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Aliens never visited Earth

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by Max_TO
 


Well said. That's why, in my previous post to this thread, I made a spoof post theorizing that the scientist in question doesn't exist, using what I perceive as some of his own criteria for making his claims. hmmmmm. Is that a paradox?




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by xmotex
He describes himself as a scientist, yet makes a positive claim he knows to be unverifiable.


Insofar as it applies to the "best of our knowledge*" it is verifiable**.


Originally posted by xmotex
It's already well within our technological capacity to launch probes (albeit very slow ones) to other solar systems, and we've only been doing this for a short while.


It is also within our capacity to launch very fast probes (comparatively), up to 80% of the speed of light. The technology has been around since the 1960s. See the Orion Project.


Originally posted by xmotex
In the face of this, it's kind of hard to take a guy making claims about the technological capacities of civilizations that may have been at this for millions of years , instead of our paltry thousands, as anything other than staggeringly naive, and extremely unscientific.


As we have no evidence of such civilizations existing, speculating what these theoretical*** civilizations can do is just as unscientific, perhaps even more so. There is no evidence to make predictions about the unobserved, in this case speculative alien civilizations. Once again, insofar as to "the best of our knowledge" he's right.

But even if these theoretical civilizations exist, the chances of them stumbling across us are very low. One grain of sand among the sand of all the beaches in the world analogy again. Even if they restricted their search to just stars like ours and to the Galactic Goldlocks Zone, there are still billions of stars. Then again, if they've been at it for millions of years, they would have refined their methods of search beyond anything we can currently imagine.****

Given the fact there are billions upon billions of stars, I would imagine that any aliens we come into contact with our going to be our galactic neighbors, from the same block, sort to speak.


Originally posted by xmotex
If anything, recent scientific evidence that planetary systems, including rocky volatile-rich worlds like our own, are the rule rather than the exception makes the case for a fairly crowded galaxy stronger, not weaker.


What evidence is that? We have only discovered four stars with terrestrial planets thus far. We don't know if such planets are the exception or the rule yet, there's not enough evidence. But as it becomes easier to detect such worlds, we may soon know (hopefully).

(*But, the "best of our knowledge" is a tricky thing. It leaves open the possibility that could change today or tomorrow or never. Things will change if we learn more. And hopefully, the good Dr. Kaiser will be proven wrong. The beauty of the Great Question is all you need to answer it is one piece of verifiable evidence.)

(**I will concede that here we may be talking semantics, it all depends on how you interpret the definition of "verifiable")

(***using theoretical in the strictly non-scientific sense)

(****But at that point, when does Clarke's Third Law come into play? How would we even recognize it for what it is?)



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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I found this ...

www.mufon.com...

... in this thread ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a bit of reading, but very well documented. Not only where there multiple eye witnesses but the object was also recorded and analyzed by a radar system.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 04:50 PM
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Well, if aliens never visited Earth, just how in the hell did we get here??

(I have to say now that I'm firmly in the 'rock carrying life crashed into Earth' thing).

Over 4.6 million years ago, this planet was a molten ball of rock. Life came from somewhere else. That means LIFE is out there.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
Well, if aliens never visited Earth, just how in the hell did we get here??

(I have to say now that I'm firmly in the 'rock carrying life crashed into Earth' thing).

Over 4.6 million years ago, this planet was a molten ball of rock. Life came from somewhere else. That means LIFE is out there.


Ummm....


The oldest recorded fossil we have dates back about 250 million years. The dinosaurs died off about 65 million years ago.

However, I would be interested in tossing around the idea that man was planted here. Or even that the most intelligent species on the planet was taken and genetically altered to become man. Perhaps the dinosaurs were killed off so we’d have less competition once we arrived. But I guess that’s a little off topic….not way off topic, just a little off topic.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by Promecus

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
Well, if aliens never visited Earth, just how in the hell did we get here??

