John McCain flat out LIES about his support of the GI Bill

I'm sure some of you followed the passage of Senator Jim Webb (D - VA)'s recent 21st Century GI Bill which extends the same benefits post-World War II veterans had to those who have served after 9/11. This is a wonderful bill and it passed with broad bi-partisan support. The original GI Bill under FDR returned $7 into the US economy for every $1 invested in it, it's conceivable that this new one could do the same.

However, early on two prominent Republicans opposed the bill. Those were Senator John McCain (R - AZ) and President George W. Bush. McCain offered a new bill up that would greatly reduce benefits to our hardworking veterans and require twelve years of service, and it was quickly shot down.

Not only did the Bill have wide support from the Congress, Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans pressured John McCain to support it and sign on as a co-sponsor:

A leading political action committee founded by veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has launched a new internet video and petition demanding that Sen. John McCain throw his support behind a new GI Bill.

GI Bill Veteran's PAC

John McCain and George Bush's opposition was well documented.

Clip discussing McCain's opposition

Another video hilighting the opposition to the GI Bill, narrated by veterans

Senators Barack Obama (D - IL) and Hillary Clinton (D - NY) both signed on as co-sponsors and voted "Yea" on the Bill. It passed 75-22. President Bush had threatened to veto the Bill, but with a veto-proof 2/3ths he did not.

President Bush then has the audacity to lie about his support of the Bill, and CREDIT JOHN MCCAIN for the Bill's passing.

Watch and listen

Senator John McCain did not vote on the Bill. One of the best pieces of legislation passed of which no patriot can deny the benefits of, and one of the best examples of how Republicans and Democrats can work together to make this country better. Senator John McCain did not vote, initially opposed the Bill, yet was credited by the President for helping it pass.

President Bush does not credit the 53 co-sponsors of the Bill, he credits a man who opposed it and did not vote on it.

Fast forward a little bit. John McCain does something disgusting - he claims that HE supported the GI Bill and that HE helped get it passed, and that HE helped Jim Webb personally. He also claims that every veteran's organization supports John McCain - False.

For example, The Vietnam Veterans of America gave McCain "voted for us" 9 times compared to "voted against us" 15 times.

Watch it yourself

And yet, this complete lie seems to have been completely damage controlled. I have heard no one report on it except those videos I have linked.

If you want to question someone's integrity and service to this country - Question John McCain's lies about the GI Bill and question why he did not support this piece of legislation from the start. John McCain is a veteran, and every person honors his service. So why does he not honor the service of those in the military now?

You do realize you're talking about a guy who endured years of torture, right? He is a veteran and knows what veterans need. McCain was against the original bill, because it had provisions that he believed would reward soldiers for getting out of the Army.

The fact is, we already had a GI Bill, so its not like there were soldiers not getting benefits and college. I know, I'm using the GI bill now. They ended up fixing that part of the Bill and it passed. whats the problem?

You Obama followers trying too make McCain out to be anti-soldier is about as futile as it gets.....

[edit on 10-7-2008 by Dronetek]

We discussed this in detail a few weeks ago. You can find the original thread here McCain Takes Credit for GI Bill

Originally posted by Dronetek
He is a veteran and knows what veterans need.

Not according to the veterans.

Watch This Video, where a Vietnam Vet confronts McCain and, as expected, McCain gets angry and snippy and argues with the man. AND he insults Jim Webb!

At 3:20 on that video, the veterans' grade the 2 candidates.


Disabled American Veterans gave McCain a 20%
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans gave him a D

Disabled American Veterans gave Obama an 80%
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans gave him a B+


reply to post by BlueTriangle


No, this is brand new. Just happened yesterday. Watch the video.

McCain has consistently voted against veterans' benefits, yet he claims he has voted for them because that's what people would expect him to do and that's what people believe.

Look further that your expectations and maybe you'll find the truth.

reply to post by Dronetek


You're posturing. You have yet to confront the fact that McCain took credit for a bill that he didn't even vote on, much less wanted to pass to begin with.

You do a fine tap dance.

You're the ones trying to convince people that a war hero doesn't care about veterans. Talk about tap dancing.

