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Iranian President Says No War With U.S., Israel!

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posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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Yeah, Mind,

I have been outside of the U.S. numerous times and have been a student of history for decades. In addition, I live in a very mixed city, one of the most c ulturall diverse areas of the world with people from all corners of the globe.

You continue to spout nonsense about history with smatterings of the truth that you twist into extremely biased views. You have proven how badly twisted you views are by claiming that everyone should have nuclear weapons and pretending that you have a right to tell other people what their business should or should not be. You know nothing about dignity.

The nations of Islam have been at war for over a thousand years now, essentially since the inception of Islam, and they have been stirring up wars and killing and enslaving vast numbers of people for centuries now. While Saddam Hussain had some involvement with the U.S., when he showed his true colors as a brutal thug, he became the enemy of the U.S..

Most of the armed conflicts that the U.S. has been involved have been in providing military assistance for war torn nations, to prevent the slaughter of innocents. While many associations of U.S. agents and business men are certainly shady characters and the actions of U.S. corporations, and covert U.S. actions are sometimes more than questionable and sometimes inexcusable abuses, overall the will of the people in the U.S. keep these abuses at a minimum, and manage to overall succeed in making the world a better place. This is why the U.S. is a nation loved around the world, even if our image is suffering at this time from the poor leadership of the GW admin..

Meanwhile, Islam continuously and agressively attacks others, murdering innocents by sponsoring acts of terrorism from India and Indonesia to central Asia, China, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, and North America. Your blindness to this reality blinds your sense of morality as well.

Your claim that the U.S. has started more wars or killed more people than any other nation in the last fifty years is just made up nonsense. You care nothing for the truth, you just want to bash the U.S..




posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


Iran is an Islamic nation. Posters here on this board claimed that Iran was a peaceful Nation that had not attacked other nations for a thousand years. I proved that this claim about Iran, an Islamic nation, was false. Besides trying to play word games, do you have a point, other than trying to cloud the reality about the history of Islam?



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
Yeah, Mind,



You continue to spout nonsense about history with smatterings of the truth that you twist into extremely biased views.
What did I twist?. You make all these accusations, but fail to answer them and back your claims. Sorry I can't help you here


God all the name calling and insulting, anyway back up where I'm wrong




You have proven how badly twisted you views are by claiming that everyone should have nuclear weapons and pretending that you have a right to tell other people what their business should or should not be. You know nothing about dignity.


I have alot of dignity, I have a lot of respect for the world around me. You should have respect and stop making personal and untrue judgements about people here. I sense alot of arrogance coming from you with that, and I don't agree with it. and learn to behave in better manner please, let's stick to the topics


2. I have will explain it again, and this is my last time! are you able to pay attention this time now??? I did not say every nation should have Nuclear weapons. I said if one nation is allowed to have nucs, then so is another. If Iran is not allowed, then America is not allowed. Simple as
got it gooooooooood. Now we all clear. Debunked your crap.



The nations of Islam have been at war for over a thousand years now, essentially since the inception of Islam, and they have been stirring up wars and killing and enslaving vast numbers of people for centuries now. While Saddam Hussain had some involvement with the U.S., when he showed his true colors as a brutal thug, he became the enemy of the U.S..

Waffle, mashed up claims mixed with soup!



Most of the armed conflicts that the U.S. has been involved have been in providing military assistance for war torn nations, to prevent the slaughter of innocents. While many associations of U.S. agents and business men are certainly shady characters and the actions of U.S. corporations, and covert U.S. actions are sometimes more than questionable and sometimes inexcusable abuses, overall the will of the people in the U.S. keep these abuses at a minimum, and manage to overall succeed in making the world a better place. This is why the U.S. is a nation loved around the world, even if our image is suffering at this time from the poor leadership of the GW admin..

