Is Harry Potter the worst Conspiracy of Witchery of the History?

Originally posted by The angel of light\

1) If J.K is a practicant Catholic , as some body dared to say, why she didnt think in Mystics, in the Christian Esoterism that is so rich in poetic images when she decided to start this saga, instead of the Witchery tradition of Great Britain? Where were her supposed solid Catholic values at the time of inspiration? When somebody claim that she is practicant of her faith what is this person taking about? pls explain more about it.

3) The life of Jesus is plenty of poweful facts, his miracles are the most impressive proof of comunion with God, he did things that nobody did before him in the History, and that includes his Resurecction, so is it really necessary to look for fantasy in other sources?

4) Why not to tell the wonders that were made by the Jesus being a Boy, there are gospels of the chidhood too, look in the minor Gospels, the sometimes named Apocryphes.

5) There is no more esoteric and fantastic book that Revelation, also named Apocalypsis, and no higher Mystic than St John, the beloved apostle, that by the way, he was just an adolescent when Jesus died and resurrected.

Here's the problem I find in these arguments: These could be used against just about every fantasy/sci-fi story written by a Christian author. From A Midsummer Night's Dream to Alice in Wonderland to Gulliver's Travels; using these arguments none of these should have been written.

In fact, off the top of my head just about the only classic books that would conform to these rules would be The Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost(perhaps not that one, though, considering a main character is Satan...).


In the end, I just think that people over-react to this subject WAY too much. Harry Potter was a BRILLIANT series of books to the end(Ah, that last book... in the words of the Doctor: "Oh I cried"), that showed kids books aren't just used to make them write essays and hopefully got them reading on their own, for FUN(something I think the current school system is totally screwing up, leaving generation after generation with a poor taste for books because "they're for essays").

I say just be thankful it's got kids reading.



[edit on 6-7-2008 by Core90]

Speaking as a Wiccan who converted to Wicca in the late 1960's, Rowling's books aren't going to convert anyone to anything any more than Andre Norton's "Witch World" series of young adult fantasy novels converted kids to witches. In fact, studying them reveals just how little Rowling knows about magic -- or magick, for that matter.

The "magic" in the books is basically a riff of every other book on magic-wielding people... and on D&D as well. Cartoons portray this kind of magic, including cartoons about Aladdin and other fantasy characters.

What isn't converting kids is tales of witchcraft. What's converting them is the growing dissatisfaction of the directions Christianity and the church (all churches, including Protestants) are taking.

Well, at least he got the "circle" bit right.

I have one question;

So what?

The powers that be in christianity need to recognise this "Witchery" as an ally, not as an enemy - as after all, They both find their roots strongly in western history (infact, moreso the "witchery" side of things) and both of them have, at some point or other, been victim to persecution on behalf of islam.


I don't see this "witchery" as perversion of any form (bar the blacker side of it) but instead as a way of becoming closer to God (My god is your god, i just don't think he wants everyone to follow the bible).

So, i'll ask my question again;

So What?

reply to post by Byrd

What isn't converting kids is tales of witchcraft. What's converting them is the growing dissatisfaction of the directions Christianity and the church (all churches, including Protestants) are taking.

Well that is something so relative, I think behind Harry Potter Phenomenon we have the powerful suggestion of Cinematography as Art, it is clear that we are affronting the magic of Movies overall other considerations.

To create Films is a tremendous responsibility ,specially when the public are children, since the suggestibility of them is so big, they catch all this information in a very different way than an adult, for children is more difficult to realize where ends the fantasy and where begins the reality,specially when there is a great mercadotecnia offering them a lot of Witchery and Magic Products too in the book stores.

There are many psicological studies about the impact of Movies in the modern life, and how risky and dangerous is for the social and moral order to tolerate the indiscriminate use of Violence, Sex, Drugs among other things like Satanic rites or Black Magic in Movies, let me repeat specially for the ones directed to the youths.

I have No doubt that, of course, by other side there is a literary talent involved in all this issue, a kind of gift too, to tell stories in a very attractive way but also there is a carefully study of the childish psicology by the author, she must spent a lot of time investigating in that subject more than even in Witchery.

So, the only clear possitive consequence that I see of the Pottermania is that this is a tremendous challange for the trully Christian authors of Children Literature to create something that be able of neutralize or surpass the success of the Witchery literature for kids.

I think Cronicles of Narnia or Lord of Rings could be that alter ego or why not that Nemesis that will stop the advance of Potter books, it is easier to see the way in which both those stories could navigate to the correct direction and provide a more ethical approach from the Christian point of view.

But to see that Harry Potter could derive in a Christian Tale is really difficult, only a miracle of the imagination of Joanne Rowling can inspire her the way to concile the world of Witchery with the one of Christian faith, probably a genuine act of repentance by Harry Potter and his friends and a decission to use their power through the mystical way can be that Miracle, something like the story of The Name of the Rose for instance, based on the famous Novel of Humberto Eco, What do you think about this????


