Self Defence - advice wanted in regards to knife armed attackers

reply to post by Paul


I must agree, I have been confronted by someone with a knife and it will scare the hell out of you, my choice was to run for my life and luckily get away, the other fact diminishing your chance of escape unscathed is also the attackers physical fitness, speed and power coupled with his determination to stab you, you have absolutely no defense and if you do try the odds are against any martial arts level or expertise to successfully thwart a knife attack.

There was a show in I believe on the History channel demonstrating this question where they had an expert high degree martial arts guy, and in the experiment they simply used a fake knife for the attacker and told the expert to use any means he could to avoid being stabbed, in every instance out of many tries the guy with the knife was able to stab the guy multiple times very quickly in the torso.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by phinubian]

reply to post by -Klaus-


The best advice has already been offered to you, i.e. "RUN".

However, sometimes it may happen that you dont have an opening to run or you are with your dear ones and running away would put them to harm. In such cases, I suggest you learn BASIC KRAV MAGA techniques.

And believe me, they are SIMPLE YET EFFECTIVE TECHNIQUES.

KRAV MAGA is an Israeli martial art form without the rigidity of other martial arts. I am an Indian living in Mumbai, and had enrolled with similar concerns that you have aired.

I am in no position to teach you the techniques but I suggest you check out the two main versions of KRAV MAGA (CKM - Commando Krav Maga founded by Moni Aizik) or IKMF ( headed by Eyal Yanilov). Google these terms and you will get all the info you seek.

I hope to have been useful to you.

Ok,

Stick to well lit, densly populated areas wherever possible. There are lots of cameras in London and these can be useful deterrents. Walk alone only when necessary, and try to stay aware of your surroundings wherever you can.

It's unlikely anyone will just come up to you and stab you for the sake of stabbing you, don't give into the fear mongering mentality. In the event that you find yourself in a situation where you're being mugged or threatened with a weapon, stay calm and give up your phone, your cash, or whatever it is thats being asked of you; its stupid to risk your life to defend a few material assets that can easily be replaced. Only engage, or attempt to disarm or immobilise your target if you have years of practical martial arts experience and feel entirely capable of doing so without putting yourself in jepoardy. Again, if you get caught up in the adrenaline of the situation and start acting panicy and unpredictable the more likely it is that you'll end upescalating the situation unnecessarily. Remember the ideal of the martial artist is to train in combat sufficiently so that one feels no need to have to ever resort to combat lightly; if you increase your awareness sufficiently you should be able to avoid putting yourself in most dangerous situations to begin with.

Hi Claus, I would start of by taking up any martial arts training you can to boost your confidence. I would say keep to the basics, KM and Aikido have some simple knife defense techniques. Carry a thick mag' or something similar thats been put forward by other posters to use to aid your defence (carrying a weapon can lead to more trouble than its worth).
But the main thing to remember is no one is just going to stab you for the sake of it, if your mugged you can always replace a mobile or a wallet but not your life, so stay calm and if you can't run then just handover your stuff with a smile.


[edit on 8-7-2008 by Kurokage]

Some excellent posts!

I think "run" is the best advice and it is what I would do. I am a woman, therefore not as physically strong as most men ( assuming attacker is male as alas they most often are).

I've had a gun in my face and I ran. Probably not the best thing in hindsight, but at the time it was either " get in the car or I'll kill you". I knew getting into that car would be fatal. I ran and I know it saved my life.

I was confronted a few years ago in my own back yard in London by a guy holding a screwdriver, He wasn't allowed to be in my back yard as I actually lived above a jewellers at the time, and the backyard had access to the back of the shop ( yes it was multistory before you all get confused).
I walked up to him and demanded to know what he was doing in the yard, I'd then noticed by a very quick glance he was holding his screwdriver in a very tight grip , I focused on his eyes and did my very best not to show any kind of fear, the easy signs to see if someone's fearful is weak eye contact, wide eyes , pale skin colour, frail sounding voice and swallowing a lot.
I'd realised that even though he had what could've been classed as a weapon I could still defuse the situation by commanding language and a forceful tone of voice.