War is war, stop waffling to make war look good, It ain't good. a million people are missing! The war was not right, it was not supported by anybody but the elites. It was about oil. God waffling and bull# is not needed now. We have 8 years of it. Enough is enough. The world is not a better place. I think your trolling now.



Meanwhile, Islam continuously and agressively attacks others, murdering innocents by sponsoring acts of terrorism from India and Indonesia to central Asia, China, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, and North America. Your blindness to this reality blinds your sense of morality as well.

America is in a war now? Why do you consistinly place the blame elsewhere AGAIN.



Your claim that the U.S. has started more wars or killed more people than any other nation in the last fifty years is just made up nonsense. You care nothing for the truth, you just want to bash the U.S..


No its not. Its not bashing. Your bashing me, and twisting everything. I don't agree with the nations behaviour, I don't agree with the policy. I don't respect your leaders, they do not respect the world. A million iraqs are perished as a direct result of your leaders decision. I don't accept it at all.
I would even say the whitehouse clan should get their finger out now better start behaving now! Like proper human beings
Start with stop lying to their own people maybe? What else, do we need to over the 8 years again??



posted on Jul, 18 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Iran is an Islamic nation. Posters here on this board claimed that Iran was a peaceful Nation that had not attacked other nations for a thousand years. I proved that this claim about Iran, an Islamic nation, was false. Besides trying to play word games, do you have a point, other than trying to cloud the reality about the history of Islam?


well it's peaceful now.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Iran is an Islamic nation. Posters here on this board claimed that Iran was a peaceful Nation that had not attacked other nations for a thousand years. I proved that this claim about Iran, an Islamic nation, was false. Besides trying to play word games, do you have a point, other than trying to cloud the reality about the history of Islam?

Is this a joke or are you seriouse?? I guess I do have to explain in depth for you to understand, Islam is an idea, Iran is a nation rulled by different individuals through time, like for example the American backed king during early 1900s. Islam, Iran two different things, just because the people of Iran embrass Islam as their ideology does not mean Islam is responsible for any actions they commit, ummm just like the example I gave you about the American prisoners. I guess I have to explain everything in depth for you because of your ignorance, this is the big problem people like me face when arguing with ignorants.

Once again as I said before we are talking about Islam, my first comment on you was about Islam not Iran. I'm not twisting words, I'm not a polititian, infact I hate polititians. Islam says no war unless provoked, so if a Islamic nation invades a country without being provoked does not in any way mean Islam is involved, just like president bush invading Iraq without being provoked does not in anyway reflect democracies stand on war.

Need more explanation??



Fire Breathing Terrorists lol



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


What did you twist? You claim that the U.S. has been in more wars and killed more people than any other nation in the world, but you could provide no proof, this is just a claim that has no validity. While the U.S. has been involved in many wars, so have many other nations, and that includes Iran which has covertly and continuously involved itself in conflicts throughout the globe, but you refuse to see the meddling of any other nations.

You claim: "Saddam was a puppet. He was given the power by your government in the beginning. Your government setted him up, gave him all the weapons he ever needed, heck your earliar president even shook hands with him. tHey even let him live, back in the gulf era. Please realise a book has many chapters." Ah, but it is not as simple as that. Saddam at one time worked for the U.S. government, but the rest is an exaggeration. The history of Saddam's rise to power was far more complicated than that, but to admit the real truth, you would have to admit the failures that exist in the world of Islam, and that is something that seems to be beyond your capabilities.

You start off calling me ignorant and pathetic, and then cry foul when I when I return your personal attacks. If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones. If you had any dignity, you wouldn't have started off with the personal attacks like you did.

