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Something has changed, timeline?

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posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by euclid

Originally posted by HarmonicSynchronicity
reply to post by euclid
 

Euclid, the many subjective realities model is testable. Is the many time-stream model testable?


Mr/Ms/It Hormonic,

Firstly, read this in it's entireity.

But it keeps changing every time I look at it. Those fuggers at the LHC must be pushing buttons again!

Euclid, really, I don't mean to throw you on the frying pan in this post (see below), but your arrogance is a little difficult to resist. I don't really think you understand just exactly what you are getting yourself into here. I'll put the kid gloves on for now. Let's play.



Secondly, it is called the MWI (Many Worlds Interpretation) and I did not make it up.

Yea, I saw those movies also. Timecop, Timeline, Back to the Future, Sliders ,... (the list is almost endless). I liked the Jet Li ("The One") movie. Do we get superpowers if our otherselves die like he did?


It was developed by world renown quantum physicists. They have developed physical experiments to test it. It is a well known branch of not only theoretical physics but also of practical quantuam mechanical experimental applications. It is also being applied to everyday practical applications (D-wave Systems - the developer of the furst quantum computing system available for public consumption).

Not really. There are a variety of super-symmetry interpretations of these phenomena. The "all things happen at once in alternate quantum time" is but a single mathematical formulation (of many possibles) of an unknown (not understodo) physical phenomena. You yourself have, on a variety of occasions, made reference to the fact that these same quantum systems appear to respond to the subjective observations of those studying them. Why do you suppose that is?


The LHC is the result of those efforts; it is designed to investigate not only the MWI, string-theory, super-string-theory, higgs boson, but also many other aspects of quantum mechanics. Indeed the MWI is testable; it has already been tested in our past, in the future at the LHC. We in this present-time, the future's past, are seeing its effects as world-line collapses.

No, the MWI is not testable. I have never come across any experiment, whether real or imaginary (thought experiment) which would conclusively prove that the MWI is the correct interpretation of reality. The only thing that can be shown is that the MWI math appears, within the constraints of the experimental systems, to provide statistically significant correlation with experimental data. If you know anything about super-symmetry, then you are aware that other interpretations can map 1:1 with the same experimental results. This is a type of harmonic synchronicity and should be noted (it allows for multiple correct interpretations to co-exist without paradox. Interesting, isn't it?)


The physicist who formulated the MWI theory was Hugh Everett. My ony moldification is that the branching (i.e. creation of "new" worlds for every action - is not necessary for the reason described in prevous posts).

Perhaps I missed it. You have solved the branch inflation intractability problem?


It's also called the Relative State formulation; it is also known as the Many Worlds Hypothesis..... and many other names. But the name doesn't matter.... the experiments are what matter.

The experiments can and do have other interpretations. It is therefore subjective. Isn't that odd?


And yes it is testable and many facets of the theory have been tested and were positive. Here is a brief excerpt from one of the more recent validations:



In a September 2007 conference[9] David Wallace reports on a proof by Deutsch and himself of the Born Rule starting from Everettian assumptions[10] and this has been reported in the press as support for parallel universes.


A mathematician proving a mathematical conjecture is very far from an experiment proving that a particular interpretation of reality is the only valid one. Zzzzt


Get your terminology/philosophy/history/science straight.

Okay. Is there some specific criticism that you have or did you just feel like writing that?


Your "theory" has no foundation in science or reality;

Theory?


you claim it was given to you by some MMORPG administrator who awakened you and showed you what "it/reality" was all about..... whatever........ I don't have time for games (unless they are XBOX360) or puerile belief systems based on games and movies.

What about "The One"? You liked that one, didn't you? Sliders? I'm sure you watch sliders.



Fourthly, your "subjective realities model" is "testable"?????.... you jest!

Yes, directly.

You do it all the time without even realizing you are doing it. You are doing it now. All you have to do is apply a little bit of discipline and you will actually be able to watch reality change around you as you engage with people with radically different super-symmetrical subjective realities. Those points of contention between the two different subjective realities will be forced into paradox resolution. # will change. You can test it. Subjectively ;-)


The definition of the word subjective, as I noted before, is a construct of the human "psyche"!!!!!

Everything you see, everything you do, every thought you have, ever action you take, every belief that you lay your faith onto is subjective. There is no escaping your subjectivity, the fact of your subjectivity is the only objectively true thing in your universe. Care to disagree?


You are beginning slip down a philosphical sink-hole of your own creation (you cannot bulls*** me, though you may fool some of the more gullible in this thread)....

