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Zondervan faces $60M federal lawsuit over Bible, homosexuality

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posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:04 AM
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Zondervan faces $60M federal lawsuit over Bible, homosexuality


www.woodtv.com

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) -- Christian publisher Zondervan is facing a $60 million federal lawsuit filed by a man who claims he and other homosexuals have suffered based on what the suit claims is a misinterpretation of the Bible.
But a company spokeswoman says Zondervan doesn't translate the Bible or own the copyright for any of the translations. Instead, she said in a statement, the company relies on the "scholarly judgment of credible translation committees."
That is to say, setting aside whether the federal civil rights lawsuit is credible, the company says Bradley Fowler sued the wrong group.
His suit centers on one passage in scripture -- 1 Corinthians 6:9 -- and how it reads in Bibles published by Zondervan.
Fowler says Zondervan Bibles published in 1982 and 1987 use the word homosexuals among a list of those who are "wicked" or "unrighteous" and won't inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Fowler says his family's pastor used that Zondervan Bible, and because of it his family considered him a sinner and he suffered.
Now he is asking for an apology and $60 million.
"To compensate for the past 20 years of emotional duress and mental instability," Fowler told 24 Hour News 8 in a phone interview.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:04 AM
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Zondervan publishing is a great company. They are located here in my home town and print bibles and other religious books. I don't see why this guy is suing them. If he belives in the bible, then it shouldn't matter if being gay is a sin, he should care that he can be washed clean of his sin because Jesus died for him, and he is forgiven.
If they loose the court battle, I don't know if they can afford to pay the gay person. If this causes them to go out of buisness this is a sign that things are way out of controll.

www.woodtv.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by ChilledVoodoo
 


Yeah, you're right, it doesn't matter how his family treated him due to a mistranslation of the Bible on the part of the company.
As long as God loves him and he is sorry for his sins.
The question is more how did his family treat him, how did they react? The word homosexual is not 'sposed to be in the bible. And, as the article shows it has many different versions of that particular section.
Not at all surprising, of course. However, unlike the other ones where the meaning is more infered, the statment there is pretty clear, Homosexuals are evil and against god.
Normally I don't back these kind of suits, and I still don't with this one, though I can understand where the fellow is coming from. having your family against who you are because of a misprint in a book would be a heavy burden to bear.
But i'm sure that's all fine and dandy if Jesus forgives you, right.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:19 AM
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why doesnt this whining ninny sue his family


Cretin



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:21 AM
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This has got to be a joke. It seems now days people file lawsuits just in the hopes of getting some big money. This guy needs to get a life.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 05:55 AM
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This has GOT to be the most asinine attempt to do SOMETHING I mean ANYTHING about that confounded bronze age book they just can't STAND knowing it says they are an abomination before the lord.

I see it done here on ATS all the time too by this same group and I just don't get it. The hardest to figure out are those gays that are Atheist also.

They don't believe in God or the Bible yet have started numerous threads claiming to prove the Bibe doesn't say anything about homosexual sex. Yet the Bible is explicit in numerous passages but the moment you tell them they go off ballistic telling you of your "bigotry" when you're like "hey I didn't even know you were gay till YOU had to announce it to everyone. Same as this person.

I have seen every clever ploy every argument yet. Maybe they will enlist the services of the ACLU and sue Jesus lol.

Most frivolous lawsuit I have heard

- Con



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Actually, in the older versions, its not homosexuality that is a sin, your actually supposed to love one another. What is a sin is Sodomy and Sex out of marriage.

There are many reasons why, from a historic view, that these 2 things would be classified as a sin. Sodomy because you are putting something somewhere it doesn't belong at all. The walls of the anus are actually extremely thin, because of that, if a person was to get too into the moment, and lack lube, that could theoretically rupture the anus, and cause massive bleeding, as well as infection. The result back in that day would be or could be a slow painful, death.

The reason why sex outside of marriage was considered a sin, was to protect the woman. If she was giving the milk away for free, chances are no one was going to buy the cow. Same principle applies today. Would you marry a woman with 6 kids, by 10 different fathers that gave you sex all the time, while cheating on you? Cause if you didn't save and protect your daughter, that what she would be classified as.

Thats just my opinion anyway. I think he is right to sue, I just think he got the wrong people. I can right a book on how you should always use your hand to wipe your ass, doesn't mean you have to read it, or follow it. The people he should be talking with, and sueing is his family.

Cheers

Camain



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:40 AM
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Well all i hear is people giving their power away and saying Jesus forgives you for being gay and for doing all that is a sin! Maybe what is in the Bible isnt correct.. maybe everything we think of religion has been twisted and manipuliated into a controlling of society and a mind control for all of the people who believe in this Book... but who an i to say this... who are you to believe in what you believe!!!

People are brought up to believe in faith from a small age... we all have our inner beliefs and that is fine... and deep down we all know the truth even though books are thrown at us.. we are told to behave a certain way..and then we are told Jesus loves us and he can wipe away all our sins!!!!

