John Kerry is PRICELESS!

Originally posted by jsobecky
Bush was the owner of the 9/11 tragedy.....so how does keeping someone whose administration allowed the most devastating attack on American soil in our HISTORY......keep us SAFER!?!?

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Bush was the owner of the 9/11 tragedy? The only way he "owns" it is that he happened to be in charge when it happened. He's done a great job tracking the remaining scumbags down since.

He "allowed" it to happen? Next thing we know, youll be accusing him of planning it.

But wait! Two of the planes flew out of Boston, MASS. that day! That's Kerry''s state isn't it? Kerry must have been in on it! I mean, we can get real wacko here if we just abandon logic...

john

Born yesterday & you can type AND surf the Internet!?! Damn Baby Bunting....you've got skillz!!
Probably the most written about topic on this site: the Bush Administrations complicity in the event leading to , and after, 9/11.
Psst.....hit the search button!

Baseless allegations and politically motivated conclusions do not count, BT. Come on, work with a brother!

The reason John Kerry is gaining in the polls is because he is going around (conveniently off camera most of the time) telling anyone who shows interest in his presence precisely whatever they want to hear. He is telling Jewish people that he deeply understands and supports Israels need for their protective wall, while telling Arabs that the wall is a serious impass to the peace process and that it must come down for example. I understand that politicians making promises they have no intention of keeping is nothing new to politics, but you eventually have to stand your ground on something. Bush has already made himself clear about where he stands on most of the important issues. Kerry attacks Bush's policies vigorously all the while being unable to produce any viable solutions, other than going back to the international country club (oh, sorry...I mean UN) and start kissing their asses.

Whenever they get around to serious televised debating between him and Bush, Kerry will be cornered into finally making himself clear (clear being the key word) on where he really stands on some of these serious (some life and death) issues he is intensly trying to play both sides on. I 'm sorry, but there is only so much heavy duty spinning someone can do before their head rolls clean off their shoulders.

As for the manufacturing jobs situation, I think the blame lies more on greedy labor unions and hard core environmentalists with too much influence. It is impossible to compete with other countries with manufactured goods when employers over here are forced to pay someone 26 dollars an hour (including all the benefits most Americans can only dream about affording) to put a handfull of screws into peice of metal and push it down an assembly line. I agree that we need a strong industrial base, but (fortunately so far) we are not socialists or communists, we are CAPITALISTS. American businesses are not owned and controlled by the government, only regulated and rather loosly compared to most other countries. As much as it seems to displease many people, they have the freedom to do whatever they want with their businesses, just like everyone else has the right not to buy their products when they do something that displeases them (like outsourcing).



[Edited on 9-3-2004 by Crazyhorse]

Originally posted by Bout Time

Born yesterday & you can type AND surf the Internet!?! Damn Baby Bunting....you've got skillz!!
Probably the most written about topic on this site: the Bush Administrations complicity in the event leading to , and after, 9/11.
Psst.....hit the search button!

Complicity. Yeah, right. Go put your alumnum foil hat on now, so the CIA can't read you thoughts. Don't forget to drink your goblin juice....

Hahah Jsobecky made you look like a idiot. Ironically it was ABOUT TIME. Oh you been ZAPPED.

Anyways, no one really answered my one attack on Kerry on page on and I was looking for a little challenge. Bueller?

Get a F*(@# Clue people have been hungry for years and our educations system has been screwed up for twice as long, the Democrats havent been able to solve it up to know what makes you think they will be able to now.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is exactly this attitude why many things are screwed up. I guess one figures it is alright for people to starve as long as it is not them or a member of their family? Not exactly the spiritual thing to think, eh?

Huh?

Now Now Beavis & B-Head, I've been "zapped" ....how?

Surely you favor a fully supported investigation into 9/11, don't you?
Don't you question why it was stonewalled by the Bush Administration until it hit a point of critical mass, and they had to concede to it?
You do remember them then trying to derail it with such appointments as Henry "Covert War" Kissinger, don't you?
You have kept on top of the commission now having to SUBPOENA the administration for testimony on 9/11, haven't you?