As far as the possession of Nuclear weapons is concerned, you claim "if one nation is allowed to have nucs, then so is another." Do you realize that no one can put the Nuclear Genie back in the bottle? Whether or not you recognize this, what you are saying is that since one nation has nuclear weapoons, then all nations should have nuclear weapons, and that is insane. Here is another reality point that you should consider. As long as Iran is not in possession of Nuclear weapons, there is no chance that the U.S. will ever use weapons on Iran, or Israel either. Should Iran ever develop a Nuclear weapon, then the possibility that the U.S. or Israel might ever use nuclear weapons against Iran increases vastly. Why does the U.S. have nuclear weapons, because we developed them first, and after using them in a war, we vowed never to use them again, except to protect ourselves against a nuclear threat. In addition, the USSR developed their own Nukes, and we need our nukes to counter the Soviet Nukes. The fact that nuclear technology is within mankinds reach means that possession of nuclear weapons creates a great deterent for anyone to ever use nuclear weapons. Why does Israel have nuclear weapons. We don't know for sure if they do, but being that jewish scientist developed nuclear weapons in the first place, chance are very good that they do.

Maybe some day when you realize these important points about the possession of nuclear weapons, you will realize that Iran should not be in possession of nuclear weapons.

You think you can ignore the history of Islam, and pretend that others will do the same, then you are being foolish. I recognize the mistakes that the U.S. makes, and I admit them. I see the wacko things our government does, as I made clear when I stated that the Iranian government is more wacko than the government of the U.S., but apparently you are incapable of admitting that the Iranian government can do wacky things.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:40 AM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


Wrong, Islam is not simply an Idea, it is a religion which claims to be the only official word of God, that demands that others follow its laws. This has all been debated before, and the proof of Islam's violent history is well known. Your denial of the violent history of Islam is your own choice to be ignorant.

The oil found under the ground of Islamic nations have made those nations rich, and gave them great opportunity to grow and advance, but instead, these Islamic nations chose to entrench themselve in religious extremism, and to use their wealth to spread this religious extremism. Now now that this wealth is about to run out, as they pump what is remaining of the oil under their land out of the ground, their opportunity to embrace the future is being squandered, and that is a shame.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b


What did you twist? You claim that the U.S. has been in more wars and killed more people than any other nation in the world


Wrong. I said in the last 50 years. America has been in more wars than any other nation in the last 50 years, Anyone will tell you that. In my 22 years of existence I'm proof of the last 22 years. America goes to war every few years, Its a profitable business. Sorry that you can't simple maths.




the U.S. has been involved in many wars,

To many I agree.



Iran which has covertly and continuously involved itself in conflicts throughout the globe,
where's your proof.



Ah, but it is not as simple as that. Saddam at one time worked for the U.S. government, but the rest is an exaggeration. The history of Saddam's rise to power was far more complicated than that, but to admit the real truth, you would have to admit the failures that exist in the world of Islam, and that is something that seems to be beyond your capabilities.


1. Is really that simple when you look at it.

2. Failures are in every religion and nation, STOP BEEN RACIST.

3. What is beyond my capabilities, I'm allergic to bull#, if anything, I can't help you this allergy.




You start off calling me ignorant and pathetic, and then cry foul when I when I return your personal attacks. If you live in a glass house, don't throw stones. If you had any dignity, you wouldn't have started off with the personal attacks like you did.

Ok Here's from the very beginning with your attacks
I'll prove your wrong again and debunk your crap.


the most foolish poster here on these forums

And...

This is how foolish your ideas are. Try turning on your brain

Oh and the lack of dignity I seem to have


, but anyone with a shred of dignity knows better

AGAIN

You know nothing about dignity


Poet stop blaming me for your own insulting and personal insults. You have proven your own judgment of yourself. I don't need to attack you. You even blaming me, that its my fault that I attacked you. lol



Do you realize that no one can put the Nuclear Genie back in the bottle? Whether or not you recognize this, what you are saying is that since one nation has nuclear weapoons, then all nations should have nuclear weapons, and that is insane.
The IRA was one of the biggest terrorists organisation in the world a few years ago. They have disarmed, to the point, that they appear not to even exist anymore. Northern Ireland has being peaceful for the last 2 years now. This really happened. Now come to my point, there is nothing insane about your country giving up NUCs, if its insane for Iran to have them, Its insane for America to have them. Got it goooooooood.