I think learn your own lesson and and grow up knowing what is right and wrong based on love and respect of others.. I dont believe that being gay is a sin, the compleate opposite to be honnest. as it is about LOVE and respect of love for one another.

Anyone who think that sinning in any form of murder, crime, and believe that their sins can be wipe away cus Jesus died for us all.. need to look at their actions and ask themselves if they actually believe they can ever forgive themselves for what they did.

Being Gay is no sin... being in love with a human being that loves you back, who is of the same sex, who is an adult and has the ability to look beyond gender.. beyond what the powers at be wanted to suppress in humans.. TO FEAR LOVE OF ALL... beacuse that power that ability unlocks the doors to unthinkable and unimaginable potential for the human race..

Anyone that has fear for homosexuals.. who has pity for homosexuals, who does not have love for them!!!! Take a look at yourselves very deepy and go within... dont try and find answers from the very texts that try to control and DO control some of you out there.

SO much contridiction, so much hate, so much pitty... so much Sinning...

This guy is making a point that he is a HUMAN he was treated badly all his life!!! cus he LOVES,, LOVES someone who is the same gender!! This is wrong that he has to grow up in a society where he is punished for LOVING SOMEONE WHO LOVES THEM BACK! where does this not compute in peoples heads?????? Brain washing comes to mind!!!!!
I think he is in his rights to sue! yeh everyone is out to make a buck these days right!!! hes gay but hes no different from any of the straight people out there.. the business people who no longer care for service they just want more money!!!

At least this guy wants money cus his life was effected by his own LOVE for another HUMAN!!! beacuse of what the bible has writen in it and how its been twisted and mis interprited in the church.

Blegghhhh...

enough of my rant,

good day.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by camain

Thats just my opinion anyway. I think he is right to sue, I just think he got the wrong people. I can right a book on how you should always use your hand to wipe your ass, doesn't mean you have to read it, or follow it. The people he should be talking with, and sueing is his family.

Cheers

Camain


Id also like him to sue himself for being such a tit



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by ChilledVoodoo
 


When people who live in SIN like lesbians and homosexuals, they don't realize they are enslaved by the dark side (Satan) and will attack the word of GOD because of the TRUTH, cuts. They feel discriminated against. And they should. Guilt is a trigger alerting and telling your SOUL what you are doing is wrong. If they would come back to the LIGHT, GOD will restore them as he designed them to be. People are not born homo-the devil put's the spirit of the act upon them because of their weakness. Just turn from the SIN and ask the LORD for forgiveness, find a bible teaching church and resume your life as planned. That simple....



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by ChilledVoodoo
 


First of all, let analyze the story here and the real reason for the law sue, and lets step aside from the homosexual God love you rhetoric here.

This is a very clear case of doctrine propaganda done by a so call group of people that call themselves Scholarly translation committees in which the Christian publisher Zondervan is actually relying when publishing his own version of the bible scripts.

The word homosexual is not part of the original bible scripts and old interpretations, this is a word that is been added by the Christian publisher Zondervan, so actually they are been bias and creating a bias Cristian bible for either a personal reason or to target either homosexuals or those that are anti homosexuals Christians

Plain and simple.

If this goes to court is a valid law sue, because is adding more intolerance with the use of the bible to spread what it can be considered hate crimes.

Is not such thing as a recognized credible translators committees with power given by god or any law to add new words on any bible or to change bible scriptures at will, this all the choice of the persons involved in doing this.

So are they guilty, well yes actually they can be taken to court for what they are doing.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:24 AM
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this is bogus assessment, thoughts should never be automatically crimes, no matter how repugnant allegedly enlightened people find them- they should only be crimes when they specifically agitate for violence

For instance, thinking homosexuality is a sin, is not a crime

Thinking homosexuality is a sin and calling people to behead homosexuals is a crime

Tis a slippery slope down the thought crime route

[edit on 9-7-2008 by blueorder]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by blueorder
 


Back to the basis, the word homosexual is not part of the original scripts and to use it in a manner that is offensive and possible to cause hate crimes is a valid issue for a law sue.

Taking into consideration that this is done to the bible.

It merit a law sue to the company involved in what can be call a hate crime.

Hate Crimes Laws

www.adl.org...



[edit on 9-7-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by camain
Actually, in the older versions, its not homosexuality that is a sin, your actually supposed to love one another. What is a sin is Sodomy and Sex out of marriage.

There are many reasons why, from a historic view, that these 2 things would be classified as a sin. Sodomy because you are putting something somewhere it doesn't belong at all. The walls of the anus are actually extremely thin, because of that, if a person was to get too into the moment, and lack lube, that could theoretically rupture the anus, and cause massive bleeding, as well as infection. The result back in that day would be or could be a slow painful, death.

The reason why sex outside of marriage was considered a sin, was to protect the woman. If she was giving the milk away for free, chances are no one was going to buy the cow. Same principle applies today. Would you marry a woman with 6 kids, by 10 different fathers that gave you sex all the time, while cheating on you? Cause if you didn't save and protect your daughter, that what she would be classified as.