And from the 9/11 Families:

1. As Commander-in-Chief on the morning of 9/11, why didn�t you return immediately to Washington, D.C. or the National Military Command Center once you became aware that America was under attack? At specifically what time did you become aware that America was under attack? Who informed you of this fact?

2. On the morning of 9/11, who was in charge of our country while you were away from the National Military Command Center? Were you informed or consulted about all decisions made in your absence?

3. What defensive action did you personally order to protect our nation during the crisis on September 11th? What time were these orders given, and to whom? What orders were carried out? What was the result of such orders? Were any such orders not carried out?

4. In your opinion, why was our nation so utterly unprepared for an attack on our own soil?

5. U.S. Navy Captain Deborah Loewer, the Director of the White House Situation Room, informed you of the first airliner hitting Tower One of the World Trade Center before you entered the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. Please explain the reason why you decided to continue with the scheduled classroom visit, fifteen minutes after learning the first hijacked airliner had hit the World Trade Center.

6. Is it normal procedure for the Director of the White House Situation Room to travel with you? If so, please cite any prior examples of when this occurred. If not normal procedure, please explain the circumstances that led to the Director of the White House Situation Room being asked to accompany you to Florida during the week of September 11th.

7. What plan of action caused you to remain seated after Andrew Card informed you that a second airliner had hit the second tower of the World Trade Center and America was clearly under attack? Approximately how long did you remain in the classroom after Card�s message?

8. At what time were you made aware that other planes were hijacked in addition to Flight 11 and Flight 175? Who notified you? What was your course of action as Commander-in-Chief of the United States?

9. Beginning with the transition period between the Clinton administration and your own, and ending on 9/11/01, specifically what information (either verbal or written) about terrorists, possible attacks and targets, did you receive from any source?

This would include briefings or communications from

� Out-going Clinton officials

� CIA, FBI, NSA, DoD and other intelligence agencies

� Foreign intelligence, governments, dignitaries or envoys

� National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice

� Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism czar

10. Specifically, what did you learn from the August 6, 2001, PDB about the terrorist threat that was facing our nation? Did you request any follow-up action to take place? Did you request any further report be developed and/or prepared?

11. As Commander-in-Chief, from May 1, 2001 until September 11, 2001, did you receive any information from any intelligence agency official or agent that UBL was planning to attack this nation on its own soil using airplanes as weapons, targeting New York City landmarks during the week of September 11, 2001 or on the actual day of September 11, 2001?

12. What defensive measures did you take in response to pre-9/11 warnings from eleven nations about a terrorist attack, many of which cited an attack in the continental United States? Did you prepare any directives in response to these actions? If so, with what results?

13. As Commander-in-Chief from May 1, 2001 until September 11, 2001, did you or any agent of the United States government carry out any negotiations or talks with UBL, an agent of UBL, or al-Qaeda? During that same period, did you or any agent of the United States government carry out any negotiations or talks with any foreign government, its agents, or officials regarding UBL? If so, what resulted?

14. Your schedule for September 11, 2001 was in the public domain since September 7, 2001. The Emma E. Booker School is only five miles from the Bradenton Airport, so you, and therefore the children in the classroom, might have been a target for the terrorists on 9/11. What was the intention of the Secret Service in allowing you to remain in the Emma E. Booker Elementary School, even though they were aware America was under attack?

15. Please explain why you remained at the Sarasota, Florida, Elementary School for a press conference after you had finished listening to the children read, when as a terrorist target, your presence potentially jeopardized the lives of the children?

16. What was the purpose of the several stops of Air Force One on September 11th? Was Air Force One at any time during the day of September 11th a target of the terrorists? Was Air Force One�s code ever breached on September 11th?

17. Was there a reason for Air Force One lifting off without a military escort, even after ample time had elapsed to allow military jets to arrive?

