Rare Footage -- Flight 93 Shootdown Award

Hello, Boone 870. I think you understand I'm still contemplating all possible scenarios for Flight 93, and am still undecided what exactly went on with that flight.

"" When you say ''preset'', ''programmed'', and ''remotely handled'', I'm guessing that you mean a combination of all three, correct? ""

Yes, any combination of those three.
If you adhere to a deception, the chances that all planes were remotely controlled and taken over during normal or "hijacked" flight are quite high.

"" Also, you said, ''too far delayed''. Flight 93 was delayed for 25 minutes compared to flight 175 that was delayed for 14 minutes. That's only 11 minutes difference.
Why didn't the perpetrators (knowing that flight 93 was delayed at departure) just turn the aircraft around earlier to head back to Washington? ""

This is interesting, since the same thought came up to me, but the implications were too broad to include it in my above post. The thing is, in both cases, a deception or the official explanation, that flight followed a very different, long path, compared to the other three flights.
So, when there were real prepared hijackers aboard, in my opinion they acted illogical, only in that plane.
The others swiftly were taken over, and returned to New York and Washington.
This one seemed to be straight bound for the Sears Tower in Chicago, but suddenly changed course after a long delay compared to the other hijacked planes. Those seemed much more determined to quickly take over and change course to their targets.

I'll give you my basis for my thoughts.
Just after Pilots for Truth started their website, the most compelling piece they published was the one about the broad radar holes in the radar-coverage in a few states involved in the flights of the planes at 9/11.
They argued that a very tight flight schedule and take-over times had to be kept by the hijackers, who seemed to be knowledgeable about these white spots in radar coverage by FAA radar, and perhaps also military main radar. They came up with some strong points, indicating that there were 9/11 planes "meeting" each other in those radar white spots, and perhaps were swapped in those white spots for remote-controlled doubles.

If one follows this reasoning, then the already swapped fake flight 93 was far too late to turn around, and thus dangerously attracting attention of, by now on full alert, FAA and military Air Traffic Controllers who guided fighter jets.
Something must have gone wrong with 93 after the swap, which delayed the turn-around, or the whole swap went wrong, perhaps a remote control electronics problem?

Flight 93 was the supposedly only hijacked plane left in the sky, after the Pentagon was hit by Flight 77 at about 09:38.
Flight 93 went officially down at 10:06, others say 10:08. It was at that point, still many minutes away from targets in Washington, or New York.
And for military insiders controlling 93, it must have been clear that they couldn't control the situation anymore, since now, armed fighter jets were airborne and ready to intercept in the Capital or New York.
They had to abandon the plan, and get rid of the fake 93.
Perhaps it was rigged with explosives, if not, it had to be taken down with genuine fighter jets.

There was much later a report of another plane, with 4 other possible Middle-Eastern looking hijackers, who hastily left that plane after landing. So, eventually a fifth plane and target was planned?

I'm still trying to find a logical theory, fitting all facts we know of.

But I still realize that if all of 9/11 was a deception, just as the whole WMD-deception to lead us into a war in Iraq, which deception is pretty much rock-solid evidenced by now, and more or less acknowledged by the White House, then we still have the problem to determine which "facts" were planted evidence, and which were real evidence.

reply to post by LaBTop
LaBTop, please note that I started this reply before I noticed your reply above it. Just to help avoid confusion.

1.
Why didn't the perpetrators reverse the course of flight 93 after they realized the delay in departure? (Ignore this question if you answered it in my previous post)

2.
The overwhelming majority of witnesses interviewed after the crash did not dispute the fact that it was a commercial airliner.

3 a-b
I'll kill two birds with one stone regarding the UAV and an A-10:

The Wardhog is also capable of flying fairly slow, much slower than a fighter jet. But it can also keep at pace with a fast airliner, if needed.

Not even close.
A-10 cruise speed (300 knots) 757 cruise speed (458 knots)

Then we have the official explanation for a second jet, the LearJet said to be instructed by Flight Controllers to take a look at the impact site.
Strangely enough, no one saw that one, while all available eyes were skimming the skies after the impact and subsequent smoke column billowing into the sky.

There are several eyewitnesses that reported seeing the Falcon 20 on this page.


[edit on 11-7-2008 by Boone 870]

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

That's why the government slapped a federal gag order on them.

100% FALSE statement. I would ask you to back it up but I know for a FACT you can't. There was NOT a gag order on the FDNY.

You obviously are inventing this spew up as you go.

You know this for a FACT, huh? How about if we each put our personal credibility on the line over this so-called FACT of yours?

Don't be offended if I remind you of this from time to time...

