Some Americans are not supporting our troops, and they should be ashamed!

The best of "them" whether they are American or Mujahadeen are fighting to protect that which they love.

How hard is that to grasp? They fight for that which they love. But based on this thread, some might think they fight for that which is worthless.

Originally posted by Sonya610
The best of "them" whether they are American or Mujahadeen are fighting to protect that which they love.

How hard is that to grasp? They fight for that which they love. But based on this thread, some might think they fight for that which is worthless.

It's not about loving or hating them, or feeling compassionate towards them, of course people do.

It's about supporting them, if one feels the war is wrong, supporting soldiers, will only make everyone think it's "right" to carry on the war.

Definition of support

To carry; to encourage; to assist financially; to substantiate

Do you understand? Yes there are many GREAT people in the army.
But supporting them in a war that many feel is wrong, will give them and the world the "wrong" idea.

Peace.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by shipovfools


I could not agree more. Anyone who signs up to join the military - for ANY reason - gets what they deserve. War is terror, nationalism is absurd, and working for any government (control machine) in any capacity is about the greatest "evil" that I can imagine. The whole idea of nations, government, patriotism, etc. is very outdated. Are we so racist and xenophobic that we have to kill each other? "Tererists" exist in every demographic. The idea that we have to wage a war on "terer" is just silly...if we could encourage self reliance and spiritual maturity (WHATEVER path you follow) for all people, we wouldn't need this BS. It is only by emphasizing our "differences" that they keep you sheeple in mind.

War is terror? Is engaging in war when attacked terror too?

So if someone comes along and just lays the beat down of a lifetime on you, would you defend yourself, or are you just another pacifistic candyassed leftist?

I don't think it's wrong at all to not support the troops. Men and women in the military should expect this. Nobody is obligated to "support" them. Besides from saying you support them what much esle can you do? If you choose not to, no big deal.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin

Because your government in the USA uses its military as if they were as disposable as used condoms, your entire national culture is perverted. Your government uses these honourable men and women to fight illegitimate wars and occupations, and in so doing expose them to dubious and toxic vaccinations as well as so-called depleted uranium dust that is veritably poisoning Iraq. These soldiers come home with all sorts of physical and mental health problems, and your government does nothing for them using the usual phrase employed these days "There is no scientific evidence of a Gulf War syndrome." so as to exculpate themselves from responsibility, but they simply damn themselves twice over.

Once a nation validates a government like the one you have now, it will be a long time till the culture is altered -- if ever -- because it would require national repentance and a Congressional and Executive compulsion to do everything possible for the troops, their families and loved ones left behind, and the health needs of the sick, the maimed and psychologically traumatised among the troops.

The failure starts at the top with the enormous rot in the Oval Office and every sector of the civilian administration of the Department of Defense. Eliminate that rot, and you shall have gone a long way into doing something positive and lasting for the men and women who serve and have served their nation with honour and distinction.

[edit on 8/7/08 by Pellevoisin]

What you said, Pelle! Boy you said that better than I could. If we wanted to honor and respect our soldiers and really do something for them, we would have thrown Donald Rumsfeld and George W Bush in jail/gaol. We were so deceived I can hardly believe it. After 9/11 they played us like a Stradivarius and we didn't get that it was the Devil playing the fiddle. I hope they all burn in hell for what they've done to our soldiers and to our country.

Originally posted by USMC-oorah
I don't think it's wrong at all to not support the troops. Men and women in the military should expect this. Nobody is obligated to "support" them. Besides from saying you support them what much esle can you do? If you choose not to, no big deal.

Yes, I think many people are getting confused with not supporting and hate, they are not the same thing haha.

For example I don't hate you.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by USMC-oorah
I don't think it's wrong at all to not support the troops. Men and women in the military should expect this. Nobody is obligated to "support" them. Besides from saying you support them what much esle can you do? If you choose not to, no big deal.

Yes, I think many people are getting confused with not supporting and hate, they are not the same thing haha.

For example I don't hate you.

Well, alot of people view it as black and white. If you don't support, your on the wrong side. Vice Verse you know?