18. What prompted your refusal to release the information regarding foreign sponsorship of the terrorists, as illustrated in the inaccessible 28 redacted pages in the Joint Intelligence Committee Inquiry Report? What actions have you personally taken since 9/11 to thwart foreign sponsorship of terrorism?

19. Who approved the flight of the bin Laden family out of the United States when all commercial flights were grounded, when there was time for only minimal questioning by the FBI, and especially, when two of those same individuals had links to WAMY, a charity suspected of funding terrorism? Why were bin Laden family members granted that special privilege�a privilege not available to American families whose loved ones were killed on 9/11?

20. Please explain why no one in any level of our government has yet been held accountable for the countless failures leading up to and on 9/11?

21. Please comment on the fact that UBL�s profile on the FBI�s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives poster does not include the 9/11 attacks. To your knowledge, when was the last time any agent of our government had contact with UBL? If prior to 9/11, specifically what was the date of that contact and what was the context of said meeting.

22. Do you continue to maintain that Saddam Hussein was linked to al Qaeda? What proof do you have of any connection between al-Qaeda and the Hussein regime?

23. Which individuals, governments, agencies, institutions, or groups may have benefited from the attacks of 9/11? Please state specifically how you think they have benefited.

Support your "team" Jr. Republicans, just don't be GOP first, American second.

I'll tackle a few of these.....

Originally posted by Bout Time
Huh?

Now Now Beavis & B-Head, I've been "zapped" ....how?

Surely you favor a fully supported investigation into 9/11, don't you?
Don't you question why it was stonewalled by the Bush Administration until it hit a point of critical mass, and they had to concede to it?
You do remember them then trying to derail it with such appointments as Henry "Covert War" Kissinger, don't you?
You have kept on top of the commission now having to SUBPOENA the administration for testimony on 9/11, haven't you?

And from the 9/11 Families:

1. As Commander-in-Chief on the morning of 9/11, why didn�t you return immediately to Washington, D.C. or the National Military Command Center once you became aware that America was under attack? At specifically what time did you become aware that America was under attack? Who informed you of this fact?

2. On the morning of 9/11, who was in charge of our country while you were away from the National Military Command Center? Were you informed or consulted about all decisions made in your absence?

3. What defensive action did you personally order to protect our nation during the crisis on September 11th? What time were these orders given, and to whom? What orders were carried out? What was the result of such orders? Were any such orders not carried out?

4. In your opinion, why was our nation so utterly unprepared for an attack on our own soil?

______________________________________

Our human intelligence capabilities had been severely compromised during the Clinton administration by people such as Toricelli and Kerry. Toricelli spearheaded the effort to prohibit gathering intelligence from anyone that didn't look like and act like a Boy Scout. Kerry voted to gut the budget of military and intelligence agencies.

Look it up. I can point you to several excellent, non-biased references, if you'd like...i.e., copies of the Congressional Record.
_______________________________

5. U.S. Navy Captain Deborah Loewer, the Director of the White House Situation Room, informed you of the first airliner hitting Tower One of the World Trade Center before you entered the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. Please explain the reason why you decided to continue with the scheduled classroom visit, fifteen minutes after learning the first hijacked airliner had hit the World Trade Center.

6. Is it normal procedure for the Director of the White House Situation Room to travel with you? If so, please cite any prior examples of when this occurred. If not normal procedure, please explain the circumstances that led to the Director of the White House Situation Room being asked to accompany you to Florida during the week of September 11th.

7. What plan of action caused you to remain seated after Andrew Card informed you that a second airliner had hit the second tower of the World Trade Center and America was clearly under attack? Approximately how long did you remain in the classroom after Card�s message?

8. At what time were you made aware that other planes were hijacked in addition to Flight 11 and Flight 175? Who notified you? What was your course of action as Commander-in-Chief of the United States?

____________________________________

This should answer the questions regarding the actions of the president during and immediately after the attack on 9/11.

Evasive and security measures and activities following a strike on our countries' soil would seem random and unplanned by the very nature of the circumstances.

In other words, they would not follow an established flight plan.