McCain had a BETTER GI Bill that gave more benefits tied to time in service. He supported this bill over the one that ended up passing.

Just because he supported something better doesn't mean he was 100% against the bill that passed.

Once it was obvious which bill was going to pass, McCain supported it.

So what is the big deal?

The man is a veteran, and a tortured POW. No one is arguing that he did not suffer.

However, McCain has taken credit for a bill he did not support, and really didn't want passed to begin with. That is outright fraud.

You won't confront this little fact, because it is indefensible. That fact that you're dodging the issue speaks volumes.

Originally posted by RRconservative
Once it was obvious which bill was going to pass, McCain supported it.

The point is he didn't support it. He didn't even vote on it.

He offered up an alternative bill that didn't pass the muster.

reply to post by RRconservative


Yeah, but that would imply that there's a difference of opinion as to how to reach the same goal. Much of the political left simply does not care about anyone's opinion that does not align with their own.

McCain is stretching it by taking credit for the bill, but I think that some of his detractors are at least as bad. He did support a competing bill, and while it may or may not have been as good as what passed, it was better than the existing system. Again, it was a difference of opinion, but both groups shared the same goal. But some can't let that little fact get in the way of their partisanship. Whatever, though. I wouldn't expect anything else.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by vor78]

Originally posted by RRconservative
McCain had a BETTER GI Bill that gave more benefits tied to time in service. He supported this bill over the one that ended up passing.

Not according to the veterans. They Urged McCain to Support the new GI Bill. That's from Military.com.

So what is the big deal?

The big deal is that it's NOT Obama supporters that are making these calls, it's the VETS themselves and you guys are COMPLETELY ignoring their stance on this and making it about something that Obama supporters are pushing.

The same year, McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans just 20 percent of the time. The main reason for the low scores is a consistent pattern by Senator McCain of voting against appropriating money for veterans' health care and disability payments.

According to Disabled American Veterans, McCain voted almost a dozen separate times against spending additional money on veterans' health care in 2005 and 2006, even as hundreds of thousands of soldiers and Marines were returning from Iraq and Afghanistan and filing disability claims with the Department of Veterans Affairs.

During that time, McCain voted against expanding mental health care and readjustment counseling for returning service members, efforts to expand inpatient and outpatient treatment for injured veterans, and proposals to lower co-payments and enrollment fees veterans must pay to obtain prescription drugs.

For all the "Support the Troops" soundbites McCain spouts, HE DOES NOT. He supports the WAR, not the TROOPS! Once he's done with them, he doesn't give a crap about them.

You say, "He had a better bill! He had a better bill"! A bill that short changed service people who didn't devote their whole lives to the military!

Well, what about everything else he voted against? I'm not just talking about ONE BILL. It's about a consistent pattern of voting against appropriating money for veterans, while touting his support for the troops! He's a lying sack of dung.

I'm surprised at you guys who wear your support for the troops on your chest like a medal defending this scumbag!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

The video -- a joint project of Brave New Films, VoteVets.org and WesPAC, a group formed by former Supreme Allied Commander in Europe General Wesley Clark

If I were McCain, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, given your link. Wesley Clark is also an Obama surrogate and one of his senior foreign policy advisors, not to mention a former Dem presidential candidate. So is that particular group devoted to veterans, or to getting Democrats elected to office? You tell me:

Elect Democrats to the White House, Congress, state offices, and local offices in order to implement new policies that will restore our nation’s security and prosperity, comprehensively address the threats facing America and our allies while respecting civil liberties, and replace the current unwise policies established by this Republican Administration and Congress.

securingamerica.com...

Again, I don't know about VoteVets.org, but considering their alignment with WesPAC, which has an obvious and stated agenda to elect Democrats, I am at least somewhat suspicious of VoteVets.org as well. Meanwhile, Brave New Films seems like a liberal partisan group to the core, just visiting their website.

I'm not saying that they don't have a legitimate point, they may, but I'd also treat anything coming from leftist groups that have apparent or even stated anti-Republican agendas with caution and skepticism, to say the least.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by vor78]

Originally posted by vor78
If I were McCain, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, given your link.