Thanks for your atention,

The Angel of lightness



[edit on 7/7/2008 by The angel of light]

Magic and the mysteries have been studied and practiced for thousands of years before Christianity began. A popular book series that gets kids to read is not going to convert them into young witches and warlocks. I do know many teenagers rebel against what religion they were brought up against (turning mainly to atheism), but it is a part of growing up. My sister was brought up Catholic and never really got involved until a few years ago. Now she is a devout Catholic (along with my Mother), and I am very proud of her. I am a Pagan, and although I know she disaproves of it, she has never tried to force me to come back to the Church.

The Harry Potter books are harmless, and in fact probably encouraged millions of children to pick up a book and actually read rather than play a video game. If that constitutes some kind of evil, than I'm all for it.

I've read them all, and my only regret is JK won't be writing anymore in the series.

Oh come on!

The notion that Harry Potter stories are detrimental to the spiritual wellbeing of the planet is absurd. So what if it's got witches, wizards and monsters in it, kids love reading this kind of thing. I'm sorry, but it brings to mind people like this:

A very silly man.

While I think that the Potter books are poorly written money making machines, at least it means that children are reading..... perhaps once they finish Rowlings drivel they will pick up Philip Pullman's much better Northern Lights Trilogy (you even get at least one dead angel!).

reply to post by LLoyd45

The Harry Potter books are harmless, and in fact probably encouraged millions of children to pick up a book and actually read rather than play a video game

Well you have touched a good point although I think in the wrong way. In my opinion it is clear that in an era of so poor reading skills thanks to the excesive use of electronic media it is possible to understand the occurence of a pheonomenon like Harry Potter.

The daily use of the information technology in a way in which does not really motivate research but just entertainment or even something worst the abundance of plagiarism that start in the school, when many students solve their homeworks by the popular technique of cut and paste, is causing a visible decreasing in many intellectual skills in our youths.

So thanks to this technological height plus the uncontroled consuming mentality that is using it, we can say that this is the ideal time to emerge in literature some propositions like Harry Potter as incredible literary booms.

Additionaly we have now new genres of Addictions in the young people as the ciber addiction and the electronic gambling addiction that you mention, an this is so real, there are thousands of man-hours lost every day in the life of guys that are only escaping of their reality through this way.

A so satured Visual environment, like one created by the Virtual Reality and the Internet is creating empty spaces in the culture that this type of literature is trying to fill.

The reduction in the indexes of reading is worrying since there are important mental processes associated with it, like abstraction or imagination stimulated by the evocation power of the word.

However, there is something more important, this type of literature is not really solving the problem since instead to promote creative imagination useful to solve problems is wasting that capacity promoting the easy way in life, just to escape to an imaginary world, so its entire focus is addictive too.

An adolescent that is used to read only books like Harry Potter rarely will be able to go ahead in more serious readings in his future and well to be sincere is the best candidate to be a fan of the Davinci Code in his adult life, so there is no growing of better readers but of a very mediocre ones.

Again I repeat my thesis that the success of Harry Potter obey more to a period of crisis in the west civilization values produced by the chaos produced by the many economical and tecnological changes of the end of XX Century without a clear direction, more than to an actual improving in the Children's Literature.

thanks for your participation in the thread,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness




[edit on 7/7/2008 by The angel of light]

Originally posted by The angel of light
Well that is something so relative, I think behind Harry Potter Phenomenon we have the powerful suggestion of Cinematography as Art, it is clear that we are affronting the magic of Movies overall other considerations.

But the people we see at gatherings and the kids interested in it are NOT approaching us because of Harry Potter or any one particular book or film. They're perfectly aware that you can't wave wands and shout something and have "magic happening."

It's something else that they're seeking.

There are many psicological studies about the impact of Movies in the modern life, and how risky and dangerous is for the social and moral order to tolerate the indiscriminate use of Violence, Sex, Drugs among other things like Satanic rites or Black Magic in Movies, let me repeat specially for the ones directed to the youths.

Agreed -- but I have yet to see a movie with a real Satanic rite in or anything but fairytale witchcraft.

I have No doubt that, of course, by other side there is a literary talent involved in all this issue, a kind of gift too, to tell stories in a very attractive way but also there is a carefully study of the childish psicology by the author, she must spent a lot of time investigating in that subject more than even in Witchery.

She's a mom. Speaking as a mom, you get lots of insight on kid psychology. Every single mom (including Christian moms) have the same kinds of insights.

So, the only clear possitive consequence that I see of the Pottermania is that this is a tremendous challange for the trully Christian authors of Children Literature to create something that be able of neutralize or surpass the success of the Witchery literature for kids.