Thats just my opinion anyway

Cheers

Camain




The reason why sex outside of marriage was considered a sin, was to protect the woman


No guy,, the reason it is a sin punishable by death for committing adultry for both male and female was ,,, oh forget it ,, I have explained this so many times it is just not worth the aggravation I get from the ignorant sensitivities of the gay community thinking when I recite the Bible it is MY homophobia or my bigotry or my hatred blah blah blah when I couldn't care less what they do. The point is, it is a sin because God said it was and nto to lay with strange or un-natural flesh, not to lay with another man, man with man and not to lay with another woman, woman with woman.

A man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they will be one in flesh.

- Con


[edit on 9-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by blueorder
 


Back to the basis, the word homosexual is not part of the original scripts and to use it in a manner that is offensive and possible to cause hate crimes is a valid issue for a law sue.

Taking into consideration that this is done to the bible.

It merit a law sue to the company involved in what can be call a hate crime.

Hate Crimes Laws

www.adl.org...



[edit on 9-7-2008 by marg6043]




the word homosexual is not part of the original scripts


You're right marge but the words Coca Cola, stay free mini pads, trojan enz, queer sex, gay sex, heterosexuals, etc are also not part of the original hebrew scripts. When the book says a man should not lay with another man, the author assumes you have the common sense to know what that means whether the word "homosexual had been invented yet or not.

That is what translation is about to update the original texts to the common language of the day.

How this causes hate crimes is absolutley silly when this is what the book says in todays vernacular for people who have homosexual proclivities.

You would be going down a slippery slope calling that a hate crime as it is going into thought crime when no crime has been committed and the rest would violate ones freedom of speech.

- Con








[edit on 9-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


You wrote:

“When the book says a man should not lay with another man, the author assumes you have the common sense to know what that means whether the word "homosexual had been invented yet or not.”

Why don’t people translate this: a man should not lay with another man
To this: a man should not lay with another man
It is not like some kind of word that is none existent in any language.
I agree that translation should follow the original texts to the letter sot of speak if not then learn the language…

kacou



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Back to the basis, the word homosexual is not part of the original scripts and to use it in a manner that is offensive and possible to cause hate crimes is a valid issue for a law sue.





I disagree, it should not be the case that because something is "offensive" you should sue, for frig sake some people find homosexuality "offensive" are you suggesting they have the right to sue?!?

Your comment about "possible to cause hate crime" is to wide ranging to be employed- finding homosexuality a sin is not a crime, regardless of someone trying to tenuously associate "Hate crimes" with it. I could just as well say that because single mothers are more likely to produce criminal offspring that being a single mother is a hate crime- clearly I am not saying that because it is a ridiculous argument, as is your defence of "hate crime" in this instance



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by kacou
reply to post by Conspiriology
 


You wrote:

“When the book says a man should not lay with another man, the author assumes you have the common sense to know what that means whether the word "homosexual had been invented yet or not.”

Why don’t people translate this: a man should not lay with another man
To this: a man should not lay with another man
It is not like some kind of word that is none existent in any language.
I agree that translation should follow the original texts to the letter sot of speak if not then learn the language…

kacou


Argumentative: you know damn well why they translate it smart guy, THIS WAY when it says HOMOSEXUAL their will be no mistake with the interpretation as their obviously is now with man laying with another man and people like marge not thinking it is referring to homosexual sex merely because it doesn't use that word.

I think marge is much more intelligent than that myself but I know what she is doing also. It's like a motorist pulled over by a cop for speeding and when the cop says "you know how fast you were going?" (the cop already knows he broke the law) the driver shows him his drivers license and says "see it says right here officer,, "NO RESTRICTIONS"", as if it means he can go any speed he wants.

The other reason they translate it is to make it accessible to all of us .

- Con

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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Back to the issue of the law sue again,

I have read the entire link to the case and it seems that the Christian publisher Zondervan indeed targeted the word homosexual as derogatory when they started to publish their version of the scripts back in 1982 and 87.

From the link,

Fowler says Zondervan Bibles published in 1982 and 1987 use the word homosexuals among a list of those who are "wicked" or "unrighteous" and won't inherit the kingdom of heaven..

Now this was indeed an alteration of the original text, But, the publisher did this during the 80s and later bibles do not contain such change and the added homosexual word, this will make a an issue that it was targeting a part of the population the homosexual population.

Now, Fowler claims pain and suffering for the last 20 years as his pastor used the modified bible in his congregation causing stress to him.

This is kind of too late to bring a law sue and a complain, while he can have a court case on the issue of charging words in published bible for the intention of targeting a specific group of people and cause hate crimes, he waited too long

Either way after waiting 20 years the court can take it or just dismiss it depending how good Fowler's lawyer present the case.



[edit on 9-7-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by Conspiriology
 


Hold your horses there, Conspiriology, I am debating the issue of the law sue and its merit because that is what the OP refers too, I don't care about the religious bible connotations, preaching or the homosexual "problem".

I always regard you as "intelligent" but on the religious fanatical borderline.


No offense


[edit on 9-7-2008 by marg6043]

[edit on 9-7-2008 by marg6043]




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