Here is another reality point that you should consider. As long as Iran is not in possession of Nuclear weapons, there is no chance that the U.S. will ever use weapons on Iran, or Israel either.
Then give up your nucs then if you think U.S won't use them. If America thinks they can have nucs, then other nations feel they have the right too, you are going to have to understand that. Whether you agree with it or not.



Should Iran ever develop a Nuclear weapon, then the possibility that the U.S. or Israel might ever use nuclear weapons against Iran increases vastly. Why does the U.S. have nuclear weapons, because we developed them first, and after using them in a war, we vowed never to use them again, except to protect ourselves against a nuclear threat. In addition, the USSR developed their own Nukes, and we need our nukes to counter the Soviet Nukes.
Its going back to a childish way of thinking. He has, so i can have, if he has more then I'm beefing up my weapons. If my brother has more candy than me, I'm going to ask Mum for more sweets.......... Stop wafffliing and accept the fact, of how rediculous this is.


Why does Israel have nuclear weapons. We don't know for sure if they do, but being that jewish scientist developed nuclear weapons in the first place, chance are very good that they do.
Of course they have, they wouldn't be threatneing Iran like they had been, If they didn't.



Maybe some day when you realize these important points about the possession of nuclear weapons, you will realize that Iran should not be in possession of nuclear weapons.
Then you should realise that the USA should not be in possession of NUCS either. Can't hold one concept and not the other.



You think you can ignore the history of Islam, and pretend that others will do the same, then you are being foolish.
stop using religion as another stupid claim for your arguments. It has nothing to do with religion, The WMDs and this war gas nothing to do with it, your biased views, come directly from the media almost, it's that obvious. Ranting about religion, do you even realise you have a personal issue here. Do you know anyone who is Muslim. Why are you bringing religion into it? Every religion has their set beliefs, you have to respect that regardless. American people need to learn this fact. Its disgusting the way bias your views. You don't see Muslims coming to your country and try convert you, because they don't like your Christian religion. I'm sure Buddists don't agree with somethings that are in Hinduism. Doesn't mean one relgion can impose over another, and certainly does not give you the right to impose one relgion over another. I hope you become a little more wiser after this paragraph.



I recognize the mistakes that the U.S. makes, and I admit them. I see the wacko things our government does,

Now deal with the mistakes before you point the finger somewhere else



as I made clear when I stated that the Iranian government is more wacko than the government of the U.S., but apparently you are incapable of admitting that the Iranian government can do wacky things.

Again deal with your mistakes before you point the finger elsewhere.



[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Dont even bother debating Mind is the Universe, he will never quit. He will keep calling you a "child" and say there is no logic in your argument. The same thing happened to me in another thread. He brings up the "brothers and candy" example all of the time. He knows he is wrong but just wants to bait people into a heated argument. Not worth it. His reasoning makes no sense, it is like that of a "child"!



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by bakednutz
 


Yep, you are right, he keeps going on like no one else has bothered to read the thread, and that they buy that he is telling the truth, when a quick glance at the thread shows how dishonest the guy is.

He still goes on spewing out his delusions as if anyone but his fellow nut cases believe him.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by bakednutz
 



And what are you doing now? Stop making an issue.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
and that they buy that he is telling the truth, when a quick glance at the thread shows how dishonest the guy is.

He still goes on spewing out his delusions as if anyone but his fellow nut cases believe him.


That was rude. And back up where your saying I'm dishonest


Your Now accusing me of been a liar. So yes I'm dealing with children here. In fact worse. I will speak the truths, I will for what I see, and I will not accept the behaviour of some arrogant and ignorant people here. I'm against war. I don't agree with the behaviour of America. If the behaviour is not right and people don't think it's right. Their is nothing for me to feel guilty about. I wll not be bulled by either of you for it either. So please calm the both of you.