"Neutralize"? Uhm... you're talking about suppressing my religion, aren't you? I don't think I want mine suppressed, thanks -- I pose no threat to any Christian (my son, daughter-in-law, and grandchild are all Christians and we love each other dearly and get along fabulously.) But I believe I have as much a right to my beliefs and practices as Aboriginal people have to keep their own rights and practices.

I think Cronicles of Narnia or Lord of Rings could be that alter ego or why not that Nemesis that will stop the advance of Potter books, it is easier to see the way in which both those stories could navigate to the correct direction and provide a more ethical approach from the Christian point of view.

I was wondering if you read Narnia... lovely books. But LOTR isn't Christian, you know. And as for ethics, the ethics in the Potter books (loyalty to friends, coming to the defense of the defenseless, honoring your teachers, respecting parents/pseudoparents even if they're horrible jerks, bringing justice where injustice was done) -- as I recall, those are all ethics practiced by Christians.

At least, I assume they are. I know they fall under the general code of Wicca and the "Law of Three" (that which you do to others comes back to you threefold.)

But to see that Harry Potter could derive in a Christian Tale is really difficult, only a miracle of the imagination of Joanne Rowling can inspire her the way to concile the world of Witchery with the one of Christian faith, probably a genuine act of repentance by Harry Potter and his friends and a decission to use their power through the mystical way can be that Miracle, something like the story of The Name of the Rose for instance, based on the famous Novel of Humberto Eco, What do you think about this????

There's nothing un-Christian about Harry. There's no statement about what deity (if any) the magical folk worship.

As to "Name of the Rose" -- did we read the same book? The practices of the Christians in that book included greed, conspiracy, murder, ill-treatment of those they had power over, enforced class systems that kept 90% of the people in poverty, religion that allows no thought contrary to it (so no science and no medicine)?

The movie probably whitewashed it (or you may not be as familar with the subtexts), but I really don't think I'd care to come under the "mentorship" of the Christians in that book. You probably wouldn't, either. We'd both probably like Dumbledore (who was kind and understanding) a LOT better!

Originally posted by The angel of light
reply to post by LLoyd45

 

An adolescent that is used to read only books like Harry Potter rarely will be able to go ahead in more serious readings in his future and well to be sincere is the best candidate to be a fan of the Davinci Code in his adult life, so there is no growing of better readers but of a very mediocre ones.

I just had to address this one, because I came across a piece of research on who's likely to read what books. Harry Potter readers are more likely to come from the science fiction/fantasy reading crowd. This population includes a large number of space buffs, history buffs, and they love reading. My whole family loved HP, and we're a bunch of geeks with a huge collection of books -- everything from classic Roman literature (with the occasional Latin text) to Biology/anatomy/archaeology/math (we have tons of math books)/history... and classic literatue. The list is endless.

I bet if you asked Bible readers what they had around their house, you'd find their libraries are much smaller than those of folks who read science fiction. And if you counted the number of technical (electronics, robotics, astronomy, geology, etc) books in the Bible-readers' households it's going to be much smaller than in other households.

You could ask folks here.

Originally posted by Byrd
I bet if you asked Bible readers what they had around their house, you'd find their libraries are much smaller than those of folks who read science fiction. And if you counted the number of technical (electronics, robotics, astronomy, geology, etc) books in the Bible-readers' households it's going to be much smaller than in other households.

You could ask folks here.

Well not necessarily. A surprising amount of people at the church I once attended were English teachers or people who read pounds and pounds of books per week. But most of them were in the computer field and their houses had shelves of science fiction and sc-classics like the Hitchhiker's Guide. I just wish that they'd apply their critical reasoning to their religion too.

First of all, and this isn't a jab, who actually uses the word witchery? Seems rather archaic by itself.

Anyhow, the witchcraft end of Harry Potter is complete and utter nonsense. It is not real witchcraft, and kids these days, realize that what they are reading/seeing in regards to the fantasy witchcraft know that it isn't real. Yes today's children are dumbed down and not as educated as they used to be.... I realize this, but a good portion of them a firm understanding of what is real and what is imaginary. To think otherwise is really insulting to the children of the world. Whether education has failed them or not doesn't mean that children are that incredibly stupid as a matter of course. Seeing real violence, sex, and evil every day and on television/news is more likely to warp a child's understanding of how the world should and does work than a bloody Harry Potter book. To think otherwise is daft.

Also, if you were to remove the witchcraft and wizardry elements of the Harry Potter books you would be left with nothing but....drum roll please.... Christian values, themes, and elements. Some examples of this being:

The struggle of good versus evil.

How to stand up for your moral beliefs in the face of adversity.

Teamwork.

Love.

Friendship.

Trust.

Kindness.

&

Protecting those who cannot help themselves.