(I have to say now that I'm firmly in the 'rock carrying life crashed into Earth' thing).

Over 4.6 million years ago, this planet was a molten ball of rock. Life came from somewhere else. That means LIFE is out there.


Umm....


I think he means 4.5 billion years.

Even so, it does not mean that life was seeded here from elsewhere. To accept such an idea, you would have to agree that life had to start from a primordial soup somewhere. Once again, we invoke the Mediocrity Principle: if it could happen elsewhere, there is no reason it could not happen here as well.


Originally posted by Promecus
Perhaps the dinosaurs were killed off so we’d have less competition once we arrived.


There were 60 million years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the rise of even the earliest forms of humans. That would be long-term planning of an unimaginable and impractical scale.



[edit on 11-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Promecus

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
Well, if aliens never visited Earth, just how in the hell did we get here??

(I have to say now that I'm firmly in the 'rock carrying life crashed into Earth' thing).

Over 4.6 million years ago, this planet was a molten ball of rock. Life came from somewhere else. That means LIFE is out there.


Umm....


I think he means 4.5 billion years.

Even so, it does not mean that life was seeded here from elsewhere. To accept such an idea, you would have to agree that life had to start from a primordial soup somewhere. Once again, we invoke the Mediocrity Principle: if it could happen elsewhere, there is no reason it could not happen here as well.


Originally posted by Promecus
Perhaps the dinosaurs were killed off so we’d have less competition once we arrived.


There were 60 million years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the rise of even the earliest forms of humans. That would be long-term planning of an unimaginable and impractical scale.



[edit on 11-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]


So what's your point? Have you ever bioformed a planet before?


At any rate. Back on topic...You're not going to side step this one, SaviorComplex. What did you think of that link?

Did you bother to even read it?

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Promecus]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
That would be long-term planning of an unimaginable and impractical scale.



Originally posted by Promecus
So what's your point? Have you ever bioformed a planet before?


My point, if I may quote myself:


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
That would be long-term planning of an unimaginable and impractical scale.


Our earliest ancestors were the size of a mouse and akin to a tree-shrew. It took some 60 million years before the earliest humans were on the scene (and Homo Sapiens have only been on the scene 250,000 years). That is long-term planning on an unimaginable scale, and very impractical. Impractical because why would anyone bioform a planet by wiping out the majority of life on the planet. Impractical there were plenty of species at the end of the Cretaceous that could have served their needs, without having to wait 60 million years.


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
At any rate. Back on topic...You're not going to side step this one, SaviorComplex. What did you think of that link?
Did you bother to even read it?


Which link? You have posted a few.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


You know which one.
www.mufon.com...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Our earliest ancestors were the size of a mouse and akin to a tree-shrew. It took some 60 million years before the earliest humans were on the scene (and Homo Sapiens have only been on the scene 250,000 years). That is long-term planning on an unimaginable scale, and very impractical. Impractical because why would anyone bioform a planet by wiping out the majority of life on the planet. Impractical there were plenty of species at the end of the Cretaceous that could have served their needs, without having to wait 60 million years.



Well, not to get too far off topic, perhaps they did not want an intelligent species of reptiles nor did they want us on the bottom of the food chain. Another thought, perhaps it takes about 60 million years to accomplish such a task. But I digress, this is just an idea to toss around.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Promecus
reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


You know which one.
www.mufon.com...


You arrogant, condescending child. How am I supposed to know which link you posted when you have posted several over the course of this discussion? Do not presume I am attempting to dodge a question, when you are the one not being clear.

Have you read all 77 pages? How do you explain it?

[edit on 14-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Promecus

Originally posted by mirageofdeceit
Well, if aliens never visited Earth, just how in the hell did we get here??

(I have to say now that I'm firmly in the 'rock carrying life crashed into Earth' thing).

Over 4.6 million years ago, this planet was a molten ball of rock. Life came from somewhere else. That means LIFE is out there.


Umm....