Why is it that some ignorant Americans, continue, to insult, blame, accuse and attack people here for speaking out.

Thats exactly why It's childish, Hope the two of you can take responsibilty for your behaviour.

So lets stick the reality and stop throwing personal insults. Your attacking me personally. I'm attacking the behaviour.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by mind is the universe]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


You are free to speak out here. I really dont care how outrageous some of your beliefs are. All you have to do is stop with the name calling, (the child stuff). And just accept that people have different opinions. Thats it. If you want to have a civil debate lets do it. But dont get angry about differing opinions and start saying we dont have any logic or our behavior is like that of a child. Just say you dont agree. Its that simple and you will enjoy ATS so much more.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by bakednutz
 



get back on topic and stop blaming people for your own behaviour. take responsibilty. I'm not angry over this, believe me.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by mind is the universe
 


Wake up and smell the coffee. You are the one who starts the personal attacks, and most of your posts are simply personal attacks, all the while you fail to make legitimate arguments or to back up your claims. You need to grow up if your ideas are ever going to get any respect. Concentrate on developing your ideas, and let the personal stuff go.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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You suppose to attack the post...not the person posting the response.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 12:28 AM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Wrong, Islam is not simply an Idea, it is a religion which claims to be the only official word of God, that demands that others follow its laws. This has all been debated before, and the proof of Islam's violent history is well known. Your denial of the violent history of Islam is your own choice to be ignorant.

The oil found under the ground of Islamic nations have made those nations rich, and gave them great opportunity to grow and advance, but instead, these Islamic nations chose to entrench themselve in religious extremism, and to use their wealth to spread this religious extremism. Now now that this wealth is about to run out, as they pump what is remaining of the oil under their land out of the ground, their opportunity to embrace the future is being squandered, and that is a shame.

aaaa and what do you think a religion is?? An idea, OK as I said previously I have to explain everything to you.

Here's the definition of idea: "the content of cognition; the main thing you are thinking about"

Here's the definition of cognition in case you don't know: "mental functions such as the ability to think, reason, and remember."

Anyways you talk about the violent history of Islam very much, and you judge Islam based on the wars started by Muslims?? Please mention the name of one war, so we can start the discussion on it. By the way you can't judge a system or an idea based on it's followers. You can't judge Democracy based on it's followers, you can't tell me that Democracy is wrong because Hitler was it's product. Hitler came to power through Democracy, soooo should we judge Democracy based on it's violent past and completely ignore the idea. It's stupid and ignorant. I have already told you this in my two previous posts but you don't seem to get it.

WWI and WWII both product of Democracy


Want more explanation??



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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reply to post by Ownification
 


Let's get into the basics, and idea is a single concept, like, "All men are created equal". In and of itself, it says a lot of things because it is a very powerful idea, but it is just a single concept. Religion is is much broader, more like a philosophy built upon numerous distinct ideas that people use to guide themselves through life. Different philosophies and religions can share the same ideas, like, "God created the world", but that is only one idea, one concept. Still, religion is a step beyond a philosophy, it is broader and more life encompassing. Religion requires that someone stick to a specific creed, a definition of morality that ties their behavior to very specific deeds, actions, and outlooks. Religion draws distinct lines between people, born out of powerful convictions that theirs is the only true way, built upon developed lines of logic that tie numerous ideas and philosophies together to establish a way of life that supposedly determines the existance of ones immortal soul. Can you wrap your brain around this?

Yes, you can judge a religion by the actions of its followers, because religions guide the actions of those who follow those religions, those sets of beliefs. The way Muslims treat their women is based upon their religious beliefs.

As far as democracy goes, Hitler was not a product of Democracy, Hitler was a brutal dictator, a military dictator, the result of a system of beliefs exactly the opposite of democracy, just like Stalin, and all other dictators. You couldn't be more wrong with this example if you tried.

