the way of the world today.




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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I agree 100% with Op

And to the guy above who said we where in debt we could pay that debt off in no time if we would stop spending our money on wars in the middleeast and giving it away.

Leave the rest of the world alone then if someone messes with us we can blow them off the map and noone can say anything.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
i know we all are suppost to hate walmart

but where else will i get anything at 4am on a weekday?

if local markets were willing to stay open past midnight...maybe walmart wouldn't be so powerful. as much as i dislike their policys, they do cater to me by staying open 24/7

im just pointing out a reason behind the way things are this way.

its because mom and pop werent willing to adapt to the new market.
all they need to do is get their kids to run the shop at night lol



[edit on 11-7-2008 by muzzleflash]


Why do you need to go at 4am? I mean seriously, we have brought this on ourselves. Plan a little, go on the weekend or a day off. Just playing devil advocate. People in the past worked 3rd shift without the need to shop at 4am, why cant you? The american people are partially responsible for some of these stores policies. Kinda like the blue laws. Nothing used to be open on sunday, but now its just another day.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


This is such an incredibly broad post that I can't begin to gather my thoughts and whittle it down to a single statement. I just want to say "I agree with you" and thanks for posting this.

In my mind, "they" - those within and out of the country will always find a reason to hate us. It would take generations to breed it out of the collective psyche. When we pull back, they'll hate us for leaving. It's simply a case of "yeah, go ahead and bite the hand that feeds you. Demand it. Hate them for giving it. Demand some more. Require more..." I'm not saying we shouldn't try - it'll just be real hard.

Someone said become a welfare state!?!?!?! We already are a welfare state in many ways and all it has done is create hatred and a sense of continued entitlement to those stuck in it. People are happier when they are responsible for themselves - even if they don't know it or are too lazy to find out.

I'll happily ride the tractor



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by Wotan
reply to post by mopusvindictus
 
If you want to be Isolated you dont need:- A large Navy, especially carriers, large military as its now just a defence force, you dont need overseas bases as there is no longer any need. Isolationism is inward not outward projection, hence you no longer need a large military .... just enough to defend your country.


Having too much is always better than having not enough.

And as far as you not living in America, that doesn't matter. Say whatever you like. It's not like anyone is making this an official doctrine or something.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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i just imagine (if that happened) americans running in circles , searching for anybody that would work especially the hard work that nobody wants to do(only the illegals).



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by wheresthetruth
In the self-contained country scenario, I would fully support the NAU. Let me explain.

If we closed off the borders with the rest of the world, we could open up the border to Canada and Mexico and allow free travel for all. There would not be a need to call it the North American Union, just open it up in the same manner. All three countries keep their own individual identity and culture, only with open sharing of trade and travel.



This is exactly what I'm saying, as a continent there is very little we need if anything at all, there are still tons of hidden resources up in the islands above canada and greeland as global warming progresses could become a major factor...

it doesn't matter exactly how we do it but if we are going to get in this much sh and debt for Asian and European issues I don't see why we need to be global, regional is the natural first step to bringing the world together



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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I've been reading this post with some interest and find myself sitting on a fence that has way more than two sides.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by dracodie
 


I don't believe anyone works quite as hard as the farmer. Perhaps people would work more eagerly and take more pride in producing solely for their own nation's consumption? And you know what? Those not willing to do so can feel free to, well, go without.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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Originally posted by coop039
I think the american public would be pretty po'd if we said "you have to buy made in USA only goods". Think about it. How much would it cost to build a DVD player in the USA? What would it retail for? You cant run a factory in the USA with labor cheap enough to make certain things affordable to the majority of the public. I know, it sucks, but it is unfortunatly the way of the world today.


Well I kind of including mexico in a straightening out of the north american situation which would help on this topic.

