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Forced Servitude In America?

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posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Forced Servitude In America?


www.latimes.com

For those who don't remember, the 13th Amendment says: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime ... shall exist within the United States."
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Hmm, FORCED mandatory community service by the gov?

Seems we are already in tax servitude to these people, to keep funding their special interest agendas.

Should we be forced into community service too?


In his speech on national service Wednesday at the University of Colorado, Obama promised that as president he would "set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year."



www.latimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Not surprising...it's only fleshing out his previous sentiments that post graduation college students should spend years at a time in the peace corps as repayment for that whopping $1000 a year scholarship the government would give them.

Why do people fall for this crap?



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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That is horrible. This is so dictatorish. Vote for McCain. If the American people are voting for Obama because of this, I want a revolution.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:03 PM
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I am a former student chairman of my university's community service efforts, and may I just say to Mr. Obama: NO THANKS!

Those of us who are interested in helping our communities because it is the right thing to do do not want to be forced to work with or try to organize tens of thousands of fellow students who are forced to help - these type of people only make things worse. Involuntary help on community service means those of us who want to help our communities are left babysitting those who would rather do anything but help out.


[edit on 9-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Those of us who are interested in helping our communities because it is the right thing to do do not want to be forced to work with or try to organize tens of thousands of fellow students who are forced to help - these type of people only make things worse. Involuntary help on community service means those of us who want to help our communities are left babysitting those who would rather do anything but help out.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]


Precisely. When someone is forced to give it is no longer a gift. And you're right about community service. If there is someone whose parents or school made them be there they are hardly ever of any help. In fact, they usually just get in the way, and they definitely don't care about the cause. Star!



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:12 PM
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I am doing volunteer work at our local hospital and that is what it is, a volunteer effort from my part to feel better about myself in helping others.

That is choice, no government has the right to force his people into doing something that they do not want to do and neither been force into.

I think this is just political propganda what Obama is doing nothing more and nothing else.

nothing to worry about.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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This is also my problem with government aid money given to foreign nations. It is our money and our time and the instant the decision on where it goes is no longer ours to make is the instant it ceases being charitable and becomes, in effect, forced. Obama, however, is a socialist, so why this would surprise anyone coming from him is beyond me. Socialism dictates mandatory "volunteer" service routinely... for proof of that just look at all the tens of thousands of forced "volunteers" working to clean up the red tide in China for the Olympics.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by deltaboy
 


This post is wrong. Neither of them idiots will stop anything we want them to stop. They are both sellouts..

They are both NWO scum and both need to be hung out and stoned. They do not stand for Americans, for Americans, or by Americans.

If that were the case people like me wouldn't be thinking our voting process sucks.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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I'll disagree with ya on this one, DD, for two reasons:

First, forced servitude is alive and well in the US; it's called Debt. You owe, you work to pay back, your creditors change the rules to try and keep you on the hook in perpetuity. Vast numbers of Americans live this truth every day. As long as inflation rates outstrip the rate at which wages increase, and easy access to credit is made available to people who cannot pay it off on a consistent basis (not that they're ever actually expected to) Debt will always be the "new" slavery. I doubt many here, especially those duped into thinking our economy is based on "free market" principles, would agree with me that Debt should be greatly reduced and the power of creditors to do with their debtors as they please should be curtailed. As long as forced servitude of any kind is allowed, Constitutional or not, the argument against forced community service holds little weight.

Second, working with a number of coddled twenty-somethings who BS'd their way through college yet have little to no practical working knowledge, and seeing those "young turks" get pay and benefits far beyond what others have earned through hard work and experience, I'd say maybe some of these kids need this to knock them down a peg or two. Maybe being forced to spend some time in the Real World doing Real World Work instead of sitting in front of the TV playing "Halo" would do them some good. I see no difference between this proposal and the requirement some schools have for their students to do internships.

And it's not just about my personal disdain for many in the self-obsessed generation just behind my own--it's also practical. As our economy degrades the need for people to decide their futures at a younger age is becoming critical. No longer can someone just "live their lives" for five or ten years before getting serious about career choices. Pushing high schoolers to perform community service in the real world gives them greater perspective on how the real world works, and helps them make more informed choices about their future education and careers. In an America where there are essentially no well-paying jobs left for someone just out of high school, and where a Bachelor's degree is often not even enough to guarantee landing a good job, buying a house, raising a family, etc., kids will need to make those decisions at ever-earlier ages if they want to have any kind of quality of life.