Tell you what, why don't you google up "Islam war history" as I have done, and start reading some of the stuff. I have already provided links detailing Islam's violent past, you can go back through the thread and find those if you so choose, and then you can come back and try to justify Islam's long history of violence. I have already done my homework, why don't you do your own research, and pick out your own historical events to debate. Try and bring something to the table so that you don't look so much like a kid out of his league.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Ownification
 


Let's get into the basics, and idea is a single concept, like, "All men are created equal". In and of itself, it says a lot of things because it is a very powerful idea, but it is just a single concept. Religion is is much broader, more like a philosophy built upon numerous distinct ideas that people use to guide themselves through life. Different philosophies and religions can share the same ideas, like, "God created the world", but that is only one idea, one concept. Still, religion is a step beyond a philosophy, it is broader and more life encompassing. Religion requires that someone stick to a specific creed, a definition of morality that ties their behavior to very specific deeds, actions, and outlooks. Religion draws distinct lines between people, born out of powerful convictions that theirs is the only true way, built upon developed lines of logic that tie numerous ideas and philosophies together to establish a way of life that supposedly determines the existance of ones immortal soul. Can you wrap your brain around this?

Common man, I said before religion is an idea, do you want me to correct my self?? OK! Religion is a collection of ideas, happy?? Makes no difference, so basically my point stands. Democracy is a collection of ideas, Capitalism is a collection of ideas, Communism is a collection of ideas, Nationalism is a collection of ideas. I corrected my self, happy lol


Originally posted by poet1b
Yes, you can judge a religion by the actions of its followers, because religions guide the actions of those who follow those religions, those sets of beliefs. The way Muslims treat their women is based upon their religious beliefs.

OK OK I gave you example for a reason to clarify my point but you didn't get it. What I was meant to say is that you cannot Judge a or an idea by it's bad followers, let me clarify my previous example, Hitler came to power through democracy, do you understand that?? Yes he was a bad man as you state it but there are bad men everywhere in the world but Democracy allowed this bad man to come to power, you can't judge democracy based on that, you have to judge Democracy based on Democracy. You have to judge Islam based on Islam. What does Islam say about the women’s right, what does Islam say about the treatment of women, what does Islam say about war and how war should be implemented. Is that clear enough?? JUDGE ISLAM BASED ON IT'S COLLECTION OF IDEAS.

If a Muslim like Saddam Hussein decides to massacre thousands of people does not reflect Islam's stand on killing innocent human being. Is that clear enough?? or do I need another two or three paragraph.


Originally posted by poet1b
As far as democracy goes, Hitler was not a product of Democracy, Hitler was a brutal dictator, a military dictator, the result of a system of beliefs exactly the opposite of democracy, just like Stalin, and all other dictators. You couldn't be more wrong with this example if you tried.

Yep he was a brutal dictator, a military dictator who came to power through Democracy, you get my point?? I couldn't be more right with this example, Hitler became a dictator after he was elected, and this does not in any ways reflect Democracies stand on dictatorship. Do you get my point now??



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
Tell you what, why don't you google up "Islam war history" as I have done, and start reading some of the stuff. I have already provided links detailing Islam's violent past, you can go back through the thread and find those if you so choose, and then you can come back and try to justify Islam's long history of violence. I have already done my homework, why don't you do your own research, and pick out your own historical events to debate. Try and bring something to the table so that you don't look so much like a kid out of his league.

OK you are the one who keeps blabbering about the violent history of Islam not me, I already gave you my point of view on this, anyways just give me an example of a war. Give me the most violent war Muslims have started so we can take this discussion deeper. By the way it’s not “Islam war history”, it should be “Muslim war history”. Muslims started the wars, if justified or not, if according to Islam or not.

And about your personal insult, if I may take it as an insult, I will just pretend it’s not their.


[edit on 23-7-2008 by Ownification]




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