_______________________________

9. Beginning with the transition period between the Clinton administration and your own, and ending on 9/11/01, specifically what information (either verbal or written) about terrorists, possible attacks and targets, did you receive from any source?

This would include briefings or communications from

� Out-going Clinton officials

� CIA, FBI, NSA, DoD and other intelligence agencies

� Foreign intelligence, governments, dignitaries or envoys

� National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice

� Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism czar

10. Specifically, what did you learn from the August 6, 2001, PDB about the terrorist threat that was facing our nation? Did you request any follow-up action to take place? Did you request any further report be developed and/or prepared?

11. As Commander-in-Chief, from May 1, 2001 until September 11, 2001, did you receive any information from any intelligence agency official or agent that UBL was planning to attack this nation on its own soil using airplanes as weapons, targeting New York City landmarks during the week of September 11, 2001 or on the actual day of September 11, 2001?

12. What defensive measures did you take in response to pre-9/11 warnings from eleven nations about a terrorist attack, many of which cited an attack in the continental United States? Did you prepare any directives in response to these actions? If so, with what results?

13. As Commander-in-Chief from May 1, 2001 until September 11, 2001, did you or any agent of the United States government carry out any negotiations or talks with UBL, an agent of UBL, or al-Qaeda? During that same period, did you or any agent of the United States government carry out any negotiations or talks with any foreign government, its agents, or officials regarding UBL? If so, what resulted?

14. Your schedule for September 11, 2001 was in the public domain since September 7, 2001. The Emma E. Booker School is only five miles from the Bradenton Airport, so you, and therefore the children in the classroom, might have been a target for the terrorists on 9/11. What was the intention of the Secret Service in allowing you to remain in the Emma E. Booker Elementary School, even though they were aware America was under attack?


______________________________

It would seem that if everyone knew where the president was going to be at that exact moment, then he would have made an easy target. 9/11 took years to plan, not 4 days.

Your premise is made absurd by it's own contradiction.
_______________________________
15. Please explain why you remained at the Sarasota, Florida, Elementary School for a press conference after you had finished listening to the children read, when as a terrorist target, your presence potentially jeopardized the lives of the children?

16. What was the purpose of the several stops of Air Force One on September 11th? Was Air Force One at any time during the day of September 11th a target of the terrorists? Was Air Force One�s code ever breached on September 11th?

17. Was there a reason for Air Force One lifting off without a military escort, even after ample time had elapsed to allow military jets to arrive?

18. What prompted your refusal to release the information regarding foreign sponsorship of the terrorists, as illustrated in the inaccessible 28 redacted pages in the Joint Intelligence Committee Inquiry Report? What actions have you personally taken since 9/11 to thwart foreign sponsorship of terrorism?

19. Who approved the flight of the bin Laden family out of the United States when all commercial flights were grounded, when there was time for only minimal questioning by the FBI, and especially, when two of those same individuals had links to WAMY, a charity suspected of funding terrorism? Why were bin Laden family members granted that special privilege�a privilege not available to American families whose loved ones were killed on 9/11?

20. Please explain why no one in any level of our government has yet been held accountable for the countless failures leading up to and on 9/11?

___________________________________

Clinton has already been removed from office. I suppose he could be tried for gross misconduct in not grabbing bin Laden when offered, gutting intel and military, etc., but the fact is we are just sick and tired of his dissembling.
______________________________________


21. Please comment on the fact that UBL�s profile on the FBI�s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives poster does not include the 9/11 attacks. To your knowledge, when was the last time any agent of our government had contact with UBL? If prior to 9/11, specifically what was the date of that contact and what was the context of said meeting.
_________________________________

If we spent the money to update the posters, Bush would be accused of wasting money on the obvious. Also, I think everyone is aware of bin Laden's role in 9/11 by now.

___________________________________
22. Do you continue to maintain that Saddam Hussein was linked to al Qaeda? What proof do you have of any connection between al-Qaeda and the Hussein regime?