And, it may have an added effect of turning schools back into educational institutions rather than a day-care for teens with a dozen warring subcultures within. Kids who have work to do have less time to spend worrying about their social standings with other kids, watching mind-numbing TV, and beating other kids up. When kids are exposed to the world outside they will realize it's not all about high school, and there's a real reason they're there besides comparing outfits in the hallway.

So yes, I think some amount of community service is a good idea, at least for high schoolers. In college I'm not so sure--that would have to depend largely on the program a student is in, what internships are required, etc. I think some accomodations would have to be made based on these factors.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
This is also my problem with government aid money given to foreign nations. It is our money and our time and the instant the decision on where it goes is no longer ours to make is the instant it ceases being charitable and becomes, in effect, forced. Obama, however, is a socialist, so why this would surprise anyone coming from him is beyond me. Socialism dictates mandatory "volunteer" service routinely... for proof of that just look at all the tens of thousands of forced "volunteers" working to clean up the red tide in China for the Olympics.



First, Obama is no socialist. I'm a socialist, and he's way off that mark.

Second, it's not about "charity". It's about things that need to be done in our communities. Private enterprise won't do it for lack of profit. Government could do it but it would also be decried as "socialist" and people don't want to spend tax dollars on it. Nobody wins. How would you solve such problems?



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Man its sooo weird . Just the other day i was discussing "utopia" with my GF . And what the most effective way to abolish the government would be ..


The conclusion we came to was . If everyone did a certain amount of "community service " We would have no use at all for a government .

Imagine us all banding together . Helping each other. If your street needs repaving . Band the block together for a block party and get to work .

If we could ween ourselves of the "teet" of the government . And do the gdarn work ourselves . It would be impossible to tax us. No need for taxes..No need for government .
At least not in the sense/capacity we have it now.

Hell if there allowed to force military service . Why not a little service to our community ? Especial . If it can later be used as a defense to not serve in an offensive war .

I still have things to iron out in my idea . Sure. But its not like the way things are going is any better.
Whats wrong with young adults getting a chance to feel what being a good person is all about.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Obama, McCain it doesn't matter who you vote for. They are both in the CFR (Council On Foreign Relations). They both have the same agenda. Obama is a democrat supposedly the lesser of two evils. Buts its all a game. Elections are meaningless.

The only viable candidate who doesn't bow to corporate interests was Ron Paul. He got over a million votes in the primaries so at least people are waking up.

Until people realize they don't need governance and start governing themselves for a change, we will never truly be free...



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by sc2099
Not surprising...it's only fleshing out his previous sentiments that post graduation college students should spend years at a time in the peace corps as repayment for that whopping $1000 a year scholarship the government would give them.

Why do people fall for this crap?


I wonder how Obama paid back his scholarship money, Oh I forgot being a high paid goverment rep. is service enough.




posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by d11_m_na_c05
 


Must have read my mind cause we both posted the same thing.



Very nice.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by The Nighthawk
First, forced servitude is alive and well in the US; it's called Debt.


What does this have to do with the topic? Debt is voluntary servitude. Forcing people to do community service while attending high school (and they have no choice - they must attend high school) is forced servitude. Big difference. One is allowed under the constitution, the other is not.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
First, forced servitude is alive and well in the US; it's called Debt.


What does this have to do with the topic? Debt is voluntary servitude. Forcing people to do community service while attending high school (and they have no choice - they must attend high school) is forced servitude. Big difference. One is allowed under the constitution, the other is not.


It has A LOT to do with the topic. When a person enters a contract with an institution that relies on his 'promisory note' to repay, like a loan, credit card, or mortgage, they are supposed to 'in spirit and intent' be provided a full understanding of the consequences of all the terms and conditions of the contract.

Financial institutions, along with a lot of help from the BAR association have made such contracts completely unintelligible to the consumer. Most have NO CLUE of the long range impact such contracts have.

I know people who took out a $275K loan for a home and thought that they would be paying back that money plus the interest amount as advertised. They didn't realize that after all is said and done they'll be paying back WELL over that amount. I know people who get those 'in the mail' credit cards not realizing the rate will change after a few months, or the first time they actually use the card. There are those who maintain that it is the responsibility of the borrower to 'read the fine print' - but then - what is the purpose of making the print 'so fine' that it escapes attention, or is couched in legalese terms so as to be unrecognizable - the intent is to conceal it - there can be no other reason for the practice.