Nowawdays most of the people that carry knives are just doing it to look hard and tough, but mostly are just cowards, it's like a gun in the US , it's an inflated sense of self esteem. But if you are caught in a situation like this just go in acting tough and being loud. If your loud you'll draw attention to yourself and that is what a lot of knife wielding thugs don't want. they don't want to be seen. Shout if you have to and they'll get nervous. A lot of them wouldn't risk getting stabbed themselves if you pretended you knew what you were doing so therefore they scarper.
Always maintain eye contact but try to observe whats going on around you in your periferal vision. You'd be surprised how fast you can react in what could be a frightening situation.
One example from my experience didn't even involve a knifeman. I was doing an evasive driving course and the intructor was sat 6 foot away from me and was talking about threat assesment. He highlighted this by taking out a pen, and said " this is a pen?" then he threw it towards me, I actually had time to say to myself " it's a pen and therefore no danger", I even had time to raise my hand up to catch it in middair. He didn't throw it softly either before you say anything.
In a dangerous event the mind speeds up due to adrenalin released in the bloodstream, the heart quickens and so do the refexes.
Don't act threatened but be threatening and don't try to wrestle the knife off the guy. If you get chance kick them in the nuts of if it's a girl ( like there's a lot of knife carrying girls these days as well) kick them between the legs too. it'll still hurt like a bitch . More chance of knocking the guy unconsious if you kick him hard enough, or at least enough to make his eyes water.
If they demand your wallet take it out and pretend to shake with fear, as your giving to them drop it or throw it at him, his eyes will be drawn to the item in question, thats when you strike..
Living in fear is the worst thing for you, confront it and don't be scared to live your life. Just treat them like the cowards they are, and if you somehow get the knife off them ,poke them with it and say " those that live by the sword"

Failing that keep a second wallet with a fiver in it and give them that. then RUN forest RUN

[edit on 8/7/2008 by DataWraith]

A knife is a disadvantage to the untrained.
If the one wielding the knife is on par with the unarmed man. I would put my money on the unarmed man.
A knife just makes it easier for a person already capable of killing you kill you faster.

take eskrima it is a fillapno martial art

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Ok,
In the event that you find yourself in a situation where you're being mugged or threatened with a weapon, stay calm and give up your phone, your cash, or whatever it is thats being asked of you; its stupid to risk your life to defend a few material assets that can easily be replaced.

forget it, tell this to all the women on board (rape + AIDS...) and to those who are now on a list of missing persons. you can get away with it, then again you might not and i for one would like to see such attackers get killed in regular intervals.

mugging should be a high risk business. today it isn't and tbh, my primary concern isn't about getting killed (need i elaborate?) but getting sued & ruined. think about it, provided you win, preferrably in decent shape (no major wounds) and let him go, he'll have a) friends to pay you a 'visit' and b) might invent a story, which his friends will confirm, landing you in jail.

so, it's a dark alley, right? you know what you have to do, but now, you'd better make darned sure that no DNA samples or other relics remain intact on scene or i bet my (then slightly cut-up) butt that police will expend like 15x the resources to find you they'd have spent had you been snuffed in that alley. LE and local thugs know one another, that'S just the nature of the beast and both hate 'vigilantes' even if you were only hedging your bets.

[edit on 2008.7.8 by Long Lance]

reply to post by -Klaus-


I have studied a lot of martial arts, full contact, knife defenses as well. I would say it's pointless tryign to explain them because you won't execute them properly in the situation if you're unused to the techniques. Anyone giving you advice on that is dreaming or not thinking it through.

So my advice is run when you see a knife and maybe go and find a good self defense class. If you don't know what you're doing then facing someone with a knife is very dangerous, my instructor always said a knife counts for 5 years of training in any martial art.

In the event that you find yourself in a situation where you're being mugged or threatened with a weapon, stay calm and give up your phone, your cash, or whatever it is thats being asked of you; its stupid to risk your life to defend a few material assets that can easily be replaced.

Forgive me but if someone mugs me it's not about the goods, its abt the principle of the matter. I'd rather die then just hand things over, might sound strange to you but i won't sacrifice my principles. I don't care about the Ipod, the watch, the wallet, none of it means much, but the idea of just hadning things over sticks in my throat. I have the expertise to defend myself and if someone pulls a knife on me then they'll wake up in intensive care, with injuries that will effect the rest of their life, and i'll be proud of it.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

As a victim of muggings on more then one occasions I have a few tidbits of advice. If your going up against a single attacker and he has a knife the best course of action would to throw your wallet over his head and run in the opposite direction. He has a knife, has what he wants and you should be at least 10 seconds ahead of him if he decides to run.
However this course of action will not work when you are going up against multiple assailants. Against two people you have a chance of running, assuming your in good shape, however against more then two just be as submissive as possible and hope for the best. However if they are after more then your money look for a opening and scream “fire” as loud and as many times as possible.
There are a few preventative measures I take. Mainly is having a dummy wallet with 40 bucks and a old expired credit card in it while having my real wallet strapped to my ankle. I also never walk anywhere, if the house is close I will be on a bike. As mentioned earlier, always, be aware of your surroundings. NEVER travel with a loved on foot in a bad neighborhood.

reply to post by -Klaus-


Here is my intake. I wield knives on a regular basis, and have done for the best part of 9 years.