‘BOMBS INSIDE WTC’

FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH

By Victor Thorn

NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too,” said Isaac.

The ramifications of this statement are immense: One of New York’s own firefighters says publicly that 9-11 couldn’t have been the work of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, but instead was planned, coordinated and executed by elements within our own government.

He also added, after pointing to throngs of police officers standing around us, that, “We all have to be very careful about how we handle it.”

Isaac reiterated what a 9-11 survivor told this journalist during our protest at Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2005—that emergency radios were buzzing with information about bombs being detonated inside the World Trade Center towers.

Also, Isaac directly addressed a gag order that has been placed on firemen and police officers in New York.

“It’s amazing how many people are afraid to talk for fear of retaliation or losing their jobs,” said Isaac, regarding the FBI gag order placed on law enforcement and fire department officials, preventing them from openly talking about any inside knowledge of 9-11. There is more information related to Isaac circulating in on-line and print reports, so here again we are hearing first-hand evidence from individuals who were on the scene, such as live witness William Rodriguez, saying that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the airliner’s impact or the resulting jet fuel fires, but instead by a deliberately executed controlled demolition.

www.americanfreepress.net...

Originally posted by Boone 870
There are several eyewitnesses that reported seeing the Falcon 20 on this page.

How come people that beleive the official story seem to ignore these witnesse reports?

Also as i have shown in many photos Learjets can carry pods for recon or weapons.

reply to post by Boone 870

Not even close.
A-10 cruise speed (300 knots) 757 cruise speed (458 knots)

I think you'll find you've confused indicated airspeed with TAS or ground speed.

A 757 never cruises at 458 kts IAS - maybe 320 or 340 kts IAS (which would pretty much be against the barber pole), and then this wouldn't be at high altitude (e.g. FL350).

An A-10 can fly slowly with ease as it has a conventional wing, but then so can an F-16. You can fly an F-16 down to as slow as 120 kts if you're careful, but whether she'll get down there or not depends heavily on weight and drag. She will have a high-nose attitude though (up to 25° for the slowest level flight for a given weight; the heavier, the faster the speed for this flight configuration). It's ultimately dictated by the AoA (angle of attack).

Don't think that because these aircraft are highly maneuverable and can fly supersonic with relative ease that they're incapable of going slow with a loadout.

OK, this is a PC sim of the F-16, but its flight modeling is so close to the real thing, it's good enough for demonstration purposes.

In this image you can see the airspeed is down to 113 kts, with an AoA of 25° (the limit) and zero rate of climb.

i167.photobucket.com...

This is an exterior shot showing the position of the flight controls and leading edge slats. The speed brakes are extended to increase drag requiring a bit more power, thus a bit more lift due to thrust is introduced, allowing a slightly slower forward speed.

i167.photobucket.com...

For comparison, here's the real thing:

www.habu2.net...

[edit on 12-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

[edit on 12-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

To those that don't think a plane crashed in PA.

I'm guessing you believe this because the crash site doesn't look like something out of a movie. Well in 1991 a Boeing 737 crashed in Colorado Springs.

www.airdisaster.com...

Take a look at the second picture. Looks a lot like the crash scene in
PA. And just like in PA, there is a whole plane in that picture.

I dont normally bother posting on the 9/11 threads but I cannot believe the posts which seem to occupy so much time on this topic.

I have no problem with the concept that Flight 93 was in fact shot down and thought exactly that on 9/11/2001.

It has been my belief for many years before 9/11...in going back to the 1980s..when it seemed that every other day..a Cuban Boat Person was hijacking another airliner back to Cuba. I thought to myself back then that someone is realizing there may come the necessity to shoot down one of these airliners...passengers and all. I realized, even back then, that plans were formulated to do exactly that. It was just a matter of positioning the assets and having the proper initiation/codewords to make it a go. Someone on watch simply pulls out the proper disc..on screen..or proceedure/action folder as a back up...and gives the initiation/code word to "go."
I just dont believe that they were prepared on 9/11 for so many hijackings and also that they would be suicide hijackings.

But all of this is not the important thing in this post.
The important thing for your thinking and to help some of you get out of your American Idol/public education thinking...that you deserve so much of the truth about anything...You deserve this and you deserve that...is that you can bet that since 9/11 these plans have been quietly in effect and prepared for multiple shootdowns of Commercial Aircraft.
Remember this before you book reservations on a commercial airline.

I strongly suspect this to be true by the very abscence of comment on this possibility..by anyone in a leadership position. Do some of you think they are not acutely aware of this possibility??