Not trying to. But be careful here, you are engaging someone that will pull you into the rabbit hole, if you dare to continue to engage him.


get straight or I will NOT be able to converse with you any longer;

That will allow your subjective reality to continue without resolving paradoxes with mine. If you value your world view, this is exactly what you should do.


and I may have to retract my pleasentries of you as "at least being intelligent"......

If you like. Makes no difference to me.


This is all very elementary and you are having trouble with the difinitions of WORDS and the history/application/understading of science and philosophy!

Please present your criticism.


Something that is "subjective" cannot nor could ever be "tested" in any way!!!!

You can only subjectively test your subjective reality. Prove to me that there is an objective reality. I dare you.


Subjectivity refers to a subject's perspective, particularly feelings, beliefs, and desires. It is often used casually to refer to unjustified personal opinions, in contrast to knowledge and justified belief. In philosophy, the term is often contrasted with objectivity

Subjectivity is, simply put, your perception. If something can exist, for you, outside of your perception, and you can prove it, you'll have my attention.


1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective).

Yes, exactly. Prove that the object of thought exists. I dare you.


Objectivity, which I have applied to the issue at hand in this thread:



"[A]n objective account is one which attempts to capture the nature of the object studied in a way that does not depend on any features of the particular subject who studies it. An objective account is, in this sense, impartial, one which could ideally be accepted by any subject, because it does not draw on any assumptions, prejudices, or values of particular subjects. This feature of objective accounts means that disputes can be contained to the object studied." (Gaukroger, 2001, p. 10785).

source

Which is meaningless, if you are a brain in a vat. There is simply no way to prove that there is an objective reality. It is simply impossible to prove. Once you really understand this, then we can move forward from there towards enlightenment. But you first must get to that point. Do you dare?


If you have anything that actually-factually makes sense and can be used iin this investigation then please post your contribution, if not then please refrain from subjecting me & (I can't speak for everyone but I'm sure there are) others to your dross new age proclivities.

New Age? That's funny.

Expand your mind. Contemplate objective vs subjective and get back to me and we'll take the next baby-step.




posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by euclid
reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity
 


I'm concentrating.... imagining..... a multiverse without bounds..... I'm wishing you into the cornfield...... or at least another world-line where I don't exist (I wouldn't want to subject my other selves to you).

LOL !

I certainly don't intend to get under your skin. I find you interesting.

Should we start talking about historic events now? Perhaps watch for shifts in our subjective realities? What if I told you that just by discussing a variety of things with me, I could guarantee that you will experience the exact types of "time stream collapses" that you believe are occurring. I may even be able to predict some of the contents of what you will experience as that collapse occurs.

Dare to continue?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 12:40 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


[Edit: Wow I didn't realize this thread was so long already
Totally am looking forward to reading it all
]

I think that I experienced something similar to the OP's experience.

My mom had just come to visit me for the first time since I moved away from home, over the 4th of July weekend. I woke up Sunday morning early, and I was taking her back to the airport. I don't do well with separating from loved ones, I get really depressed and sad.

Everything felt unreal, like everything was the same (sun was still really bright and hot even at 7 AM, just like it ought to be in July in Texas, though for some reason I took note of it) but somehow I was different? Or I was experiencing things differently? It was almost like a feeling of displacement, like I should be where I was, even though I knew I should.

I just chalked it up to feeling weird because my mom was leaving and it was so strange to have her here in Texas with me.

I happened across this thread and happened to look at the OP's posting date. It was the same day I took my mom to the airport. Very coincidental




[edit on 28-7-2008 by Itamirisse]



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Aron1138
 

Red pill?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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To Euclid and Harmonic Synchronicity:

Now, now, boys. Play nice. The title of the thread was relating to things being "different". The rest of the title was just a guess; ie: "change in the timeline?". It doesn't mean that the odd things we've all been experiencing are due to a change in the timeline. There could be some other explanation. I'll admit I'm hard-pressed to offer an alternative explanation but when one starts seriously discussing our timeline being (accidentally or purposely) altered so that we're experiencing a reality that does not coincide with our memories then any theory is as good as the next, I suppose.

Is there some way to alter memories other than chemically? Something airborne that could cause a shift in our perception of reality rather than an actual change in reality itself? I'm certainly not the brains on this thread/board but, it seems to me that, altering perceptions would be more "do-able" than altering time.

