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Gen. Petraeus and the Blue Note

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posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:54 AM
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I remember listening to the testimony delivered by Gen. Petraeus regarding the progress of the "surge" in American troop strength in Iraq.

Now, I am probably wrong about this, so forgive my impertinence.

There came a moment in the testimony when he said something to the effect that he had sworn an oath to defend the Constitution, and he was trying very hard to serve the civilian administration as this was the way it should be.

There is absolutely nothing that he said that I can put my finger on, but there was something about the way he said it that sounded somehow.... I don't know... different. As I put it in the title - it sounded like a blue note in an otherwise straightforward performance piece.

And this made me wonder. If a person in Petraeus' position, in any branch of service or in national security at any level, wanted the citizens of America to know that something was very wrong with the administration and its aims, how could they possibly tell us? If they wanted to do more to inform and protect the public, but knew that any action they took would result in their dismissal and subsequent powerlessness, what could they possibly do about it?




posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 05:13 AM
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Well, if you think reporting a measure of success in Iraq was wrong or was a lie, then I'd like to know upon which classified DOD information you're basing your position. Just basing it upon the man's inflection or on your personal feelings is not a valid criteria.

Was he under the gun to lie before Congress? I doubt it. How could he sneak the truth out to us? Well, that depends on your definition of "truth"... I suppose that Petraeus could loyally serve his country up until retirement, then join the Democrat Party and start badmouthing the United States. Just as Gen. Wesley Clark has done and continues to do.




[edit on 7/6/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Well, if you think reporting a measure of success in Iraq was wrong or was a lie, then I'd like to know upon which classified DOD information you're basing your position. Just basing it upon the man's inflection or on your personal feelings is not a valid criteria.

Was he under the gun to lie before Congress? I doubt it. How could he sneak the truth out to us? Well, that depends on your definition of "truth"... I suppose that Petraeus could loyally serve his country up until retirement, then join the Democrat Party and start badmouthing the United States. Just as Gen. Wesley Clark has done and continues to do.


I don't like you trying to put words in my mouth, chuckles. I didn't ask the questions you are asking, and I didn't imply the things you are denying.

So, kindly answer the question I posed or[snip]
Actually, I think maybe you just answered my question.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by applebiter]


Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 6-7-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.


Ex

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:01 AM
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and this is the kind of thread that has made
me not only stop visiting ATS as often as I used to.......
but has made me stop posting for months now.

If there is no respect for each other and a condescending
tone to your replys, as if your opinion IS the only opinion
I'll just go read the gooblegoop at Reuters or CNN.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Play nice kids. Being in the military means taking an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Also you swear to obey the order of the President and officers appointed over you. Now, if the enemy you perceive is the president, you pretty much are stuck. High level officers are dismissed in the blink of an eye for anything they do that is out of line from what is expected by their commanders.

While in uniform there isn't much they can do. After they retire most get phat jobs with defense contractors. Some end up publicly critical of current policies, but by then no one is really listening to them.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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I know this is a bit off topic but to hear any pro republican talk is really sickining, all i gotta say is Bohemian Grove and how it's made up of mostly republicans......Republicans = NWO.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by applebiter
 


Agreed, I also heard a few statement that appeared to be indications that Petraus was trying to 'send smoke signals'. He also did a great job of throwing the ultimatel responsiblity back on Congress as to what would happen next. 'Fragile situation' was on phrase which seemed to say- 'this place is a powder keg'
Acatually I was more infuriated with the so called Public Servants at the Big table who should be answering questions about their lack of leadership, oversight and action, instead of Petraus and Crooker.
There are Co conspirators on both sides of the Aisle. Not only Pelosi & Reid are accomplices in this. Just consider those who sit on the Armed Services Com (CON)- esp Levin & Clinton. If nothing else they are all guilty of Dereliciton of duty when it came to Oversight of the Use of Military Action( #'s, equipment, mission, exit plan, return care, Private mercenaries..).Check out th emembership of the Democrtic Leadership Council (DLC) and you'll see some names that have been appeasing this corrupt admin.
Congrress put on a Dog & Pony show- at the very least it should have been Rice & Gates sitting at that table- but more approriately Cheney Rummy & Wolfie sitting at a Defense table at their Trial for Treason, War crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
As a Life long Reg'ed Dem- I will be working to not only kicked out these covert operative camoflaged in Blue- but pushing for Convictions as Accomplices to these High Crimes.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Your hostility is baffling, to me. I don't know, maybe you see enemies and threats in every corner. If you aren't threatened by my post, then what prompted you to go on the attack? If the question isn't so complex, and the answer none too mysterious, then why even bother?

I think you have an answer for me after all. No one asked Petraeus whether or not he believed that he should buck the chain of command. No one asked him whether he was loyal to the Constitution. He, like you, addressed questions that weren't asked. I think this is why his response seemed odd. Yours, too.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by King Seesaw
I know this is a bit off topic but to hear any pro republican talk is really sickining, all i gotta say is Bohemian Grove and how it's made up of mostly republicans... Republicans = NWO.


You're a perfect example of the shallow-minded and easily-manipulated global villagers whose seething hatred is blind, ignorant and misdirected.

I'm not "pro-Republican" — I oppose the current government of the United States of America, which is neither Republican nor Democrat. As far as I'm concerned, both parties and their foaming disciples are comprised of detestable, worthless, lying, murdering pieces of shît who deserve the noose. The endless battle between these parties is nothing but a nonstop vaudeville routine, a circus for the distraction and entertainment of the gullible masses. Of which you're an obvious member.