But really, in all seriousness, walmarts cheep goods don't save us a dime, they break sooner, you replace them more often and the size of the stor mandates the impulse buy...

and lets face it, when you go to walmart or other super stores, everything is laid out to force you past a million items and then you spend just as much buying something you didn't intend to by...

except then you become attached to it and when both break 6 months later you replace both

so you loose money at walmart

here's the thing if a walmart has 1 employee in 20 sections in your neighborhood, that's 20 of your neighbors embloyed for 8-10.00 an hr

If it wasn't there, that would become 20 small businesses in your community owned by local residents who would have dramatically increased incomes, not needing the same kind of profits for a family as walmart makes per employee, each would hire at least 3 other people for the same 8-10.00

thats as an example 60 new jobs of equal pay and 20 families raised to upper middle class and spending the money locally

that's a huge difference in every neighbor hood

Now factor in supermarkets and home depots with the same numbers
you'd have butcher shops again and you'd have paint stores and lumber yards... the reality is Home depot and walmart and massive supermarket probably strip a neighborhood of more like 40 businesses each and maybe 10 for the supermarkets

thats 50 upper middle class families per neighbor hood, less divorces, less crime, and 150-200 more jobs as a minimum...

that transforms a ghetto to a middle class neighborhood, this is where the middle class vanished entirely

It really was cooler the other way, walmart is fast and open all night, but... I was happier when I knew the owners of businesses, when I was a kid if it was a couple of days before payday, the butcher would throw my mom some steaks, it was good commerce, a bit lower, but definitively better quality

and it made a neighborhood, we knew our neighbors, we had to behave at a higher standards, the kid getting arrested on the corner wasn''t some stranger it was bernie the shoe repairmans son, people cared about each other, you knew the locl police because you spent time on foot in your neighborhoods...

you can't have a police state in a high foot traffic neighborhood where people interact... your friends with the local cops...

so, it was better... the poster who said late at night 4:00 am... this is also about not being so busy you have to be out at 4:00 am... and you know what the diner was always open, so was the candy store around 4:00 to recieve the shipments and... small busineses would form to cater to any need



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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I completely agree!! I have a couple of threads on this issue myself.


[edit on 11-7-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by dracodie
i just imagine (if that happened) americans running in circles , searching for anybody that would work especially the hard work that nobody wants to do(only the illegals).


I kind of don't think so...

LazyAmerican has become a word since Mc Jobs made our lives meaningless, since rules made work no fun... a small businesses rules are the desires of who owns it, not of some faceless entity

My buddy Mark has a job right now at a chain food establishment.

He makes 9.00 an hr after a year

he can not date or fraternize on the job ever, so long hrs mean no social life, not with customers or staff

he can not take home food, even though it's a food establishment, they throw it in the garbage rather than give it to an employee

likewise he has to pay on the job for a snack, not even a soda, you could drop dead, they wouldn't give you a friggin soda no small business owner does that

he can't pass a discount to friends or family

he can't miss a day or be late with an explanation, if he does it's a write up...who with a family could adhere to this, 3 write ups your fired, this assures that the employees over any span of time turn over and wages stay low, there is no hope

the other day his register pulled 11,000.00 give or take, for a small business he'd almost surely get a bonus, not at the chain, not ever, he got his 70.00 lol

soooo why work at a place like that, what kind of life is this to not become a "lazy american"

I say if pride and enjoyment returns to work, peoples pride would return as well...

and this is'nt the 50's i'm talking about, I still enjoyed a nice job in like, 89 lol okay not generations ago... political correctness and cheep corporate money grabbing policies... have made the bulk of low skill jobs suck, and even high skill jobs... in the late 80's at 18 I worked on wall street, I could go out for a drink at lunch, if I took a break no one clocked me, my boss decided if I was loafing if I needed days off not some faceless policy, I had alot of un all day I worked 10 x harder

even the prior job i had which was at a deli counter at 17, I would be allowed within reason to eat, got regular wages, time and half and double time on holidays... I loved that job, no one told me I couldn't flirt with the cashiers or have fun, boss let us have a few beers if we worked late..

work was a pleasure

not with walmart and mcdonalds and homedepot it isn't



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by glad_to_be_His
reply to post by dracodie
 


I don't believe anyone works quite as hard as the farmer. Perhaps people would work more eagerly and take more pride in producing solely for their own nation's consumption? And you know what? Those not willing to do so can feel free to, well, go without.


Our farms give us everything we need and farmers are the healthiest most moral people 99% of the time... it's a good life...

yet we sell the mideast our grain for 8.00 a bushell and they trade us oil for 140.00 a barel, we give africa free food everyday and may other places...

and why? Our food is the single most important resource on erth, people can drive less, corn makes oil ... we don't Need the middle east

Why is our food treated like shi7, why is it something we should donate at low prices because other nations are disfunctional, how did we become mom?