Yeah, he's clearly not too concerned about it.

I'm not sure what link you're talking about. I didn't link to VoteVets.org or know who they are... and I have no idea of their interests. I linked to Military.com

I'd also treat anything coming from leftist groups that have apparent or even stated anti-Republican agendas with caution and skepticism, to say the least.

How about Military.com, which is the site I DID link to? They're not a "leftist" group.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Did you even bother reading the article that you linked to? No, Military.com is not a liberal website, but it is reporting on a video released by VoteVets.org, WesPAC and Brave New Films. Two of the three have very obvious agendas. Most of the article is based upon the argument made by these three groups. In fact, the article does not even appear to originate on Military.com, but at Inter Press Services.


[edit on 10-7-2008 by vor78]

From what I understood from one of his interviews, he thought the new bill would adversely effect retention rates in the military, which is a bad thing during a war.

He was all for them receiving educational benefits, but he thought it was best to link them to actual years of service. I see nothing wrong with that. McCain also supported the transfer of benefits to family members after a prescribed amount of time.

Too many people nowadays join the military just to get a free college education and medical benefits at the taxpayer's expense. I have real issues with that. It speaks rather poorly of their character in my opinion. Military service is not a Summer job, and shouldn't be treated like one. It's a committment to your fellow Americans and your country. John McCain understands that.

I remember several reservists back during the Gulf War who refused to serve, and fought to pay back the loans instead. They pretty much said they joined for the benefits, and to be able to list military service on their resumes. These people should have been dishonorably discharged and imprisoned for the remainder of their tour of duty IMHO.



[edit on 7/10/08 by LLoyd45]

There isn't even a link to the video, though, or the contents thereof. That's just a small portion on the story. I don't have any interest in the video. This is just sidetracking the issue, which is John McCain's voting record on veterans' benefits.

I linked to Military.com to show McCain's voting record. The video is just mentioned in passing. Most of the article is about McCain's record.

Originally posted by Dronetek
You're the ones trying to convince people that a war hero doesn't care about veterans. Talk about tap dancing.

No we are talking about a man running for president who is taking CREDIT for a bill he opposed and did not vote on. McCain can stuff his "war hero" where the sun does not shine it has nothing to do with this, this is about him LYING.

A perfect example of how low McCain actually is and how untrustworthy, just ask his Ex-wife.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


At least the first half of the article is based upon statements by people affiliated with one of those three groups. And therein lies the potential problem. Is the picture painted an accurate one? Maybe, maybe not.

The ratings he received from certain organizations are interesting, but not necessarily indicative of anything problematic. He may have had his reasons for opposing their viewpoint. An example? McCain received at least one 'F' from the NRA a few years back for supporting a closure of the meaningless 'gunshow loophole'. I'm very pro-2A, but I don't care if they close it at all. Its a joke. But it was important to the NRA and, in their eyes, outweighed the mountain of good he's done on the issue in the past. The point, of course, is that ratings are subjective.



[edit on 10-7-2008 by vor78]

I believe in one of Obama's ads he also took credit for a bill to assist veterans he did not vote on..

Public Law 110-181 was the 2008 defense authorization bill. It passed the Senate by 91 to 3 in January, with six Senators not voting. Among those six absentees was Barack Obama. So he cites a bill he didn’t even vote for. Did he contribute to it in some way that might be reasonably referred to as extending healthcare for wounded troops who’d been neglected? It certainly doesn’t seem that way, as even Obama supporters at the Daily Kos discovered when they tried to answer some of the bloggers who pointed to Obama’s citation of the bill.

They found that Obama had tried to insert an amendment that had to do with screenings for service members returning from deployments, and one that would ease the discharge of service members found to have personality disorders, but neither amendment passed. Another part of the bill, calling for inspector general reports about hospital facilities, had come from a different bill Obama had sponsored.

Source

This thread isn't about Obama, is it?

I suspect he supported the bill but just didn't come for the vote because he knew it would pass (overwhelmingly) and had other commitments. I will check it out, though.