I think he means 4.5 billion years.

Even so, it does not mean that life was seeded here from elsewhere. To accept such an idea, you would have to agree that life had to start from a primordial soup somewhere. Once again, we invoke the Mediocrity Principle: if it could happen elsewhere, there is no reason it could not happen here as well.


Originally posted by Promecus
Perhaps the dinosaurs were killed off so we’d have less competition once we arrived.


There were 60 million years between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the rise of even the earliest forms of humans. That would be long-term planning of an unimaginable and impractical scale.



[edit on 11-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]


Yah no *reason* but if you actually look at the events which shaped a life bearing planet ie earth...you would be surprised how fast the numbers of possible ET life in the universe shrinks quite a bit...this is a *very* very* special planet...i still think there is life out there in our galaxy(not saying universe,because i would have to take into account branes if true etc...too much...but as for life visting us?...not a chance! well small chance,but really they haven't..but they are out there...intelligent or not i couldn't give a flying monkey shaped grapefruit...but no life hasn't visited us...black projects have though...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Promecus
reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


You know which one.
www.mufon.com...


You arrogant, condescending child. How am I supposed to know which link you posted when you have posted several over the course of this discussion? Do not presume I am attempting to dodge a question, when you are the one not being clear.

Have you read all 77 pages? How do you explain it?

[edit on 14-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]


Awww, did I hurt your feelings again?

Perhaps you should get yourself some prozac.

I don't believe that I need to explain it because it is some what spelled out in the document, however I'd say it was definitely some type of alien craft. Just based off sheer size and speed I doubt it's anything man made.

Now, stop side stepping the question.


Don't bite my finger, look at where I'm pointing



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Promecus

Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Promecus
reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


You know which one.
www.mufon.com...


You arrogant, condescending child. How am I supposed to know which link you posted when you have posted several over the course of this discussion? Do not presume I am attempting to dodge a question, when you are the one not being clear.

Have you read all 77 pages? How do you explain it?

[edit on 14-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]


Awww, did I hurt your feelings again?

Perhaps you should get yourself some prozac.

I don't believe that I need to explain it because it is some what spelled out in the document, however I'd say it was definitely some type of alien craft. Just based off sheer size and speed I doubt it's anything man made.

Now, stop side stepping the question.


Don't bite my finger, look at where I'm pointing


By alien im guessing you mean *something you have never seen before*...am i correct?...that doesnt mean its of ET origin....it just means its something you haven't seen before...all those craft pics yet no alien..hmmm...i guess the intergalactic evolving civilizations treaty is getting in the way



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by Lethil
By alien im guessing you mean *something you have never seen before*...am i correct?...that doesnt mean its of ET origin....it just means its something you haven't seen before...all those craft pics yet no alien..hmmm...i guess the intergalactic evolving civilizations treaty is getting in the way


Yes and no. When I said 'alien' I meant something that 1) I have never seen with my own eyes and 2) something that is ET.

Read the document before you say I'm wrong. The object is very large and traveled at speeds from between about 50mph and then up to 2100mph.

Not too many aircrafts that I know of can travel at those two speeds. Maybe one or the other (probably less than 2100mph...but I'm no expert in that field), but not both.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:15 PM
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I almost forgot about the Phoenix Lights. An object that appeared to be several miles wide drifted over AZ. Pretty much an entire population witnessed the event. Again, it is doubtful that this object was man-made.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Yes, the universe is big. Really enormously big.

But bigness doesn't really factor into the argument that much. How big the universe is doesn't necessarily increase the odds of there being any other life it in, because we don't know how life forms to begin with. It could be just an amazing fluke, that never happened anywhere or anytime but here.

On the other hand, how big the universe is also doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible to get around in it faster than we know how. There could be all kinds of simple and natural ways to get from one end of the universe to the other instantaneously, through different dimensions or bubble universes or whatever, that we just haven't figured out yet.