It's a nice thing but... it's not our job to work harder than anyone in Europe sell our food cheep, get paid less and then be extorted over oil because we are rich fat americans...

get a shovel, dig a ditch grow some food, your backs are as strong as ours... and we defend everyone to, it's sick, Europe enjoys free health care yet, Russia occupied Germany just over a decade ago, if you look at Europe as a single entity it's far more hostie then the Usa, there are wars right now or within recent years in Europe... if you compare it to a "United States" Bosnia and Yugoslavia etc... that would be like Arizona and New mexico getting into it... it's ridiculous that we pay our money to defend the place and then we are called names for it...

We haven't had violence in the states in 150 years or so... Europe is like beverly hills calls itself a nation and says it's better than Europe Even though Compton next door is in civil war

and... then we send tyhose places food for free too... why is so much of our food free or cheep... does anyone need food less than oil... we have the monooly between us and canada and the 2 ONLY important resources, food and water and then after that Lumber...

we deserve to be the richest nations on Earth, we hav the best most important resources, no one gives us charity on oil, we should grow bio diesel and let them fend for themselves... I didn't have 8 kids I had 2 kids... I deserve to be rewarded with a steak



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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I agree with some points that North America could do well as isolationist.

One question on your views on allies in Europe. If a world war were to kick off, and Europe were to come under serious attack from Russia/China/Middle East, would you be willing to aid us or would you want to just sit by and watch us be destroyed?

Because if America were under attack, Europe would be there to help you.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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There's no money in Isolationism, and no influence. Definitely not what a Imperialist Democratic Republic's government would want.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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Yep, my favorite job was waitressing at an all night diner. My boss was awesome. He left us to our own devices (within reason). We took food home. The whole POINT was flirting with the customers
and it was great for business. We ate anything we wanted and took food home. We fed the poor homeless man at the end of the counter until the day he died. He smelled a little but we really cared about him. College kids bought food for him. He had friends. He was warm. The opportunity for human kindness was virtually endless. It was the best job and I was happy to come in extra hours when my boss needed me. I remember once another waitress and I went in on Labor Day (it was closed) just to clean (made the next work day easier for us) and hang out. We blasted the radio and our boss showed up with flowers, wine coolers, and pizza for us. Awwww.... That stuff could be happening all over again.

That was in the 90's - not that long ago. The diner is gone. The incredible culture of that South Pittsburgh neighborhood is gone now due to a bit of sprawl and yuppie chains obliterating the mom and pop stores. Crime is up. Jobs are down. It's the same story over and over again. No one in power does anything but make it worse.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by malganis
 


That's the problem isn't it? You are either isolationist or not. Hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube as they say. But it can be done although it is messy, I've tried it


The Europeans yelling about us are no worse (and maybe no more numerous) than the Americans doing the same US bashing. Acutally the Americans are worse. I myself prefer to air my dirty laundry in the privacy of my home not yell it in the streets.

I like the idea of being isolationist, but the question of European attack is tricky for me. In my mind, the UK and US are still family.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by malganis
I agree with some points that North America could do well as isolationist.

One question on your views on allies in Europe. If a world war were to kick off, and Europe were to come under serious attack from Russia/China/Middle East, would you be willing to aid us or would you want to just sit by and watch us be destroyed?

Because if America were under attack, Europe would be there to help you.


That is a very tough question, I think the awnser to that lays with the EU

Honestly and no offense it's comfortable in alot of ways it is not here in western Europe and northern europe particularly, i have to be frank when I say as an alliance Nato stinks, we are Nato,

What I hear from "the street" of Europe is that our actions are not appreciated, that we are ignorant, that this war is stupid etc, etc etc...

As I see it, Europe is under attack... Culturally, is dependent on Russian oil and while Russian tanks aren't on one ide of Berlin anymore... they kind of have an economic strangle hold

so we are pissing of Russia installing a Missile shield in Europe, we provide forward bases you live under Our MAD umbrella that My taxes pay for, we drew the line in the sand that Russia couldn't pass through the whole cold war, our shield is going to stop rouge states in the mideast from nuking your countries... not us,

So, I guess the awnser to this is no, because we went to war for oil, sure gas went up etc, but, it also is a hedge against Russia taking adavantage of the oil situation, the extremists in islam threaten Europe far more than the US mainland ever...

and we are friggin really unpopular among the people of Europe

the other question is when fighting Russia or China what wol Europe do for us? What was done through this war, some troops? England did it's part kind of if that quality was matched by the rest of Europe well, maybe i'd be feeling different right now... some places sent like 300 men lol...