_____________________________

Easy. Two examples:

1. There was an al-Qaeda training camp in NE Iraq that specialized in handling ricin.

2. Shortly before we went into Iraq, a major al-Qaeda operative had surgery to have his leg amputated. His leg had been injured by American bombings in Afghanistan. The surgery was performed in a Baghdad hospital.

_________________________________

23. Which individuals, governments, agencies, institutions, or groups may have benefited from the attacks of 9/11? Please state specifically how you think they have benefited.
_______________________________

What kind of question is this?

_______________________________

Support your "team" Jr. Republicans, just don't be GOP first, American second.

_______________________________

Always an American, not ashamed to say so. Can't be classified as to party membership, tho.

john

I don't see why everyone is slamming clinton for not capturing bin laden in the 90s. It's Ronald Regan who trained him and called him a "freedom fighter".

That is totally true. It wasnt Clintons fault and of course Ronal Regan trained him. Freedom Fighter LOL. Well of course he never knew that he was gona perform a terrorist attack on his Homeland so it isnt all his fault.

Originally posted by The_Fiend
That is totally true. It wasnt Clintons fault and of course Ronal Regan trained him. Freedom Fighter LOL. Well of course he never knew that he was gona perform a terrorist attack on his Homeland so it isnt all his fault.

That's true, but if the CIA trained him, don't you think they could of kept a better watch on him over the years?

Originally posted by Slayer
I don't see why everyone is slamming clinton for not capturing bin laden in the 90s. It's Ronald Regan who trained him and called him a "freedom fighter".

________________________________

Well, because bin Laden was working with us against the Russians in Afghanistan at one time.

Then he turned against us. His head was offered to Clinton on a silver platter. Clinton declined.

BTW, it is not without precedent for governments to form temporary relationships with terrorists. Or even with the Mafia.

john

Bout Time, that's the longest post of BS I have ever seen. All you conspiracy people are a riot. I was going to start responding 'till i saw about 10 questions based on what Bush was doing at/during the visit to the School in Florida, lol.

When the first plane hit the tower everyone thought it was some kind of accident. It wasn't till we started hearing from the FAA that planes were turning off there location transmitters, that we knew something was up, then the plane hit the second tower and everyone knew it was planned. I worked for an airline at the time, (UBL got me layed off) the news was saying one of our planes was hijacked (USAirways) but, we knew it wasn't true because we had communication with all our planes and they were ok. No one had a firm idea of what was going on. None of the planes were anywhere near the Southern US, so they likely were not going to crash into the elementary school ;p. As far as the President making the school a target that's inane, we were ALL a target. They killed innocent people in three states for Gods sake.

It's so easy for Monday morning quarterbacks to sit back and go over every second AFTER a event happens and say, "why didn't you do this or that," sometimes it is useful, in that you can create better response plans. I knowbecause I have done this. In this case, it was so singular and so unexpected, that it was perfectly normal for people to act the way they did. Why aren't you asking the NYFD and PD why they let their people go into the Towers? They should have known they were going to collapse. How about why they didn't shoot down the incoming plane over DC or why the commander of the Air Force didn't have planes armed with at least some kind of weapons, so that he didn't have to order pilots to ram any additional hijacked planes? It was all complete surprise that's why.

You're such a blind ideologue; none of this will penetrate your closed mind. To even insinuate that the attack was known by the President shows a total lack of logical thought. The world is such a complicated, convoluted mass of chaos No one can grasp the ramifications of such a momentous act. There would be no way to control the variables. The economy went into a tail spin, hundreds of thousands of people lost there jobs, markets went straight down. We were led down the path to War with then and even now, unknown consequences. How can you factor the actions of a religious zealot with a great deal of money and minions willing to die for your cause? You cannot. To think you can is pure fantasy. Hell, we don't even have cheap gas because OPEC decided to tighten quotas and all the kooks said, the war was for oil. How could the President know how this would all turn out two days, six months, or three years after the event? It is not possible.
But, in your case and others like you, the outcome never really matters; you'll simply revise your assumptions to fit your preconceived ideas.