This circus exists to provide you with the illusion of "choice," which hasn't existed in America since before FDR. As you slather from the mouth, cheering wildly or cursing your ineffectual political puppets, there are vast and dark mechanisms engaged to actually run the country with no need for your input whatsoever.

This is the actual Government of the USA, comprised of bankers and corporate boards of directors who one-sidedly dictate the true fate of America. Yes, they own George W. Bush, they own the Clintons, and they own Barack Obama, just as they own every member of our executive, legislative and court systems, as well.

Some have called it the "shadow government" for decades, but we have known of it from the very earliest days of this nation's existence:

"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country."Thomas Jefferson

"As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety than ever before, even in the midst of war."Abraham Lincoln

"Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day."Theodore Roosevelt

"For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor, other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness. Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government.Franklin D. Roosevelt

You can see a progression of urgency in these quotes from American presidents, culminating in our complete take-over during the FDR administration — that's when we witnessed the unprecedented creations of the United Nations, the Welfare State, and the Social Security Safety Net... All of which we recognize today as monumental mistakes, at best, or deliberate long-term attempts to undermine the United States, at worst.

So, while you were pîssing and moaning and hissing and booing the meaningless puppet show that we call Politics in America, an entirely separate entity sealed your fate and the fates of your children far, far into the future.





[edit on 7/6/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by applebiter
Your hostility is baffling, to me.


Yeah, right. I offered the first serious reply, and you came back with "piss off"... You need to realize and deal with your own hostility.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 

I also live in a two party country a few years ago a few here tried to start a third viable political force they were subjected to political,legal,media and financial attack to the point they folded.Their registrations,fee raising and charter were all micro analysed and taken through the courts.

Not just in the US but across the entire western world its a bull# dog and pony show designed to give you a choice between two bought and owned options and God help you if you try to start an alternative the video game will attack you from all angles,the media will either ignore you or demonise you.

All these hundreds of millions spent on advertising,rallies etc makes me sick one Mc Cain or Obama rally could put a roof over 1000 homeless peoples heads for a long time.

I agree democracy has become a sick joke.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
Not just in the US but across the entire western world its a bull# dog and pony show designed to give you a choice between two bought and owned options and God help you if you try to start an alternative... I agree democracy has become a sick joke.


Thanks, I knew there were a few enlightened souls out there.

As this pertains the OP question: If a person in Petraeus' position, in any branch of service or in national security at any level, wanted the citizens of America to know that something was very wrong with the administration and its aims, how could they possibly tell us, the direct answer is that if it's not scripted by our shadow government, then it's not going to happen, period.

The underlying flaw of the OP is that it presumes the American People can still influence our government, if someone in a very high position would just blow the whistle.

No, we can't influence our shadow government. Since all presidential administrations, and the Democrat and Republican Parties, and the Military-Industrial Complex, and the "free" news media are all owned and controlled by the same corporate entities (which are multinational in scope), then you're never going to hear or see anything that isn't scripted. Ever.

Even when these generals retire and "go public" (which is a laugh), they're still participating in the facade. It's like wrestlers "blowing the whistle" on professional wrestling... The whistle-blower is just as scripted and choreographed as the corruption that he's "exposing"... It's a distraction, it's entertainment, it's a joke.

Which is why you see these clowns like Gen. Wesley Clark (Ret) now wholeheartedly endorsing a candidate who has absolutely no military experience, no foreign policy experience, no executive experience at all, and less than 4 years experience in the U.S. Senate. It doesn't make sense from a leadership perspective, which is Clark's claim to fame, right? Unless, of course, Clark is simply still following orders, still following a script that supersedes his free will, and putting on a partisan show for the gullible masses.



[edit on 7/6/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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Then no need to disagree, i ment the same thing you were wrighting to me i thought you were one of those hard old liners republican this republican that, i'm sorry i'm at blame i jumped the gun, because we both agree, but ya gotta have faith man.....that at some point things will get better, i try and hold onto that, and you're right things do look bleak but like i said they gotta get better.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by King Seesar]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Ex
and this is the kind of thread that has made
me not only stop visiting ATS as often as I used to.......
but has made me stop posting for months now.

If there is no respect for each other and a condescending
tone to your replys, as if your opinion IS the only opinion
I'll just go read the gooblegoop at Reuters or CNN.


i agree, i have pretty much quit reading anything that has to do with politics..but i still like to read about technology and ufos



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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I suppose the moderators haven't noticed that this thread has been entirely hijacked. I got the answer I was seeking, indirectly, but the rest of this soup strains credulity. It is obvious in what it isn't.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by applebiter
I suppose the moderators haven't noticed that this thread has been entirely hijacked.


Bitey, if I hadn't "hijacked" this precious thread, you'd still be waiting for a reply. Anyway, too bad you didn't draw the audience you were hoping for. Better luck next time. Try UFOs.








posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


There is a possible interpretation of this conversation that makes you a friendly. I'm going to go with it and thank you for your time.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 

You are correct the media is owned by the same corporations that are the military industrial complex if Petreus had a grevience who would interview him, let alone air it and if they did air it immediately all the talking heads on Fox et al would then be creating a swarm of bees to cast dispersions on his integrity,military track record and mental state to such a point he would just be a blip at worse like the women Clinton abused he could end up totally marginalised or become a pariah.

There is not much such an individual could do.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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Stop the name calling, bickering and off topic posts.

Thank You



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