Could Europe do anything? Not much right now...

so I say the EU is the awnser, Isolationist has it's limits, if a monster entity was coming at Europe like a Hitler, Isolationist or not you'd want to help Europe... lets say a China gone mad across Asia or a Returned Soviet union or our absence create a unified middle east

But, Europe has squat for an Army and what is there is under a dozen different flags so not organized for a good united defense...

The EU, has to man it's own borders, it has to spend, maybe not quite what we do, but it should have a real military that could hold off and keep Russia at bay

if not, then I think, we need to back out of there, because we spend a Trillion a year and we don't have lives anymore, we are going bankrupt and it's not fair at all... our education system sucks and I hear stupid Americans everyday

so I think w are in the wrong direction, if we back out Europe would have to do its fair share and defend it's own interests

and when, it had a vuiable deterent and the ability to be a world power along side us, yeah we could be allies, we should be allies

but not anymore, nt like this... okay Hitlers dead a long time, it's a new Europe, it should a s a continent have as many Carriers and subs as us, it's own mad deterent and it's own advanced weapons systems and eough tanks to handle a land battle

we build g-d knows how many tanks... and whos rolling across kansas? no one, it's to send to other places to defend them, Europen life and eduction is better than ours so we can do this for you...and we get made fun of for doing it, my kids suffer having gone from no 1 in education to like no 40...

so right now, the awnser would be No, not if it's going to be all about us, we could pull out slowly in fairness, not leave a vaccum... I mean, i'm a human being. Bt I think it neds to be done... Europe needs to contain Russia and the Mideast, Europe needs an army proper... it's your neighbors, your at risk...

don't get me wrong, I love Europe and most Europeans, honestly I do... but you Deserve your own proper defense, individually the soviets were picking you apart, I understand Why we got there...

so we have defended Europe plenty, you could abely be there for us... if we need you and your barely here for us right now and if the people had their way...wouldn't be at all...

as an EU, it's just time to buck up and spend some money and lighten our load we are at a Trillion a year and still over extended, we are at risk of loosing a major war if one happens, then we are both rolled over...what the heck good is that?


Europe should be our ally, but as strong as the US, do every thing posible to assure we don';t have to come back to your dang continent for the 3rd time in 100 years, it's not fair already, we haven't had war on our continent in 150 years and we foot the bill for all this nonsense.

Isreals defense shold be the EU, you put Isreal there or at least some of your nations did...

we shouldn't Have to respond to Kuwait, or Bosnia or any other small wars in your backyard... it's your region to poice, the soviets are your problem, if over run, I don't want us to not be the United States when you need us...

but for cryin out loud we are close to not being able to respond... europe needs to get military again, Germany is a nation of ravers not nazis today, it's okay to have a real army lol, these are your borders...



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by FullMechaPilot!
There's no money in Isolationism, and no influence. Definitely not what a Imperialist Democratic Republic's government would want.


Who says the average citizen of the Usa wants to be an imperialist nation? We kind of slowly got pulled into this role and we are kind of stuck on it but...

I just want to live and we have no natural border enemies and no food issue and no resource issue and no water issues...

so everything else is banter over greed, lumber or houses, metals, water to drink food to eat, slightly less efficent or cost effective...but all the fuel we could ever need...

so, Rich? what's rich? Money? I don't think so Rich is the life you lead, Europeans right now are richer than we are, quality of life wise... houses are made from trees and rocks... if your fed and ... you know what I mean?

We aren't an Imperialist people, our governemnt wasn't imperalist either


and the reality is China is holding our debts to go after the oil, the Saudis are too, leaders in eurpe support this against their peoples wishes...

why? because we have become for hire and thats messed up... we are the military but our president isn't doing this for us... and we are zeroed at every angle...

We aren't an imperialist people, we are still a mainly agriculture based nation, the whole center, half or more of our country is farms and nature preserves, our cities are service oriented as far as the population goes, night clubs , entertauinment hollywood, dining... 30 million of us are in communications (service) work via phone...

as a people go we are adamantly service to other...

and some springer shows and our military nonsense has made us the world police and only are military and govt likes that... and thats a few million of 300 million people



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 


I couldnt have said it better, I agree with you entirely!!in fact you must have read my thoughts!I would say more but youve covered it all


thank you so much ,I hope alot of people(especialy Citizens of our country)read this post



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