I personally just have a odd neutrality on alof ot things.

reply to post by Nohup


The difference is that 90% of the young impressionable guys that join the military do so in believing that what they are doing is right, and that they are doing it to protect their way of life and the way of life of their families and friends. So if you agree with the war or Bush or all of that is not really the point, the point is that these guys are willing to stand up and defend people like yourself that don't respect them or think that anyone else should.

Originally posted by USMC-oorah


Well, alot of people view it as black and white. If you don't support, your on the wrong side. Vice Verse you know?

I personally just have a odd neutrality on alof ot things.

Yeah never good to view things as black and white.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I seemed offensive earlier.

Peace.

Originally posted by the_one_below
reply to post by Nohup

 

The difference is that 90% of the young impressionable guys that join the military do so in believing that what they are doing is right, and that they are doing it to protect their way of life and the way of life of their families and friends. So if you agree with the war or Bush or all of that is not really the point, the point is that these guys are willing to stand up and defend people like yourself that don't respect them or think that anyoneelse should.

Most older military men that have been in the military for years that joined for that reason, still hold those reasons high. The military is not a big snarling monster. It's that powerful neutral dog held by a douche bag owner that taught it to attack. It's not the military you should be mad at for the killing. It's the military's master. Believe it, or not nations need military's even after war. I know people have this view, which is fine, that all militarys should be abolished. That's understandable, but being a realist, it's not going to happen.

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND


Of course people dont read as usual. I said if nobody would agree to fight in a war, like me, then there would be no war. What im saying is that i can only do whats right and if the rest kill people then they do that.

I dont need others to defend for me, cuz i dont care if someone comes and kills me, they will answer to that and ill be free to explore infinity.

Originally posted by Double Eights
Most every soldier enlists to protect and defend this country, how can you fault them for that? (I will admit there are those who join just to kill # and blow stuff up).

Don't be naive, the only soldiers that join the army to defend their country are the soldiers of the countries America needlessly invades. Without trying to sound like a dick, the majority of infantry soldiers that fight on the frontline joined the Army because they flopped at school or whatever and haven't got many other places to turn, and the Government prey on this by trying to instill a sense of pride in them and tell them they're "defending their country and their people" but in fact all they're doing is helping the Governments corrupt ways.

[edit on 9/7/08 by Liamoville]

reply to post by Sonya610


The universe doesnt discriminate based on honorable or dishonorable intentions. universal law is not based on human truth, it is based on energy laws.
So, each persons lack of awareness is their responsibility. If you do heinous things and are deluded to thinking your are doing the right thing...guess what...you are still held accountable by universal law.

Also, many of the ignorant elite truly believe they are doing the right thing. Sorry, they arent getting let off the hook on their acts of stupidity either just because they dont think they are doing wrong.

I dont trample the troops, I have compassion for them. They just dont realize the consequences and rules of the cause and effect universe.

Its simple....Do No Harm.......and abandon the self, then you can laugh at anything cuz theres nobody to defend.

People are protecting/defending what they love? Or is it fear?

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Wow, what an offensive reply.

That reply is not offensive at all. It is not even in the category of the truly offensive posts to this thread. It's okay to insult our fighting men and women, but it is intolerable to tell the truth about the leeches who benefit from the sacrifice of others. You are so suddenly sensitive to the feelings of others.

What I stated was the truth as I have observed it.

During the Vietnam war, all the cowards said that if the enemy was on our shores they'd be the first in line to fight.

Well, they have come to our shores. They destroyed the WTC, attacked the Pentagon and were well on their way to hitting the Capitol or the White House and still these worms who are too old to fight now don't even have the gumption to offer support to the war effort and even go so far as to blame our president for the attack on our soil.

Those who today say that they would have fought in WWII because we were attacked must have been asleep since 9/11, because we were attacked and it wasn't a just a naval base in the Pacific. The targets were the center of our economy, the seat our military and possibly the seat of our government or the Chief Executive himself and still they can find no motive to sacrifice so much as a drop of sweat in the defense of our nation.

You ask what Iraq has to do with your freedom. Remember this, nothing happens in a vacuum. Choosing to depose Saddam was not a mistake. It should have been done in the first Gulf War, but UN constraints prohibited it.