Variable

John Kerry will not win. He has worse speech than Bush. his face is terrible. I am not joking looks do decide presidency. Remember JFK and nixon?

Originally posted by Zuzubar
John Kerry will not win. He has worse speech than Bush. his face is terrible. I am not joking looks do decide presidency. Remember JFK and nixon?

But in the end the ugly one outlived the pretty boy.

*BAM*

Now there is a real conspiracy I would take time to debate, not BTs useless politically motivated accusations stemming from resentment from being zapped.

regards
seekerof

The Jr. Republicans, a.k.a. the Brownshirt squad, is massing up .....can Weimar stand?

A Rebut to your misinformed retort, per line:

Sept.10, 2001....who was president?
Who haltered the surveillance drone tracking bin Laden upon taking office?
Who immediately recalled all search activates against anything Saudi upon taking office?
Kerry voting to eliminate waste in our military & intel community is not a "gutting" of their capabilities. To the contrary, it allocates funds where they need to go. You Brownshirts do know that we have, within this administrations budget, $10.2 Billion allocated towards a missile defense system that has been proven not to work, right?
Evasive Measures!?!
- All planes were grounded by that time
- All planes in the air were military, ours
- Reading the "Hungry Caterpillar" after you've been informed of the whole hijackings and second ramming of the Towers is the logical action of the Commander in Chief?
If your previous answer was "not allow established travel plans", why is it now "absurd" to question the inordinate & suspect amount of time spent remaining in that grade school after the SS & staff had already been informed of the terror events? Contradiction Maximus!

Right, Clinton wasn't in office ....you're getting closer....who was? Who had nearly a year of review/alteration/recommendation to every aspect of security/coverage/responsibility within the Federal government by 9/11/01?

There were training camps in the Northern US and our hospitals have treated Fundamentalist Terror advocates.....is the US in league with Al-Qeda as well?

Which individuals, governments, agencies, institutions, or groups may have benefited from the attacks of 9/11? Please state specifically how you think they have benefited.
_______________________________

What kind of question is this?
Open your eyes Junior!
- Kellogg Brown & Root
- Bechtel
- WorldCom
- Halliburton
- British Petrleum
- Dept. of Justice
- Dept. of Defense
- Every company in the Defense Industry - particularly those held in the portfolios of the Carlyle Group
- G.H.W. Bush, S. bin Laden & the whole bin Laden family, the entire House of Saud

Can't be classified as to party membership, though

Originally posted by Bout Time
The Jr. Republicans, a.k.a. the Brownshirt squad, is massing up .....can Weimar stand?
____________________________________

Now, now, son, no need to call names. You're gonna get yourself all worked up and have to sit in the time-out corner.

_____________________________________


Which individuals, governments, agencies, institutions, or groups may have benefited from the attacks of 9/11? Please state specifically how you think they have benefited.
_______________________________

What kind of question is this?
Open your eyes Junior!
- Kellogg Brown & Root
- Bechtel
- WorldCom
- Halliburton
- British Petrleum
- Dept. of Justice
- Dept. of Defense
- Every company in the Defense Industry - particularly those held in the portfolios of the Carlyle Group
- G.H.W. Bush, S. bin Laden & the whole bin Laden family, the entire House of Saud

_____________________________________

You forgot Alcoa (for the aluminum foil hats) and ToysR Us (for the X-RAY glasses and the invisbility cape).

______________________________________

Can't be classified as to party membership, though

__________________________
BTW, Cassius Clay was a punk -*ss sissy, too afraid to serve in the military. I saw him at O'Hare a few years back, made him walk around me.

john

Kerry voting to eliminate waste in our military & intel community is not a "gutting" of their capabilities. To the contrary, it allocates funds where they need to go.


I disagree, I do not look forward to serving in a military set up along the lines that Kerry is looking for. He's proposals for spending are focused on the wrong areas. His track record with past defense budgets leaves a lot to be desired.

which areas of focus are you talking about?