Some Americans are not supporting our troops, and they should be ashamed!

Topic creator I agree fully with you.

I think the War in Iraq is the worst foreign policy decision in ages and Bush is the worst President this country has ever had, but I still support all the troops over there (and in Afghanistan) if only on principle. These are people who have willingly enlisted and put their lives on the line for this country.

You can endlessly debate whether or not the Iraq War made anyone safer at all (On the whole I believe it did not) but if the day comes when there is a true threat to American security, the same soldiers will be fighting that for us too.

It's a shame the government does not want to provide adequate care for the troops when they return home. I'm ecstatic that Senator Jim Webb's 21st Century GI Bill got passed - when the original GI Bill was passed, it returned $7 into the American economy for every $1 invested and gave millions of Americans a better way of life. Let's hope this new one does the same, and we should be ashamed that some people (President Bush, Senator John McCain, etc.) did not support the bill.

Where can you send items to the troops at????

Originally posted by King Seesar
Where can you send items to the troops at????

I'll give you my address, but I only want booze and money. lol

reply to post by King Seesar


Thank you, even if it's a kindly attempt to placate a man on a rant, and even more thanks if it's not. IMO, this is a good and true organization. There are others. Just sending a card makes a difference.

www.yellowribbonsg.org...

All the best

More:

www.troopssupport.com...

M.M. Bosstones, anyone?

www.youtube.com...


I'm done. Sorry all for uncomfortable silence surrounding my rants. Not sorry for making them.


As you were. Shine.

reply to post by LDragonFire


I think this is more a case about moal corruption or the degrading ethics Americans now posses.

Material/ personal possesions is #1, and law is considered the moral standard. If you are not "breaking" the law, you are doing nothing wrong. The Bible/ religion is #2 (not necessarily a bad thing, but 'God' is put before the fellow man), and your conscious and fellow man is # 3 or lower.

Much of America no longer operates under morality.

I don't think this is about not supporting our troops.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by GhostR1der
In fact, I'd probably enlist in that situation.

Don't kid yourself. You would be drafted and carted off kicking and screaming, unless you deserted first. I've been around long enough to know that the guy who says that he would fight some past or hypothetical war while avoiding a current war wouldn't fight if his sister was being raped in front of him.

[edit on 2008/7/8 by GradyPhilpott]

What current war have you been alive for that there was a draft that was required to preserve freedom? WWII was the last one I know of.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by jprophet420]

reply to post by LDragonFire


While I support our troops overseas I however do not support our current Administration that should have never gotten our soldiers mixed up in Iraq to begin with all for oil and lieing to us about the WMD's being there. It's difficult for any American to honestly right now to support anything Government, and unfortuanately the Military is a large part of the Government, albeit it's a part of the enforcement arm.

I can say truly I understand long distance relationships and being away from loved ones for lenghty periods of time, not in being in the military during it, but I do honestly say I understand and empahsize with the soldiers who are fighting hard in a country where no one wants them, including a large part of the citizens who they are there for to begin with. Long distance relationships suck the big donkey, and I can attest to that, and of course the proverbial "Dear John" or "Dear Joan" letter has to suck.

While I was in the military for a short period of time, I was not in a relationship at the time, but I remember the Drill Sergeant's as well as other leaders later telling all of us the signs to watch for with someone potentially getting a "Dear John" letter, because they become distant, close off communications, as well as if finding out about it, we were told to not let those people isolate themselves for very long, even five minutes might be too long. We were encouraged to open a dialogue of some kind with those soliders, in order to force them to communicate with someone, anyone, so that they had no option to "shut down" emotionally.

I agree with your point of view that it sucks that the soldiers are not being supported, I'm sure it's just as hard on the families back here within the United States having their families ripped apart by a war most of them do not believe in as well as not knowing if their loved one will come back whole, let along come back at all.

If nobody volunteered to fight in wars, then wars wouldnt exist.

So, who says the troops made the right choice to go fight?

Heres a good way to make decisions. When you choose to do something...imagine everyone doing the same thing....Then you can see if that works.

So I choose to not fight and I wish everyone else would wake up too. Is it my fault the rest of the world is too afraid to do the same thing.

Oh but reality is that there are people who will attack us bla bla bla. Yea so what. Attachment is the root of all suffering. Nobody can harm us, we are forever. So why worry about hanging on to everything including your body.