But, here we are after the most devastating attack on American soil since the War of 1812 and we have a brutal dictator in power in a key location in the middle east who not only murders his own people wholesale, but brags about his weapons of mass destruction programs and fails to comply with UN ordered inspections. Oh, and remember the first Gulf War when he without provocation invaded Kuwait and set their oil wells afire by the hundreds and blew up pipelines that drained into the Persian Gulf.

Taking out Saddam was a prudent strategy, even if the all the intelligence didn't pan out. The US has broken the back of al Qaeda in Iraq, even if they are not quite dead. The country is becoming more safe by the day. Formerly hostile factions are showing signs of uniting against al Qaeda and perhaps most encouraging, they are requesting a time range for the withdrawal of US troops, an agreement that will be settled in probably less than a month.

Whether the armchair generals agree or not, Iraq became an important front in the war on terrorism, with the added bonus of destroying the tyrannical government and offering Iraq their best chance at liberty in modern times. It's all a part of the big picture.

If you bother to read those links I posted for you, you will see that even in the Good War, WWII, the one that every able-bodied service avoider today would have fought had he just been born soon enough, there were horrible battles that costs thousands of lives each that were in hindsight of questionable value. Regardless, in the face of almost insurmountable odds on a piece of volcanic rock in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, United States Marines battled to the death to take those islands from the Japanese.

Let us consider Peleliu.

One particularly bloody battle on Bloody Nose came when the 1st Battalion, 1st Marines, under the command of Major Raymond Davis, attacked Hill 100. Over six days of fighting, the battalion would suffer 71% casualties. Captain Everett Pope and his company penetrated deep into the ridges, leading his remaining 90 men to seize what he thought was Hill 100. It took an entire day of bloody fighting to reach what he thought was the crest of the hill, but ending up being the nose of yet another ridge, occupied by more Japanese defenders. Trapped at the base of the ridge, Pope set up a small defense perimeter, which was attacked relentlessly by the Japanese throughout the night. The men soon ran out of bullets, and had to fight the attackers off with knives and fists, even resorting to throwing coral rock and empty boxes of ammunition at the Japanese. Pope and his men managed to hold out until dawn. When they evacuated the position, only 9 men remained. Pope would receive the Medal of Honor for his actions.

The Japanese eventually inflicted 60% casualties on [Chesty] Puller's 1st Marines, who lost 1749 out of approximately 3000 men. After six days of deadly fighting in the ridges of Umurbrogol, General Roy Geiger, commander of the III Amphibious Corps, sent elements of 81st Infantry Division to Peleliu to relieve the regiment. The 321st Regiment Combat Team landed on the western beaches of Peleliu, at the northern end of Umurbrogol mountain, on September 23. The 321st Regiment, and the 5th and 7th Marines all took their turn attacking the Umurbrogol, and all suffered similar casualties. By mid-October, the 5th and 7th Marines both lost around half their men while clawing their way through the ridges. Geiger then decided to evacuate the entire 1st Marine Division, to be replaced by more 81st troops. The 323rd Regimental Combat Team landed on October 15, and by the third week of October, most all of the Marines had been evacuated back to Pavuvu. The Army troops headed off to battle the remaining Japanese on Bloody Nose Ridge, fighting it out for another month before finally securing the island. At the end Nakagawa proclaimed "Our sword is broken and we have run out of spears". He then burnt his regimental colors and committed suicide. He was posthumously promoted to Lieutenant General for his valor displayed on Peleliu.

The battle was controversial due to its lack of strategic value. The airfield captured on Peleliu was of little use for the attack on the Philippines. The island was never used for a staging operation in subsequent invasions; the Ulithi Atoll, in the Caroline Islands north of the Palaus, was used as a staging base for the invasion of Okinawa. In addition, few news reports were made on the battle. Due to Rupertus' "3 days" prediction, only six reporters bothered coming ashore. The battle was overshadowed by MacArthur's return to the Philippines and the Allies push towards Germany in Europe. It was said the only useful aspect of the battle was the experience gained in battling the heavily fortified positions across the island. Japan would use these tactics with even greater success at Iwo Jima and Okinawa, inflicting the worst casualties of the Pacific War on the Marines and soldiers.

en.wikipedia.org...

