First Responder States CD Countdown before WTC 7 Collapsed

Originally posted by gavron
Unable to provide evidence to back your ridiculous claim. Keep trying though,

Looks like you cannot post any evidnece to support your opinion. So are you going to be adult enough to admit it is just an opinion and not fact?

And thanks i will keep backing up what i post, unlike others on here like you i can do research and back up what i post.

Also you do know that firemen and rescuers go into burning buildings all the time, so it would be a big deal for firemen to go in building 7 to bring it down. Specailly since photos show only some fires on upper floors, no big inferno.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Also you do know that firemen and rescuers go into burning buildings all the time, so it would be a big deal for firemen to go in building 7 to bring it down. Specailly since photos show only some fires on upper floors, no big inferno.

It would be a big deal. Just like you stated. Since there is no evidence that firefighters have gone into a burning building and "brought it down" before.

Thank you for confirming that.

double post - silly internet lag.

sorry about that.

[edit on 23-7-2008 by gavron]

Originally posted by gavron
[ It would be a big deal. Just like you stated. Since there is no evidence that firefighters have gone into a burning building and "brought it down" before.

How old are you ?

Sorry but i meant it would not be a big deal since firemen go into burning buildings all the time. So do rescue crews.

Can you debate the photos only show some fires on the upper floors?

Still waiting for you to admit that its only your opinion that its never been done before.




[edit on 23-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Still waiting for you to admit that its only your opinion that its never been done before.

Hate to burst your fantasy world bubble, but it is a fact. You are just to immature to admit it. However, we are willing to give you a chance to prove us wrong.

Show us your proof that its been done, ULTIMA1. Prove everyone wrong. Show us that everyone in the world is wrong and only you are right.

Otherwise, face the cold, hard fact that ANY fire dept would not send men into a still burning 20+ story building, to cut beams with thermite cutters or charges, to bring it down.

Fact.

Originally posted by gavron
Hate to burst your fantasy world bubble, but it is a fact. You are just to immature to admit it.

'

Hate to burst your fantasy bubble but if you have no evidnece to support your statement then it is just an opinion. Please be mature enough to do research and post evindece to support your statements.

How many facts and photos do i have to post of firmen and rescue personal going into burning buidlings before you will be mature enough to admit that they go into burning buildings all the time?


[edit on 24-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
How many facts and photos do i have to post of firmen and rescue personal going into burning buidlings before you will be mature enough to admit that they go into burning buildings all the time?

...and setting charges or using thermite cutters to bring it down in a controlled demo? I'd settle for 1 or two.

However, you have failed miserably at providing even one photo, or one link to ANY evidence that fire depts have done this before.

When will you be mature enough to admit you have been caught in a lie?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Hate to burst your fantasy bubble but if you have no evidnece to support your statement then it is just an opinion. Please be mature enough to do research and post evindece to support your statements.

How many facts and photos do i have to post of firmen and rescue personal going into burning buidlings before you will be mature enough to admit that they go into burning buildings all the time?

MY statement is that YOUR statement is not believeable, and so YOU need to supply some backup. Namely, that ANYONE would go inside a burning building of that size, that they believed was going to collapse, where there are NO lives in danger, and bring down the building. YOU need to supply evidence of this - it's YOUR claim that is at issue here. Then of course, you need to reconcile that the firefighters in WTC1 evacuated after 2 collapsed, since they THEN believed that 1 could collapse too, even though they may have been able to save some lives. Which of course shows that they WILL NOT endanger their lives recklessly. THAT is the evidence for my position that you are asking for. Now provide yours.

Yes, they go into burning buildings...... in order to save lives. But they take a calculated risk, again evidenced by their evacuation of 1 after 2's collapse. They WILL NOT go into a building that they believe that is in danger of collapsing in order to prevent a fire from spreading to other property. Insanely stupid to even suggest that.....

Originally posted by Seymour Butz
Yes, they go into burning buildings...... in order to save lives. But they take a calculated risk, again evidenced by their evacuation of 1 after 2's collapse. They WILL NOT go into a building that they believe that is in danger of collapsing in order to prevent a fire from spreading to other property. Insanely stupid to even suggest that.....

Well said!!

I just dont understand ULTIMA1's logic: He says they were afraid of the fire jumping to other buildings, so their next logical decision is to demolish the building? The risk of a collapsing that skyscraper with thermite cutters/charges is less than putting a unit or two in adjacent buildings to stop flare ups from fires?

[edit on 24-7-2008 by gavron]

Looks like I'll have to answer my own questions

In his own words the chief said the decision was made to clear a collapse zone around WTC7 and the building being over 600' tall would require a circle of at least that radius all around the site. I've seen suggestion of it being 1.5 times that height which makes it 900' all round.

How many buildings would be in that area with occupants still inside, not to mention sightseers, reporters, residents, firefighters, police and other emergency services people and how can you be certain you've pulled them all out - virtually going door to door and checking.