This world was not a nice place..even before 9/11..what makes some of you think it is after 9/11....and that you deserve the truth and answers to what happened or did not happen???
What makes any of you think that your politicians ..no matter what their political affiliation are... going to tell you the truth about anything...especially about getting on a commercial airliner.

If you cannot understand or comprehend what I am telling some of you...I suggest you go back to playing video games, watching American Idol, NASCAR, ESPN, or whatever drivel is occupying so much of your time. You dont need to bother thinking outside the box.

I will give the Israelis credit for one thing..they have clearly told thier people that in the event of a hijacking/kidnapping ..consider yourselves expendable. They at least tell thier people that much. What world are some of you living in ?

This world is naturally conspiratorial...it is the natural sate of many humans/governments to be conspiratorial...in particular..against their own people.

As to the comment about a jet fighter ...being used to ferry priority passgengers. This is not a new occurence. I even know of an instance where some years ago a donar heart for transplant was rapidly ferried cross country in the back seat in an igloo cooler, by a national guard F4 Phantom. Priority passengers are not a problem. Just a matter of proper clearances.

Some food for the thinking of those capable.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I even know of an instance where some years ago a donar heart for transplant was rapidly ferried cross country in the back seat in an igloo cooler, by a national guard F4 Phantom. Priority passengers are not a problem. Just a matter of proper clearances.

But have you heard of a military pilot getting a award for carrying a civilian passenger ?

Miliatry pilots get awards for all kinds of things. This is not new. Most of them dont make public news.

I still stand by what I said...all the speculation makes no difference. If you get on a airliner today..be prepared to be sacrificed if it is hijacked. I have no doubt that the shootdown orders are in effect if a airliner does not respond properly and immediately. Even multiple airliner shootdowns.

That is the conspiracy of silence to which you need to be thinking about...not what seems to be so important to many of you.

Conspiracy is as natural to natural men as breathing.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by orangetom1999
I still stand by what I said...all the speculation makes no difference.

Kind of like the official story is mostly speculation since there are no official reports or physical evidence to support it.

reply to post by ULTIMA1



LOL LOL LOL,

Lets get something straight...ULTIMA1..I dont care what the official story is....nor the speculation story on the part of ATS/BTS or any other site on the web.

I think Flight 93 was shot down. Do you think for one minute that anyone in government would admit this to a American Public raised on Sitcoms, and emotional drama queen talk show formats?? Not happening ..not in a hundred years.

Do I believe in the conspiratorial nature of government and humans..most certainly. All the way back to Quintus Fabius Maximus and the wars against Hannibal and the Carthigenians. I think history is full of deception and misdirection. It is up to us to figure it out..dont depend on others doing it for you. Especially your government..dont depend on them to make it clear for you.

Nonetheless...remember what I said about getting on a airplane today. That is what is going to count...not all the speculation and conjecture going on here on this board...on this thread...or other boards and threads.

20/20 hindsight does you limited good unless you can project it forward for your benifit or the benifit of your family.

All the blame game here on this thread is not going to help you or anyone else against what is coming. You may as well be urinating into the wind.
Dont be ignorant about history ..most certainly... but use it to look and project forward..not backwards.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 13-7-2008 by orangetom1999]

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Lets get something straight...ULTIMA1..I dont care what the official story is....nor the speculation story on the part of ATS/BTS or any other site on the web.

Well either you believe the official story or you going to be called a CTer.

I myself am looking for the truth of what happened that day by using good resources, FOIA request and e-mails to companies.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

You know this for a FACT, huh? How about if we each put our personal credibility on the line over this so-called FACT of yours?

Don't be offended if I remind you of this from time to time...

‘BOMBS INSIDE WTC’

FIRE OFFICER SAYS FIREMEN, COPS KNOW TRUTH

By Victor Thorn

NEW YORK CITY, N.Y.—On the morning of Sept. 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac Jr. asserted, yet again, that 9-11 was an inside job. “I know 9-11 was an inside job. The police know it’s an inside job; and the firemen know it too,” said Isaac........

Interesting enough...2 years ago Mr. Isaac was speaking with Mark Roberts. (aka Gravy) Here is Mr. Isaac's e-mail:

Hello Mark,

If its the wingtv article its ********. They slandered me last year when I read them the riot act about their behavior.

The article" Fireman admits again 9-11 was an inside job" is slander.

The article written by randy lavello is also slander as he has me saying that woolsey former CIA Director Woolsey was passing a gag order down the rank and file of the FDNY.That statement was never made in that context, It was said in humor ,and as a matter of fact that so-called reporter was fired by Alex Jones for making **** up on alot of people. The only reason I didn't go through the legal channels is because lawyers cost to damn much.