Why must a mortgage be so complicated and cumbersome that it takes two lawyers and a room full of people to complete? It's because its part of the 'construct' to create a contractual situation where the responsible debtor is NOT in control of the situation and cannot function without - you guessed it - a lawyer. In the end you are on the hook for, and cannot escape from the 'purchase' which took place with virtually no money changing hands - yet you will provide that money to the lender with interest, even though they never 'spent' a dime.

Servitude by disinformation, or deception, or deceit is servitude nonetheless.

The truth is, DEBT is Servitude. Trends are continuing which will virtually criminalize certain kinds of private insolvency - while institutional insolvency and corporate insolvency is protected.

My 'tax' debt as it is presented by the IRS certainly qualifies as an externally imposed tariff on my labor. That is servitude, like unto a feudal lordship, only I never pledged loyalty to the IRS, the Fed, or any other private company or organization.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
First, forced servitude is alive and well in the US; it's called Debt.


What does this have to do with the topic? Debt is voluntary servitude. Forcing people to do community service while attending high school (and they have no choice - they must attend high school) is forced servitude. Big difference. One is allowed under the constitution, the other is not.


It has A LOT to do with the topic. When a person enters a contract with an institution that relies on his 'promisory note' to repay, like a loan, credit card, or mortgage, they are supposed to 'in spirit and intent' be provided a full understanding of the consequences of all the terms and conditions of the contract.

Financial institutions, along with a lot of help from the BAR association have made such contracts completely unintelligible to the consumer. Most have NO CLUE of the long range impact such contracts have.

I know people who took out a $275K loan for a home and thought that they would be paying back that money plus the interest amount as advertised. They didn't realize that after all is said and done they'll be paying back WELL over that amount. I know people who get those 'in the mail' credit cards not realizing the rate will change after a few months, or the first time they actually use the card. There are those who maintain that it is the responsibility of the borrower to 'read the fine print' - but then - what is the purpose of making the print 'so fine' that it escapes attention, or is couched in legalese terms so as to be unrecognizable - the intent is to conceal it - there can be no other reason for the practice.


I keep getting checks for $8 from one of my card providers for "cash back", stating if I cash the check I automatically sign on to their "cash back" program. I had to look long and hard before I realized what a scam it was:

You're limited to $100/yr in "cash back" on your purchases.

Membership in the program requires a $99 yearly fee.

So, even if you make maximum use of your "cash back", you effectively get only $1 back once the fee is figured in.

Needless to say I shred those checks and never cash a one.

Debt isn't servitude? Puh-lease.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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Well,
Slavery being wanted by Obma, another good reason to NOT vote for him.

BTW, "I am told" that Catholic Schools have this form of forced labor as a requirement, also.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 



You just described how debt is not involuntary servitude. Every loan document I have ever agreed to or signed had TERMS AND CONDITIONS with it that I had the opportunity to read and understand. No one has ever forced me to take a loan. I have always read the TERMS AND CONDITIONS to make sure I knew what I was agreeing to. Consumer stupidity is not forced servitude. Don't agree to a loan until you understand the terms.



I know people who took out a $275K loan for a home and thought that they would be paying back that money plus the interest amount as advertised. They didn't realize that after all is said and done they'll be paying back WELL over that amount.


Umm - as advertised, they ARE only paying out the principle plus the interest, over the term of the loan. There is no false advertising here. Its elementary knowledge that a 5% APY simple interest loan over 30 (or any other mortgage term) years ends up costing more than the principle - because you have taken out a loan over such a long period of time. There is no false advertising here.

A mortgage closing does not really require an attorney, although its a good idea to have one. Its always intelligent to have a professional involved when you are dealing with large sums of money. In fact, since your paying for it, you could have them explain it to you.

As for credit cards - anyone who doesn't read the terms and conditions they signed for is just not smart. Credit card's just don't come in the mail - you must apply somehow - and when you do there is a very large chart required by law that goes into a ton of detail about all interest rates, terms, and fees.

If it were servitude by deception, you'd be right. Its not though. It is servitude by consumer stupidity, which is voluntary. The OP is involuntary servitude, because people must attend high school by law and now Obama is essentially forcing them to work without pay.



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