They declared the area cleared (of everyone) in about 2 hours which I think is an incredible effort for Manhattan.

What would be the point of going to all that trouble if the plan was to bring it straight down?

The actions of the chief suggest he had no idea of how it would fall or even if it would actually collapse to any degree - he just considered it a credible risk and made an excellent call under difficult conditions.

Originally posted by gavron
However, you have failed miserably at providing even one photo, or one link to ANY evidence that fire depts have done this before.

Why must you lie? I have shown 1 building that demo crews were working on while it was being demoed and i am doing reserch to post more.

I can also show lots of photos and facts of firemen and rescuers in buidlings that are on fire and were ready for demo.

You are the one who has failed to post any evindece to support anyything posted. Face you have failed to show where fire departments have not done this before.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
The actions of the chief suggest he had no idea of how it would fall or even if it would actually collapse to any degree - he just considered it a credible risk and made an excellent call under difficult conditions.

I guess you missed Chief Haydens statments that they were afraid of fire jumping the streets. Besides i have proven time after time that the Fire Commander that was talking to Silverstein decided to PULL the building. (which the Fire Commander has authority to do), since the firemen were already out of the building and safety zone.

We do however have the video of the workmen coming out of the safety zone stating the building is coming down.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Why must you lie? I have shown 1 building that demo crews were working on while it was being demoed and i am doing reserch to post more.

...with a wrecking ball from the outside. Are you suggesting that they brought down WTC7 with multi story wrecking balls now? Your link did not show firefighters going into burning 20+ story buildings with thermite cutters or charges to help bring it down.

Originally posted by gavron
Are you suggesting that they brought down WTC7 with multi story wrecking balls now?

NO i am simply proving my point that firemen, rescue workers, and demo crews can be in a building whille burning or being demoed.

Besides as stated many, many times there is no evidence of fires on the lower floors of building 7.

A lovely investigative link on 9/11 and the various articles worth reading....in the end, you.... the reader should make up your own opinion as to what and who conspired or not, because there are far too many unanswered questions still lingering on and further, why was this investigation stopped and disrupted right in the middle of the crucial issues at hand and came to an abrupt verdict of "Not Guilty".

Who is covering up for whom and who benefits from all this, this is the real question to be posed....Who Benefits from all This

www.reopen911.org...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
NO i am simply proving my point that firemen, rescue workers, and demo crews can be in a building whille burning or being demoed.

Besides as stated many, many times there is no evidence of fires on the lower floors of building 7.

Firemen being in a burning building - never questioned.

Rescue workers being in a burning building - never questioned

Demo teams being in a building while prepping for demo - never questioned. (note, in a building, not a burning building. Your post was vague)

HOWEVER,

Firemen or demo teams in a burning 20+ story building, using thermite cutters or planting charges to bring it down? - No evidence it has ever been done before.

Originally posted by gavron
Firemen or demo teams in a burning 20+ story building, using thermite cutters or planting charges to bring it down? - No evidence it has ever been done before.

Well at least you are mature enough to admit to most of my points.

Well the thermite cutters and charges are a common sense choice due top all the molten metal and steel found. But there are other ways and other materials used to bring a building down. Still doing research in the area, like other buidlings that have been brought down.


[edit on 24-7-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Well at least you are mature enough to admit to most of my points.

Those "points" were never questioned. Thats like me saying:
- "Please admit that fire is hot".
- "Please admit that water is wet".
- "Please admit that Chun King eggrolls are awesome".

Then saying, "Thanks for admitting most of my point are correct".

The only point we ever questioned was the only one I asked. that firemen or demo teams have never gone into a 20+ story burning building and use thermite cutters or charges to bring it down in a controlled demo.

Originally posted by gavron
Those "points" were never questioned. Thats like me saying:
- "Please admit that fire is hot".
- "Please admit that water is wet".
- "Please admit that Chun King eggrolls are awesome".

Then why the arguments about firemen, rescue, or demo teams not ever going into a burning building?

The only point we ever questioned was the only one I asked. that firemen or demo teams have never gone into a 20+ story burning building and use thermite cutters or charges to bring it down in a controlled demo.

And the only point i have questioned was the fact that you have no evidence stating it has never been done, its only your opinion that it has never been done.

Also i never stated for a fact it was thermite cutters only that it was the common sense and by educated guess it should be due to amount of molten metel and steel found in all the basements of the buildings, even building 6.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Then why the arguments about firemen, rescue, or demo teams not ever going into a burning building?

Perhaps you are confused. Maybe you should re-read my posts. They are very clear and concise.

And the only point i have questioned was the fact that you have no evidence stating it has never been done, its only your opinion that it has never been done.

And the only point we all have questioned was the fact that you have no evidence stating it has been done before. it is only your opinion that it has been done before.