Any thoughts?



posted on Jul, 28 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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well considering the fact that the russians had biological weapons we never knew about 50 years ago, and the fact that given the unwritten laws allowing human experimentation yes. Remember the letter that the government sent out in the 50s? "Residents of Nevada we appreciate your cooperation in our nuclear testing as you all have been contaminated. We appreciate that you have submitted to this testing without argument or distaste." or something along those sadistic lines. Do this for me if you don't (or do) live in Nevada GoogleEarth groom lake now zoom out do you see those little hills? Those aren't hills they are craters there are hundreds of them! And look little dirt roads all along them and indentations where operations were set up. Your entire desert has been fully tested you should feel honored no? So the sign should actually read "you are now entering (radioactive) Nevada(don't forget your rad suit!
)"

Do we have biological weapons that we HAVE had for atleast 50 years, yes! Just like did the SR-71 come out in the mid 60's NO we had it since the mid 50s, and look it can almost breach the atmosphere and can surely go mach 4 but we don't want to cook our test pilots now do we? Because only army and navy guys get treated like sh-!

wow that was a rant so basically could our government do this, YES. Does our government play with big electromagnets, most likely. Could the LHC form a black hole, theoretically yes. What the F**k is wrong with our country, "*heh* *heh* I hadden't heard that yet."

Damn I didn't know I could still rant like that



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Ok, something weird has just happened to me, I went for my dinner, before I went I looked at the time on my PC and it said 18:36, had my dinner then came back onto the PC and was just browsing the forums,I got a text, read it then I looked at the time once i read the text and it was 17:20, which confused me, I was thinking eeh my PC clearly said 18:36

I then thought that maybe one of them is wrong, so i look at the clock on my PC and it was the same as what my phone said

[edit on 29-7-2008 by Byakuya]



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity
 


You can't predict anything. You're not adding anything to this thread. My research is complete in regards to this thread and I and my associates are satisfied with the resultant data. I'm done with you and your sophomoric and nihilistic insistence that objective reality does not exist. You need to wake up.

-Euclid



posted on Jul, 29 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by euclid

You can't predict anything. You're not adding anything to this thread. My research is complete in regards to this thread and I and my associates are satisfied with the resultant data. I'm done with you and your sophomoric and nihilistic insistence that objective reality does not exist. You need to wake up.

-Euclid


Why so abrasive?

I think he has provided the most interesting part of this thread, and I want to hear more.



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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wow, awesome thread! Ya know one thing I do remember when I was younger was WWF's Ultimate Warrior (Jim Hellwig) dying. I remember distinctly hearing about his death by heart attack or something similar. Then randomly a few years ago I find out he's alive and well and actually legally changed his name to Warrior. I had to do a double take on that one. Does anyone else remember that?



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Jezus
 


The only reason it's interesting to you is because you haven't read/watched/played enough sci-fi stuff to know that he is full of sh-. I mean seriously Elucid has been here since the first page of this thread and just so happens to be the expert in this field right now. He has experienced and researched these things where Harmonic is just some lazy ass slob who likes to watch the matrix and sliders! This is a serious thread get it through your skull we don't want to hear you ranting. "Woahoo i'm Neo I'm really Neo!" No your not Harmonic.

So, if you want to find a role playing forum there are plenty out there, and if you want to turn this into a book or a film by all means go ahead. Also there are plenty of MMORPGS to play and alot of role playing clans for video games. Maybe you could play D&D or play card games with elementary school kids. Frankly the fact that you experienced any of this is a load of bull # and we don't care. Have you ever elaborated on the matter? I mean "I just know and I saw it" is not specific we hear BS on this forum all the time and I think I can tell who is BSing.

To put it into terms that even a four year old could understand:

Elucid is talking about this:



You are talking about this:

Google Video Link

(if you are still confused notice they never move or adjust the body in any way it's downright fake)

So go write a book and leave us the hell alone.



[edit on 30-7-2008 by Aron1138]



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Aron1138
 


Aron, thanks for the support. Nice pic of the LHC. I really tried to be somewhat nice at first but it became patently apparent to me after a couple of posts that HormonSync's agenda is to derail a serious discussion.... that's why I have ignored him (I wish ATS would allow unlimited ignores - I had to remove another PITA to put HS on the list).

Let's all keep our wits about us and not get derailed by self-proclaimed guru's, mystics, provacateurs, and those who have ulterior motives.

Oh and just for the record (this part is completely off topic).... I don't even know what sliders is/are... I assume it is a movie or television show. I haven't watched TV in a number of years, I listen to talk radio sometimes, I watch some old movies from my DVD collection once in a while and of course I play XBOX360 (I'm not very good at it though it is fun). I get my news directly from the media sources: stratfor.com, newscorp, AP, Reuters, etc. I'm an old man..... and spend most of my time reading and researching strange phenomena first hand with field investigations with my team. My background is in Philosophy (higher level degree) and computer science (mid-level degree). It's just an FYI; nothing more.