Have you talked to soldiers? The ones I have are pretty messed up after killing loads of people. How is killing ok, because the corrupt govt sanctions it.

Any argument against this is fear and clinging.

Originally posted by troos1
If there was a draft going on, it would be a different story, but I can't bring myself to feel bad for soldiers that were duped into fighting an illegal "war" that is actually a terrorist operation by the US on an innocent country. Perhaps the bad things the troops are going thru is what some call 'karmic retribution'.

I could not agree more. Anyone who signs up to join the military - for ANY reason - gets what they deserve. War is terror, nationalism is absurd, and working for any government (control machine) in any capacity is about the greatest "evil" that I can imagine. The whole idea of nations, government, patriotism, etc. is very outdated. Are we so racist and xenophobic that we have to kill each other? "Tererists" exist in every demographic. The idea that we have to wage a war on "terer" is just silly...if we could encourage self reliance and spiritual maturity (WHATEVER path you follow) for all people, we wouldn't need this BS. It is only by emphasizing our "differences" that they keep you sheeple in mind.

Originally posted by Double Eights

It is absolutely shocking to hear people say, "I don't support the troops." It's equally disgusting to hear them say, "they volunteered for it." Do you know how ignorant you sound when you say those things?

[edit on 8-7-2008 by Double Eights]

It doesn't matter if they didn't know what they were getting into. Yes, lots of kids are duped into this because they see it as an opportunity and never expect they'll end up on the front lines. But the bottom line, is they agreed to become a soldier for the GOVERNMENT (not the land and the people that live here, but the "nation") and hence they have sold their souls to "control" instead of freedom. You want to be a freedom fighter? Start a militia to stand up against foreign terrorists or federal troops when they come to your town. Join the "military" ? You are no better than a politician.

anybody who doesn't support his country war veterans should be ashamed.

I don't understand people who are against them.

ok they don't support war, they have a right to think that.
but not supporting soldiers?? like soldiers choose what to do. only choice they made was to fight for their country. and then people are ashamed of them. what kind of sick logic is that?

be ashamed of your politicians -- they were you choice - they sent soldiers to war . they were your responcibility - so practically you the people sent soldiers to war.

be proud of your veterans - it will be sad day for country when nobody wants to become war veteran for his homeland.

THe soldiers made a decision and it has huge consequences. Dont give me this, but they are doing it for me and my freedom garbage.

Im not going to kill anyone and I dont care if the whole world comes here and kills me. I dont need anyone to defend me because I died years ago.

How do killing and wars create more safety. Thats the male ego illusion. Safety thru scaring your opponent. Does that sound like the truth answer to the predicament.

The answer is to stop being weak and just surrender. Imagine if all 300 million americans refused to fight. All of the sudden the world realized the american military didnt exist. We say yea we are here and we are done fighting....do as you please.

That would shock the world so much, it would cause a massive change in the way people saw life. I think a loving fearless move would alter consciousness so much it would end wars. But of course people arent going to agree with this. Cuz they buy into the fear of humans being inherently war mongers. Thats the lie that is being perpetuated.

reply to post by Double Eights


let's not forget the vast amount of sign ups and recruiting activity in poor sections of town...many of them have little choice other than to join up to hopefully help bring in needed income for family or to help them pay for an education that should be paid for anyway!

Look at the history of the United States...time and time again, it's the poor that fights the war for disagreeing elites who profit off of their backs and literally over their dead bodies.

All one needs to do here is look and see who and what corporations are profiting from this one the most.

It's very sad indeed. These men and women join up and then lay their lives on the line to defend what they believe to be freedom and liberty, and all they ask is that we don't send them into battle unless it's for a damned good reason. I seriously doubt they would consider the damned good reason to be enabling defense contractors to make out like bandits while speculators and the cartel get filthy rich over inflated oil prices!!!

Yeah, I want to sign up to elevate myself just a little while wallowing around in poverty and oppression, to help the rich get richer...where is the dotted line?

For the interested, I’d like to reference: “A People’s History of the United States 1492 - PRESENT” by Howard Zinn.




[edit on 9-7-2008 by skyshow]

Originally posted by jprophet420
What current war have you been alive for that there was a draft that was required to preserve freedom? WWII was the last one I know of.