Don't listen to any clown who says that you can take on a knife with your bare hands. Any sensible close combat teacher would tell you this. Even if you are armed, avoid conflict as much as possible. If you have space, run.

Anyone who has been in a knife fight and who uses his brain (which means that he doesn't think that because he's still alive means that he's rambo) knows that luck is as important as skill. You don't put your life on the line with this kind of 50/50 statistics. You get the hell away. Any CQT you can be taught are ONLY intended for the kind of situation when your back is up agaist the wall. If you can move, you move.

ANYONE ADVISING YOU TO TAKE ON A GUY WITH A KNIFE IS FOOLHARDY AND IRRESPONSABLE, THEIR ADVICE SHOULD BE IGNORED. THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A REAL FIGHT IS LIKE AND HOW RANDOM THINGS ARE IN THE REAL SITUATION. NO MATTER YOUR TRAINING.

BOTTOM LINE : RUN.

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by -Klaus-

 

Here is my intake. I wield knives on a regular basis, and have done for the best part of 9 years.

Don't listen to any clown who says that you can take on a knife with your bare hands. Any sensible close combat teacher would tell you this. Even if you are armed, avoid conflict as much as possible. If you have space, run.

I agree with running but my instructor is one of the best you will meet, i've learnt from him for years, we practice with real knives sometimes and the defenses against them do work. Whilst i'd argue anyone should try running first please don't think we are clowns for being able to take someone on bare handed, i promise you it's possible.

Anyone who has been in a knife fight and who uses his brain (which means that he doesn't think that because he's still alive means that he's rambo) knows that luck is as important as skill. You don't put your life on the line with this kind of 50/50 statistics. You get the hell away. Any CQT you can be taught are ONLY intended for the kind of situation when your back is up agaist the wall. If you can move, you move.

ANYONE ADVISING YOU TO TAKE ON A GUY WITH A KNIFE IS FOOLHARDY AND IRRESPONSABLE, THEIR ADVICE SHOULD BE IGNORED. THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A REAL FIGHT IS LIKE AND HOW RANDOM THINGS ARE IN THE REAL SITUATION. NO MATTER YOUR TRAINING.

BOTTOM LINE : RUN.

Agreed running is the first choice, if you want to hand over your goods i'm sure that'll be great and might work. I myself have trained for years and i've been in such situations and i've come out perfectly fine, so please don't assume you know it all, if you're trained you can take on someone with a knife, if you aren't trained then just do everything to get out of the situation peacefully.

I've never been involved in any violent altercations involving weapons, thankfully, and I attribute that to awareness, appearance, and confidence. I have long hair, wear a chain, and I look directly at everyone who passes me. Wearing gorey band shirts also probably helps .
My theory is that by looking like I'm the one who's going to stab you then not many people are going to confront me unless they're looking for a good fight. It's an odd take but it's similar to other posters advice about looking confident and being loud.

One thing I haven't seen posted in this thread yet (forgive me if it has) is to travel with another person or a group of people. You are FAR less likely to get jumped in a group than alone. This should be common knowledge. If you see someone acting funny point it out to your companions; like has been mentioned before, thugs try to avoid attention. Being noticed increases their chance of injury and their chance of getting caught. Do not act like you're afraid. Even if you're shaking in your boots, get angry and start yelling. If this does not unnerve the would-be attacker and he brandishes a weapon then run but stick with your friends, if one person gets caught you can at least help each other. If you can't run then be as aggressive as possible. Remember that every time you hit, scratch, bite, kick, etc. that other person is feeling it.

If you do manage to get your attacker disarmed or on the ground don't stop. At this point you can claim self defense so make him remember his encounter with you. If I were in the situation I would personally make sure he would not be capable of doing the same thing to another human being when his wounds heal but that's for another thread.

This is a great thread everyone! I will be utilizing some of the advice myself.

could always look into noise repellers....

a pocket size sound bomb..... both of you can then utilize the art of running for your sanity.....

or you could use that time to kick or punch em in the groin or throat..... if a women of course just the throat.....

our bodies are sooo fragile around our throat area....