Best Regards,

-Euclid



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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Here's something interesting:


....several major and minor fluctuations in sidereal time have occurred over certain periods throughout the years 1989 to 2000. For instance, a significant deviation from mean sidereal time occurred in the spring of 1989, when Sirius A, Sirius B and the sun were in direct conjunction and earth was still in the perihelion section of its orbit (see also diagram Solar system - Sirius system). Interesting is the fact that also a major time deviation from the negative into the positive range occurred during this conjunction at the end of February 1989. Furthermore, seemingly 'regular' fluctuations appear around March of each year. Also, at the end of 1989 towards the beginning of 1990, as earth went through its perihelion, significant positive deviations were observed. In the following years, around the same period, only positive deviations occurred, although diminishing in magnitude.


Source

Gravity is always affecting the flow of time as it should in the General Theory (Einstein).... buttressing this (and other data) with the MWI and the strong gravitational field of the galactic-plane could easily account for quantum world-line deviations occurring that would manifest at the macro-level to us a world-line collapse.

I'm still searching for more info and will post more when I have it. The data at these links is still new to me so I am still analyzing it's import and may fully integrate it into the current data we have.

-Euclid



posted on Jul, 30 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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Should we start talking about historic events now? Perhaps watch for shifts in our subjective realities? What if I told you that just by discussing a variety of things with me, I could guarantee that you will experience the exact types of "time stream collapses" that you believe are occurring. I may even be able to predict some of the contents of what you will experience as that collapse occurs.

Dare to continue?


Please do.
I would love to hear more from you - specifically, the predictions.








[edit on 30-7-2008 by AdAstra]



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by euclid
reply to post by Aron1138
 


Aron, thanks for the support. Nice pic of the LHC. I really tried to be somewhat nice at first but it became patently apparent to me after a couple of posts that HormonSync's agenda is to derail a serious discussion.... that's why I have ignored him (I wish ATS would allow unlimited ignores - I had to remove another PITA to put HS on the list).

Translation: Aron, thanks for telling Harmonic off and putting your faith in me. Nice pic of the LHC. I really tried to sort-of, maybe, think about pretending to see other points of view, but it became very obvious to me that I wasn't going to get Harmonic to drop whatever it was that he was thinking and bow before my wisdom. We can't have this conversation going in any other direction besides what I believe, so I had to put him on my ignore list."


Let's all keep our wits about us and not get derailed by self-proclaimed guru's, mystics, provacateurs, and those who have ulterior motives.

Translation: "Let's all keep our blindfolds on and not get distracted by other points of view. Remember, I am the guru, my mystic knowledge is the strongest and anyone who disagrees must be a provacateur with ulterior motives."


Oh and just for the record (this part is completely off topic).... I don't even know what sliders is/are... I assume it is a movie or television show. I haven't watched TV in a number of years, I listen to talk radio sometimes, I watch some old movies from my DVD collection once in a while and of course I play XBOX360 (I'm not very good at it though it is fun). I get my news directly from the media sources: stratfor.com, newscorp, AP, Reuters, etc. I'm an old man..... and spend most of my time reading and researching strange phenomena first hand with field investigations with my team. My background is in Philosophy (higher level degree) and computer science (mid-level degree). It's just an FYI; nothing more.

Translation: "Oh, and just for the record (this part is completely off topic, but I need to make sure that none of you think I ever watch sliders, because it is much too similar to what I am talking about on this thread for comfort).... I, uhmm, I ahhh, don't even know what sliders is/are (because if it isn't a TV show then maybe it's something that needs an "are" and I'm sure that you can see that I wouldn't put is/are if I really knew it was a TV show)... I assume it is a movie or television show (so I could have left it 'is'). I am an old man that does a bit of XBOX360, but I haven't watched TV for years, and if I did watch TV, I definitely wouldn't ever watch Sliders. And I have a team that helps me investigate strange phenomena when I'm not playing XBOX360, but remember, I NEVER WATCH SLIDERS. My background is Philosophy - and I have a higher level degree, not a pHd, because I would have said that, and not a Masters, because I would have said that too... Let's just say that I have a higher level degree of understanding of Philosophy than you and that thorny Harmonic guy... Oh, and I have a mid-level degree in Computer Science - not a Bachelors degree, because I would have said that too, let's just say I have a mid-level degree higher than you and that Harmonic guy in my understanding of computer science. But I don't have any degrees at all in Physics, which is why I can't tell you the reason that these time-stream collapses don't turn us all into jellyfish. Besides, there never was an episode like that on Sliders, not that I would know if there were or not, because I don't watch it/are/is/has/was/on."