Do you honestly think that the young man who is so sophisticated that it is beneath him to serve in Iraq would be willing to have endured the Battle of Peleliu? And I'll tell you something else, it wasn't just the combat that was a killer on Peleliu. The heat, humidity, the terrain, the mosquitoes, the dysentery, and the malaria made life miserable and accounted for many casualties and deaths.

These are the sacrifices that men who would never see your face or hear your name would make so that you could malign them the way you have on this thread.

Who should be ashamed?

There's quite a bit of wisdom in these words.

THE FINAL INSPECTION
~Author Unknown~

The Marine stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.

"Step forward now, Marine,
How shall I deal with you?
Have you always turned the other cheek?
To My Church have you been true?"

The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
"No, Lord, I guess I ain't.
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can't always be a saint.

I've had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I've been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I never took a penny,
That wasn't mine to keep...
Though! I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.

And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I've wept unmanly tears.

I know I don't deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.

If you've a place for me here, Lord,
It needn't be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don't, I'll understand.

There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the Marine waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.

"Step forward now, you Marine,
You've borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven's streets,
You've done your time in Hell."

/69nc6a

[edit on 2008/7/9 by GradyPhilpott]

Life is endless comedy. Its all perspective and awareness.

We are surrounded by unfathomable, exhilarating , endless eternity of worlds to explore....yet its like we are sitting in hell defending terds until our last breath. lol.

Fear and hell are quite powerful indeed.

Why shouls I be ashamed? you are a nutcase my friend. I never supported the war, therefore I don't support the troops. They are cold blooded killers and if I was in charge i'd personally, exectute them by a firing squad. You see, soldiers get away with shooting a gun and killing people because we are at war, we as citizens can't do that and if we do we are sent to prision. Joining the military is a killer's excuse to murder someone and get away with it..don't compare the other wars, because the Iraq war is nothing like them...It's not much of a war, they don't even have Iraqi troops on their side. and honestly, the troops already get their butts kissed by everyone here. They get the girls, the homes, the cars, the benefits. They are pretty much being treated by people as gods. I'm no pusher and i'm no kiss ass.

they should do their job and not expect an ass kissing, to come with it.

MOD-NOTE: Please Review this Link: Civility & Decorum are required

No more name-calling please.

[edit on 9-7-2008 by Skyfloating]

I am sure your troops did not go there with evil intention. They have good intentions, but who sent them there has other plans

About Abu Ghraib and other stories of killing civilians : any army in a foreign country would do that. See the Stanford experiment, you will see how most ordinary people cannot think for themselves and are transformed by whatever environment they find themselves in

en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 9-7-2008 by pai mei]

When the soldiers overthrow the corrupt, tyrannical US Government and restore peace and freedom to America, I will be in full support of them.

I cannot support those who engage in illegal, immoral wars, though i do realize that many soldiers are very young and have been purposely mislead and/or may not have had any better options in life. Hopefully, they will learn how the world really works soon...

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


You know what Grady, # you. You're so full of # it's probably leaking out your ears. Soldiers are NOT supermen. They are CHILDREN that government assholes recruit and then brainwash to fight wars for gray haired old men. Any man can fight a war. Soldiers are just trained civilians. I think we would be better off with a acual USA wide Militia. Grown men won't leave their families and lives to fight wars overseas to make the rich old bastards richer. I'd say thats probably the main reason we have a standing "Professional" army, they just do what they are told no matter the moral issues of right and wrong, and constitutional and unconstitutional.

One last thing, NONE of you so called soldiers have done anything my ENTIRE life to defend my and my families "freedom". I was born right after vietnam at the height of the cold war, and if you consider that protecting me and my freedom, no thank you, I'd rather you not. I can take care of myself and my own, I don't need your "style" of protection.

Originally posted by jedimiller
Why shouls I be ashamed? you are a nutcase my friend. I never supported the war, therefore I don't support the troops. They are cold blooded killers and if I was in charge i'd personally, exectute them by a firing squad.

Only an individual who has never served in peacetime or in combat could make such statements, especially the surprisingly duplicitous sentiment that you yourself would murder those who serve to protect your freedom to speaks so cavalierly.

It's not nice to call a member a nutcase.