Brainwashing and "The Third Wave", page 1

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Topic started on 8-7-2008 @ 10:17 PM by LLoyd45

I saw this movie my Senior year in high school, and it left a lasting impression on me. I often wondered if it really was possible for normal, everyday, intelligent people to be manipulated in such a manner.

The Wave is based on the real experience of a high school class in Palo Alto, CA (USA), in April 1967. History teacher Ron Jones attempted to teach his pupils the realities of fascism by encouraging them to form a kind of classroom Hitler Youth. This movement became so popular that the life of the whole school was affected. Jones later wrote down his experiences with his history class, and published this as a report entitled " The Third Wave".

It was published in many magazines and won Jones instant fame. He was interviewed by radio stations and newspapers, and even appeared on "Good Morning America". Later the story was made into a successful film which was shown on American TV in the autumn of 1981. After this broadcast the novelization rights of the TV film were sold to a large American publishing company which commissioned a well-known writer of young adult fiction, Todd Strasser, to write the novelization of the film version. This he did under the pseudonym Morton Rhue. Ever since its appearance in book form the novel has been extremely popular among young people.

YouTube Link

Part 2

[edit on 7/8/08 by LLoyd45]

reply posted on 8-7-2008 @ 10:50 PM by JoshNorton

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I saw this movie my Senior year in high school, and it left a lasting impression on me. I often wondered if it really was possible for normal, everyday, intelligent people to be manipulated in such a manner.

Well, it seams clear from the description that it IS really possible, or at least WAS in pre-WWII Germany and Palo Alto circa 1967. You want to elaborate your take on it? You haven't given us much to discuss yet.

reply posted on 8-7-2008 @ 11:14 PM by passenger

Human beings are extremely malleable. This guy just re-discovered principles that cults, dictatorships and the military have already known about for ages. Interesting how quickly it can be done if you do it just right though.

You can also create the reverse effect. Try this in a classroom (this works best in a crowded course with limited seating):

For the first week or so of class, sit in the same seat. This usually happens as people will sort of automatically pick a certain seat and stick with it. After a seating ‘order’ is established, start showing up early and sit in a different seat. This displaces someone else from ‘their’ seat. They move to a new seat and the process continues. Each day thereafter, sit in a different seat. Soon two results will occur: 1) Some people will start arriving earlier and earlier to get ‘their’ seat and/or 2) Some people will refuse to sit in a seat that is not ‘theirs’ and complain and possibly even fight over ‘their’ seat (beware) with others. After sufficient chaos is created, start sitting in your original seat. People will go back to the seat they assigned themselves.

The point is that people are easily conditioned and when you break that conditioning it causes them to do things they normally wouldn’t. But they only do, or don’t do, these things because they just automatically do them without thinking. If you can find a hidden motivator, and turn it on or off, you can easily manipulate them into doing all kinds of things without even being aware that they are being controlled - or why they are.

reply posted on 8-7-2008 @ 11:15 PM by LLoyd45

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Well, it seams clear from the description that it IS really possible, or at least WAS in pre-WWII Germany and Palo Alto circa 1967. You want to elaborate your take on it? You haven't given us much to discuss yet.

When I was a teenager Josh, I honestly didn't believe it was possible unless the subjects were mentally deficient and extremely weak-willed. Twenty-seven years later, with many more life experiences under my belt, I now believe it's completely possible.

There are millions of people today who feel disenfranchised and excluded from the mainstream of society. The reasons are legion.. poverty, isolation, lack of family ties, poor social skills, etc. I think this is why there's such a draw to gangs today.

In my opinion, people have a natural need to belong to a group that's much larger and grander than theirself. They need to feel needed, useful, and loved. The Wave I think demonstrates this perfectly.

[edit on 7/8/08 by LLoyd45]

reply posted on 8-7-2008 @ 11:59 PM by JoshNorton

Certainly. I'd even suggest that there are at least two "types" of such instances: One where the person directing the actions of the masses has some form of institutional authority, such as the teacher in The Wave. Another case can be pure charisma of the leader. I don't think anyone would deny that Charles Manson is a fairly contemptible person, by all descriptions an absolute toad of a man, but he managed to convince others to commit murder. (I'm sure there were drugs involved as well, and one could make an argument for his followers being weak-minded, but ultimately the effect was the same.)

reply posted on 19-4-2011 @ 03:34 PM by masqua

Ron Jones was one of those teachers I wish I'd had in high school. Imaginative in his methods of instruction, he would go the extra mile for his students.

Social Studies can be boring, but not in Ron's classes they aren't. He actually invokes the system to show how it works. What happened next was 5 historic days... 5 days that taught a lesson no-one expected.

What came to be known as the "Third Wave" began at Cubberly High School in Palo Alto as a game without any direct reference to Nazi Germany, says Ron Jones, who had just begun his first teaching job in the 1966-67 academic year. When a social studies student asked about the German public's responsibility for the rise of the Third Reich, Jones decided to try and simulate what happened in Germany by having his students "basically follow instructions" for a day.

www.ronjoneswriter.com...

Strength Through Discipline

First item on the agenda was a spotless classroom and chairs placed in neat rows. As the class assembled, they were told to sit 'at attention'... back straight, feet flat on the floor, hands behind the back and no talking. Complete authority was given to Ron, who would from now on be known only as Mr. Jones

Strength Through Community

Giving up your individuality. One only spoke with other's in the Third Wave. No idea was presented which was not vetted by at least three members but, outside of the classroom, no more than three might congregate either.

Strength Through Action

Membership cards, spies for possible internal conflict, a salute and banners became part of the system. There was even a personal body guard for Jones... one he never even asked for.

Coup attempts were uncovered.
Students fromm other Palo Alto schools joined in.
The teacher himself began to enjoy the power.

It got severely out of hand, disrupting the schools routine and there were even threats of violence.

I hope you will take the time to read the full text of the above link.

Some additional information:

As one, the students shouted, "Strength through discipline!"

After a long silence, Jones began to speak. "There is no such thing as a national youth movement called the Third Wave. You have been used. Manipulated. Shoved by your own desires into the place you now find yourselves."

He showed a movie of Hitler at the Nuremberg rally. The students and teachers saw that they had only too readily adopted many of the behaviors they were witnessing on the screen. They realized the possibility that it could happen here.

www.paloaltoonline.com...