Best Regards,

-Euclid


Excellent example of subjectivity at it's finest. ;-)



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by euclid
reply to post by HarmonicSynchronicity
 


You can't predict anything.

Without any discussion, whatsoever, you assert with great authority that I can make no predictions. That is very humbling, your honor.


You're not adding anything to this thread.

I have added text to this thread. As text is a subset of "anything", I'm sure you must be forced to agree that your statement is a tautologically false oxymoron. It is roughly the equivalent of me typing: "This text did not originate from me typing."


My research is complete in regards to this thread and I and my associates are satisfied with the resultant data.

Appeal to your own authority? Circular reasoning through the grammar of fallacy is difficult to perform. Impressive!


I'm done with you and your sophomoric and nihilistic insistence that objective reality does not exist. You need to wake up.

I don't need to insist that objective reality doesn't exist. Never, in the history of science or philosophy, has any man ever been able to provide a proof of objective reality. The very act of trying has driven men mad.

To simply assume that it does is a gross fallacy of assumption. You may as well just start at any conclusion you like, and assume it, to the same effect.

On the other hand, you can express what you consider to be objectively shared features of reality. There are many different subsets of humanity that you can choose, here, as well. You can choose modern statistical quantum physics as a common ground for what appears to be some objectively shared understanding of reality. You could also choose various occult societies that maintain some objectively shared understanding of reality. There are thousands of choices for "clubs" that you can belong to that can bring you that feeling of having a shared, somewhat objective, reality. You could even create your own and try to get others to agree with you so that you can claim to have your own "objective" reality. Like here.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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Originally posted by AdAstra


Should we start talking about historic events now? Perhaps watch for shifts in our subjective realities? What if I told you that just by discussing a variety of things with me, I could guarantee that you will experience the exact types of "time stream collapses" that you believe are occurring. I may even be able to predict some of the contents of what you will experience as that collapse occurs.

Dare to continue?


Please do.
I would love to hear more from you - specifically, the predictions.
[edit on 30-7-2008 by AdAstra]

The predictions that I had in mind were very specific to Euclid. I understand where he is at well enough to understand which parts of his reality are subject to change if I force him to stare at certain self-evidential truths (we'll use the term meme) long enough.

Making predictions about what will happen with others would require attempting to gather an understanding of their subjective reality in order to make predictions about how it would be forced to change in the presence of certain memes.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by HarmonicSynchronicity

The predictions that I had in mind were very specific to Euclid. I understand where he is at well enough to understand which parts of his reality are subject to change if I force him to stare at certain self-evidential truths (we'll use the term meme) long enough.

Making predictions about what will happen with others would require attempting to gather an understanding of their subjective reality in order to make predictions about how it would be forced to change in the presence of certain memes.


Yes, I gathered that much (about them being specific to your discussion with Euclid).
And I phrased it badly. Perhaps identifying the »fault lines« along which a reality, any reality, might »crack« would be a more viable request?

IF you think such generalities are even possible, of course.
(I don't spend much time on this site, and this is a very long thread, so I apologise if I missed or overlooked a vital piece of information.)



[edit on 31-7-2008 by AdAstra]



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by Psychopump

Originally posted by HarmonicSynchronicity
I once carried on a conversation with about 10 people while walking down the street. The thread of conversation for the counter-party in the conversation kept shifting from one random person to the next as I walked.


I have to concur with euclid.
We have seen THIS movie too. FALLEN.

"Tii-iiii-iiii-iiiiime, is on my side....yes it is!"

I am trying to remember the movie, "Fallen". I can't really remember it, but I probably have seen it. The first experience of this sort was about 4 years ago in the midst of a very radical "awakening" that I was undergoing. It scared me very badly, and I remember thinking an awful lot about the Agents in the Matrix movies while it was going on. I couldn't understand how it was possible, in the beginning.

I have come to expect a little bit of it, these days. It's generally much more subtle, but I often find people picking up on a thread or "theme" that has some significance to me in a coincidence defying dance as a generally pretty usual occurrence in my life now. I don't think too much about it anymore, I have just internalized that I am dealing with some supernatural phenomena and that is part of my reality and that's that.

Your belief is optional. I don't think the red pill is.



posted on Jul, 31 2008 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by shauny
 



It might just be paranoia. But I agree. I've felt for the past few years that something big should be happening any day now. But nothing is happening. hrmm.... and that feeling is still there.



This is exactly how I have been feeling.
And I know for a fact that I am not paranoic.


It is strange, isn't it?



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