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
May i genuinely suggest Bas Ruttens Street Fighting techiques, its been a around a few years now and if youre a rapidshare or torrent user you will find it no problem.

BANGADA BANGADA BANG

BONG BONG BONG

"I break his face"

My old karate instructor once told me that in a knife fight, no matter how good you are, you will most likely get cut.
He also said that despite Bruce lee, nunchucks were a joke in a street fight.
He prefered a Louisville Slugger.
( mental image of the " Baseball Furys" wandering London....)
Barring projectile weapons, I'd go with a stick or long baton.
Heck, they didnt even have MMA when I was studying, but in my personal opinion, Krav Maga would be the way to go nowdays.
Or...you could Crocodile Dundee them.
"That's not a knife.....That's a knife."
Either way, please stay safe.

Collected cigarette ash is very effective when thrown into the eyes of the assailant, so I hear. A strong tourch can also be used very effectively as a self defence weapon, especially if you know what points of the body to strike.

Assuming your in Blighty, if you do manage to get one up don't over do it or you could end up as the attacker in the eyes of the some what odd British laws on self defence!

In many ways its easier to disarm a gun than a knife as its easier to grab and twist out of the assailants hand (hopefully breaking fingers if he/she fails to let go!).

Just remember the closer the attacker gets to you the easier it is to launch a sudden counter attack without giving your motives away i.e. reducing the visability of your sudden moves! Just be aware of the position of the knife at all times!!

[edit on 8-7-2008 by freeradical]

Do what you can do man:

run if you can run
fight if you can fight
talk if you can talk

Whatever you do give it 100% because you are doing it for YOUR LIFE.

The reality of a serious violent encounter where your opponent has a knife is that you run the risk of being dead within minutes!

Knife wounds are no fun!. Just think: Some horrible toerag is going to perform surgery on you in the middle of the street using a dirty blade and no anesthetic!

There are people who will show you a blade to scare you and there are people who will be out to use one on you (sometimes its the same people depending on the circumstances) You need to decide who you are dealing with and play it accordingly. Somebody may just be showing a blade but if you start hitting them they might hit you back with it! At the same time if you run from someone who really wants you dead they may catch you and kill you so you need to fight with everything you have.

If you are dealing with a 9 stone smack head you might just take his knife off him but if you're faced by some coked up muscle head you've less chance!

I've worked in various security related jobs for the last 17 years (I'm keeping this intentionally vague as this is not professional advice by any means!) I am physically fit and an experienced fighter so believe me when I say that every single fight is merely a game of odds, there are no certainties no matter how much you train. All you can do is tilt the odds in your favor.

If you do need to fight for your life then you need to do everything you can. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is a great quote I remember.

There is a book called Dead or Alive by Geoff Thompson, I can recommend it for discussing the reality of violence and detailing some simple (but very powerful) techniques. It is no exageration to say it might save your life one day!

Take care

If you are unfortunate enough to be held at knife point, the first thing is to give 'em what they want - wallet, phone, whatever - your life is much more important than material items. All of them can be replaced.

Then run.

I have long hair, wear a chain, and I look directly at everyone who passes me. Wearing gorey band shirts also probably helps .

I would agree that confidence is very important. Stand tall, walk with authority and presence. I don't think it's a good idea make eye contact with everyone that you pass however. You don't want to over do it.

Avoiding confrontations is a must. If someone starts pushing you around, tell them to stop in a loud, clear voice. Make it clear that you don't want any trouble. Your voice, if used correctly is a powerful tool. Make lots of noise if necessary.

If they persist and begin to attack you, you can either run, defend yourself against them or retaliate. The latter is usually a bad idea, but in some situations you may have no choice but to retaliate.

If they are armed, run as fast as you can. If they are not armed, my advice would be to let them make the first move. It sounds risky, I know, but it's equally risky to make the first move yourself.

If they throw a punch, try to take a step back and grab their arm. The rest is obvious. Do whatever you can to get them to the ground, but only do what is necesary.

As for weapons, don't carry one. Remember, it could end up being used against you. However, you won't be imprisoned for carrying a pencil, or a bunch of keys, but both are effective weapons.

Another thing, don't stay at home worrying. It will not help. From what I have seen, most knife victims are targetted for a reason.

The chances are it won't happen to you... but it is best to be prepared.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by JH80]