So... when do the Natives get America back? Oh, that's different. Europeans were *destined* to start a new nation here. At some point, SOMEBODY (collective somebody) is going to have to concede that, in a sufficiently civilized society, the ills of the past will have to be left there. I don't claim to be a historical scholar on the lands in question, but I think it's safe to say whats going on today is not fair. And don't bring up that trash of gods chosen people, or that god gave somebody land. What utter nonsense.

Who said religion was good for nothing? They wouldn't have a thing to do in the world without all their righteous squabbling. Except maybe to get on with life in some semblance of peace.

funny how the jew haters are quiet when they are confronted with the histoy behind the matter.

how many knew prior to this that the jews took the land from the british empire and not the arabs?

Good OP. I fully agree.

Also, As a Native American I will say that to compare the two are apples and oranges. Natives were seperated into at least 200 languages on the northern continent alone, let alone seperate tribes/bands/groups. They were not a 'cohesive unit' and differing groups made different treaties wioth different people etc...

Israel was granted that land after ww2 specifically because they used to own it. The only thing similar that I can think of at the moment would be to give back Hawaii to the hawaiians (which I would support if they wanted to do such) because they used to own it and it was forcably taken away from them... maybe now would be a good time to give it back.

But thats off topic, I fully agree with your OP Mr Gribble.

I'm pretty sure most of what is now Israel used to belong to the Canaanites until the Israelites invaded and took it from them by force ..... so perhaps they might now hand it back?

Originally posted by DaleGribble

Originally posted by RootMean
So... when do the Natives get America back?

when you look at it this way no nation in the world diserves any of ther land. at some point is was all stolen from some one or another..

Which is EXACTLY why anyone with some sense can see that Israel stole the land.

It wasn't theirs because if you look at the world from the Israeli point of view, as you said, "no nation in the world diserves any of ther land."

You answered your own question.

Jon

Even when most of the "Jews" of today are Slavic converts dating from the 8th-10th century AD and not the same people as who lived in biblical Israel? Only around 25% of modern Jews can trace their ancestry back to those people. The rest are descended from Eastern European converts.

Even when you consider that the Hebrews of the bible where the same ethnic group as modern day Palestinians? Arabs are semitic too, you know. Some of the first Muslim converts where Jewish tribes.

And you said you know your history....

then perhaps you should focus on England and not Jews. after all the Jews reclaimed it from english rule not palistine...

[edit on 15pmu22007 by DaleGribble]

The OP misses the point that the land was not devoid of people. There were many, many Christians living there whose ancestors converted to christianity in the earliest christian missionary period, whose lingua franca was Arabic, and who with the Israeli seizure of their lands, villages, and cities, found themselves stateless and treated as if they did not exist.

Christian Zionists always forget about this, and they never look into the Jewish crimes against Arabic-speaking christians at the time of David ben Gurion (David Green)'s declaration of an independent Jewish state or in subsequent years up to the present day.

[edit on 10/7/08 by Pellevoisin]

Originally posted by DaleGribble
no i said when you look at it from RootMean's point of view. no country desirves their land.

this is not my point of view. my point of view is the land rightfully belongs to the Jew's..

You are talking in circles because your own views are in conflict with themselves.

This is an example of the kind of mental gymnastics people must use in order to convince themselves that immoral but politically correct actions are somehow within their own sphere of morality for fear of feeling politically incorrect.

Originally posted by DaleGribble
What makes you think Isreal stole land in 1948? When in fact they were reclaiming land they lost.

Here you claim that people have a right to take back their ancestor's lost land even if it was over 2k years ago.

Originally posted by RootMean
So... when do the Natives get America back?

When asked by RootMean what about other displaced groups you instantly noticed the inherent truth: What RootMean just said is not a valid way of viewing the world because:

Originally posted by DaleGribble
when you look at it this way no nation in the world diserves any of ther land. at some point is was all stolen from some one or another..

Which is as far as I am concerned correct and I agree with you. You can't run around claiming that your land was stolen X years ago and so you should have it today.

Even you know and understand that or you would be willing to happily donate your own land to some needy Indian tribe.

But Native American's obviously have no right to just take your land, right? So why do European and American Jews have any right to land that people (mostly, but not entirely not Jewish) lived on for the last 2k years?

Jon

I don`t buy it for a minute

the land was called Palestine......not Israel
and the jews were a religion... not a race

Israel and the Jews come from the Old testament...

I trust the old testament and the bible about as much as I trust
george bush ...

it is a fictional place......

am I to believe that GOD HIMSELF decreed that this land be called Israel and be given to the "CHOSEN ONES.........???

Bull........

Originally posted by Maya432
am I to believe that GOD HIMSELF decreed that this land be called Israel and be given to the "CHOSEN ONES.........???

According to Orthodox Jewish myth, they were dispersed from Israel as punishment and are not permitted to return unless decreed by God.

Last time I checked, the UN is not God....