There was a draft for the war in Vietnam. Even though I was not eligible for the draft until the age of eighteen, I enlisted in US Marine Corps on the buddy plan at the age of seventeen in 1967 and 13 days after graduation, I was in Boot Camp and MCRD, San Diego, CA. I was in Vietnam before my nineteenth birthday and was wounded in action in February 1969, and was seriously wounded and evacuated back to the United States for treatment for burns to 45% of my body surface.

While there was a large contingent of cowardly Americans who insisted that the US had no business in Vietnam, they are ignorant of the SEATO agreement that also brought Australia, New Zealand, and South Korea into the war.

A more practical reason we fought in Vietnam was to help the stanch the threat of global communism which was a direct threat to freedom in the US, which is exemplified by the enormous influence Marxism still has in our country, especially in the academy and in the Democrat Party.

So, the last war we were involved in that had a draft and was a direct threat to American freedom was Vietnam, where we fought not only for our freedom but for the freedom of the South Vietnamese.

I realize that this does not comport with the lies you've been spoon-fed for the better part of your life, but this is the truth.

The success of the US on the battlefields of Vietnam and the almost complete destruction of the VC in Tet 1968 and the crippling of the NVA during Tet 1969 was a message to Russia and China to walk more softly and Vietnam and Reagan's commitment to rebuild the US military during the nineties, really broke the back of the Soviet Union.

China is now more friendly with the US since the Communist Revolution after WW II and they have been moving toward free markets for decades.

So, I'm not sure of what importance your question represents, but there's the story of my call to duty and my voluntary response, even when there was a draft system and plenty of deferments for those who met the myriad criteria.

I chose to serve my country and it is a decision I will never regret.

I will never have to feel the regret that was recognized even in Shakespeare's day:

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

www.chronique.com...

reply to post by maria_stardust


"" I think part of the problem stems from the fact that we're dealing with an altogether differnt generation. A generation that is used to being the center of attention. A generation that demands instant gratification. ""


I'm sorry, but I couldn't disagree more.

The PROBLEM is, LIARS control the news, not truth tellers.

PERIOD!

The generation gap, is a separate manipulation.

reply to post by shipovfools


Yea right on! I agree.

Only surrender of our fear of loss will end the fighting. Just gotta take the damnrisk of dying..who cares, life doesnt end.

I see soldiers as sort of the same religious sheep phenomenon. Just joining some group they think is "good" or "right."

Supporting the delusions of christianity or the govt is the same mistake. I forgive them for their unconsciousness however.

It like civil disobedience of Thoreau or MLK...just gotta disobey and die or go to jail if it comes to that. Thats the highest level 6 of Kohlbergs stages of moral development. Why does everyone respect these guys so much...cuz they were strong and did the right thing no matter what. Not join an organization that is insane and forces them to do act insane.

I think i support the ideologies of Ghandi, MLK, and Thoreau...over the uneducated troops who enetered because they had little choice from acting like an ass in their teenage years or being dumb or brainwashed. Do u respect the troops more than MLK?

Originally posted by Double Eights
If they do that, they are dishonerably discharged and sent to prison. Then, I pose you this question, who is left to defend our country against enemy attack?

You?
[edit on 8-7-2008 by Double Eights]

Yes, if someone was threatening me or or my family, I would fight.

And if I had made the mistake in the past of signing up for the military, yes I would rather live on the streets than join the war...as it is, I often feel I would be better off in poverty than working for the corporate wage slave war machine.

You fight to protect yourselves and loved ones against threat. Not to support the interests of the military industrial complex. Maybe a few generations ago, this wasn't so obvious - i had two grandfathers in WWII and have nothing but respect for them, but they didn't know how things were manipulated to serve corporate interests. Today, it is obvious that war has nothing to do with freedom. And thus anyone who supports or continues to fight in this war has less right to live than an Iraqi "tererist".

Originally posted by sos37

For some, signing up for military duty is a way to serve their country and uphold the ideals they believe in; for others its a great way to learn great skills and pay for school and in return the military benefits from that training.

I can understand and appreciate all that . But the fact remains that they are NOTHING more than cannon fodder as far as the gov't cares. And people really need to understand this at an early age, long before they are brainwashed into "supporting their country" by doing something as stupid as joining the military! If you want to do something patriotic and protect "your people", start a local militia. I do feel bad for these kids who have never been given a chance to think for themselves. But by the time they sign up for service, their beliefs and motives are so twisted that they really are a part of the enemy system.