But all of that is just speculation. The bottom line is that IF there are aliens out there (and there's no proof that there are), there's no conclusive, incontrovertible evidence to indicate they've every paid Earth a visit. None.

If they exist/existed, could aliens have visited Earth? Sure. If they existed, did they visit Earth? Don't know.

I once visited Winslow, Arizona, and left no trace, and that was only a few years ago. There are clear differences between possibilities, probabilities, and something that actually happened.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by Promecus
Read the document before you say I'm wrong. The object is very large and traveled at speeds from between about 50mph and then up to 2100mph.


Even if you're right about the estimated speed of the "craft," you still can't reasonably, logically say that "aliens" are involved unless you have positive proof that there is life somewhere other than Earth.

I always like to bring up the notion of human time travelers. Who knows what we'll be able to accomplish technologically in the next 10,000 years? So rather than aliens, we're talking about humans. The thing that makes this even more reasonable than aliens is that we already know we exist, so that automatically gives it more plausibility.

So which is it? Aliens or time travelers? Can you give me something positive to tip the scale one way or the other? Because unless you can, both the alien notion and time traveler notions are beaten by "I don't know." "Unknown" is the trump card.

It's a hard one to live with though, because people like things explained. But if you can get comfortable with the idea that we just don't know what these things are, it opens up your mind to some interesting alternate possibilities beyond the boring "aliens from space" idea.



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by Promecus
Read the document before you say I'm wrong. The object is very large and traveled at speeds from between about 50mph and then up to 2100mph.


Even if you're right about the estimated speed of the "craft," you still can't reasonably, logically say that "aliens" are involved unless you have positive proof that there is life somewhere other than Earth.

I always like to bring up the notion of human time travelers. Who knows what we'll be able to accomplish technologically in the next 10,000 years? So rather than aliens, we're talking about humans. The thing that makes this even more reasonable than aliens is that we already know we exist, so that automatically gives it more plausibility.

So which is it? Aliens or time travelers? Can you give me something positive to tip the scale one way or the other? Because unless you can, both the alien notion and time traveler notions are beaten by "I don't know." "Unknown" is the trump card.

It's a hard one to live with though, because people like things explained. But if you can get comfortable with the idea that we just don't know what these things are, it opens up your mind to some interesting alternate possibilities beyond the boring "aliens from space" idea.


Its not time traavellers,i am 99% certain atleast,because if it was timetravellers,that would mean there would be millions upon millions of time travellers visiting...so either a) time travel isnt as possible as we think or
b) time travel is possible but humans dont last long enough as a civilization to use it for the public etc....



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 04:35 AM
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reply to post by Lethil
 


For once I'll agree with someone whom often disagrees with me. It's not likely that this was a time traveler simply for the fact that a human time traveler would be smart enough to not get caught like that. After all, they know history.

After some thought, I've come to a few logical conclusions about what that document had to say.

1) It was not any type of US military aircraft. If you examine the facts, you'll see that our military did indeed detect the UFO. However, they also took a substantial amount of time trying to ....
1a) Sneak up on the aircraft and...
1b) Gather as much recon about the aircraft as possible before going in.
They took several hours to even react (according to the doc) and then tried to sneak up on it, under the radar, at high speed. I could have told them that wouldn't work...but perhaps it wasn't the UFO's detection they were trying to avoid.

2) I am no expert in the latest military equipment, but what type of craft can travel at 2100mph AND hover at 0 mph? The fastest aircraft we've created (besides the shuttle craft with it's rocket boosters attached) can go 2,193 mpg(1). But can it also hover at 0 mph?

So, from studying this document I can conclude that the craft was most likely not man made. If we didn't make it and if time travelers are also out the question, then it could only be extraterrestrial.

The evidence is starting to pile up, people. Again I state...
Don't bite my finger, look at where I'm pointing.

And before you start flaming...please read the document. You'll see that it holds a significant amount of scientific research into the event that happen on Jan 8th.




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