So the true statement was the that I heard Explosions not bombs as I couldn't tell what the sounds were as I was blocks away and can not confirm what the noise was. As I was aproaching City Hall the North Tower began the collapse I heard what sounded like thunder just prior to the collapse then the Popping as the tower fell. I had my radio scanner and there were reports of explsions within the conplex over the PD and PAPD frequencies. As I made my way closer I could pick up on the FD Handie Talkie frequencies and it sounded like hell. No one new what the was going to happen next but when the second tower began its fall there were what sounded like loud popping coming from the tower as well as a sucking sound like reveres air pressure.

Its seems the people at 911Truth have some problems with credibility as I had approached them on this issue for clarification. No need to say they never returned my messages.

They are tools of the trade.

Take care
Paul

forums.randi.org...

Try again Golden. Your "credibility" is on the line.

Thank you,

:TY:

NWO Northeast Chapter






[edit on 13-7-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

That's quite the proof you got there, ThroatSemen.

Let's see, an anonymous message board posting from some guy who purports to be a friend of Isaac's who shares what's purportedly an email from him on a James Randi debunker site?!

OMG, you got me, ol' master of credibility! What a loon.

So your anonymous message board posting of a purported email claims that multiple writers misquoted this guy, huh? Sure they did:

Before beginning this article, I met Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman and former Auxiliary Police Officer, Paul Isaac Jr. at the World Trade Center Memorial. Paul, along with many other firemen, is very upset about the obvious cover-up and he is on a crusade for answers and justice. He was stationed at Engine 10, across the street from the World Trade Center in 1998 and 99; Engine 10 was entirely wiped out in the destruction of the towers. He explained to me that, “many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.” Paul further elaborated that former CIA director Robert Woolsey, as the Fire Department’s Anti-terrorism Consultant, is sending a gag order down the ranks. “There were definitely bombs in those buildings,” he told me. He explained to me that, if the building had ‘pancaked’ as it’s been called, the falling floors would have met great resistance from the steel support columns, which would have sent debris flying outward into the surrounding blocks. I asked him about the trusses, and quoted the History Channel’s ‘don’t trust a truss’ explanation for the collapses. He responded in disbelief, and told me, “You could never build a truss building that high. A slight wind would knock it over! Those buildings were supported by reinforced steel. Building don’t just implode like that; this was a demolition.”

Just after the disaster, Firefighter Louie Cacchioli said, “We think there were bombs set in the building.” Notice he said ‘we’. At 9:04, just after flight 175 collided with the South Tower, a huge explosion shot 550 feet into the air from the U.S. Customs House known as WTC 6. A huge crater scars the ground where this building once stood. Something blew up WTC 6 - it wasn’t a plane; it must have been a bomb of some sort.

.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by GoldenFleece]

reply to post by GoldenFleece


It was an e-mail from YOUR source. Did you read it?

You wish to dismiss it, that's fine. Mr. Issac is on record as saying there was not a gag order.

Do you have any other proof to back up you statement that is 100% wrong?

Mark Roberts aka "Gravy" is not an anonymous poster. Read the entire thread there.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
How could these firefighters not know the truth?

Got any answers to this, Yogurt of the Throat?

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Instead of reposting the same old truther youtube video's Golden... back up one thing at a time.

You have not offerend ANY evidence to support a "gag order." Do that and perhaps we can debate your little video.

I posted two different articles from two different authors who both said the same thing using different quotes.

You contributed an anonymous posting on a James Randi discussion forum that was purportedly an email disavowing what he said -- not even from him, but supposedly from his acquaintance or friend.

Gee, I wonder which is more credible?

OK, stop being a weasel, what lame rationale have you concocted for the irrefutable video AND audio evidence in the video?

reply to post by GoldenFleece


You posted a quote from the same Auxillary Fireman. The SAME fireman who stated there WASN'T a gag order.

His e-mail is not from an anonymous source. It came from a verified source. Mark Roberts had direct contact with Mr. Issac. You have a right to believe it or not. I have actually corresponded with Mr. Roberts on several occasions. I assure you he is real.

If you did not know, my brother was at GZ withing days post 911 as a grief counselor for the FDNY. I called him this morning and he laughed at what I told him. The only thing that they were NOT allowed in regards to any type of a gag order was NOT to take pictures.

There was not a gag order in place and you have yet to prove otherwise.

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

OK, Mr. NWO!!! from Langley, VA, we believe you and your debunker friend who's supposedly posting emails on behalf of FDNY firefighters.

As to your reactions towards the incontrovertible video, evasion noted. I think your goal is to try and derail threads rather than contribute anything meaningful.