There are many more examples than that, and anyone that actually thinks about the books would easily see that a large number of the characters contained within the pages are nothing more than Christian archetypes.

In the end though, it's just a good series of books for kids to read.... and yes it's good to have children actually reading.

Superman is one of the most well known and popular fictional figures in our society today. He stands for truth, justice, the American way, love, understanding, courage, and virtue. If it was suddenly written in that a portion of his powers came from a magical source, the same people that bash the Harry Potter books would probably jump on the we hate Superman bandwagon. It really is a shame, and such ignorant hatred of someone actually using their imagination to entertain others should not be tolerated in any modern society.

reply to post by Osiris1953

Anyhow, the witchcraft end of Harry Potter is complete and utter nonsense. It is not real witchcraft, and kids these days, realize that what they are reading/seeing in regards to the fantasy witchcraft know that it isn't real.

Osiris1953:

Looking how boosted are the sales of any kind of witchery products in the shops from the ones that result completly inofensive as only games or astrological charts to the ones that are strongly involved in spiritism, like the Ouijas that now are available in almost any place, or the Magic Books that teach openly how to do sorcery applied to practically any situation of the common life, I would not be so sure that this is something that the adolescents are not taking a little more serious that you claim.

I suggest you to walk carefully in any big book store of America in our days to confirm that the section of Witchery is bigger than even the section of Quantic phycics or bio-statistics in many of them.

No time before that the era of this films of Harry Pottter register in the west more increasing of new religious groups arround witchery and in particular wicca, now it so common to see so young people claimed to be darks and using the most extravangant fashion to show that to the rest of the society, so this is indeed causing social impact in the world.

I am not saying that anything that smells to wicca is bad necessarily, since it looks that even that religion has a light side, but Harry Potter personages use methods to solve situations that are even contrary to those possitive principles, for instance when they use magic to cause damage to the adversary.

Supposely one essential principle of Wicca is The Rule of Three (also threefold law or law of return). Claiming that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times. This is their version of the Golden Rule that appears in the Gospel in Matthew 7:12 :

St Matthew 7:12 (New American Standard Bible)
12"In everything, (A)therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for (B)this is the Law and the Prophets.

So I am even so dibious that Harry Potter is actually a good exponent of Wiccan beliefs, he is visible more influenced by the black magic than by any other one, and that is terrible since we are dealing with probably the most powerful, thanks to its suggestive attraction to the young people, negative influence of the Childish literature of the History.

By the way Witchery cults is since ancient times so related with the consumption of alucinogenic substances so no body knows where this is going to stop and how dangerous can be for the youth in general.

Thanks for your participation in the thread,

Your friend,

The Angel of lightness




[edit on 7/13/2008 by The angel of light]

Originally posted by The angel of light

I am a Christian psychic that has the gifts of telepaty, Clairvoyance and extrasensorial perception with respect to present and future events. In my case this a natural thing, I didnt do anytype of special study to acquire this skills, is just something that I had since born but I know is geneticaly transmited to me .

Well, since the first moment It was not very difficult to me to realize that these Novels were francly taking about not Mysticism, not white magic, not about paranormal powers from a Scientific point of view but about Witchery in the most primitive and pure way that the subject can be treated. This is something that caught my atention since I was wondering what type of social effect can this produce in the so Young people that does not have all the correct information at hand to affront this sublimilal sugestion in favor of the dark magic arts.

Who is behind this Plot? Is the new Global merchantilism of our epoch trying to sell dangerous things to the young people to get money at any cost?

Interesting thread to be sure.

It appears that your opinion is that Harry Potter is something that can help open up kids to 'dark magic'.

The irony in this post is that you claim to be a Christian, and the fact is that most evangelicals would not consider you a true Christian.
Those closest to being open would be the Charismatics, but you say the word Clairvoyance and now a demon is behind your gift.

Again, Im only pointing out the irony in this whole bit.

Perhaps words and labels no longer suit their purposes, we have made 'idols' out of them, believing that we know what they mean when we say something...words are merely pointers, and when one does not realize this, they become a tool for division.

So everyone thinks the other is evil - even within Christianity there are great divides, as I have pointed out many a times - the basic tenants on who gets saved is not agreed on.

- saved and always saved (southern baptist)
- loose your salvation at the alter and turn around and pick it up again...wait, I lost it again. (Pentacostals)
- and the best...predestination (does not matter what you do) - I tend to agree with this one and the first...but again, you have to look to where its pointing and not make a religion out of written text.

So, in saying all of that - no I dont believe there is a dark plot - if I were to look at the bigger picture as described.

What I may do is try to see what the common ground is to get past some of the words which have become so misunderstood because its not a term familiar to our linguistic milieu.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by The angel of light
By the way Witchery cults is since ancient times so related with the consumption of alucinogenic substances so no body knows where this is going to stop and how dangerous can be for the youth in general.

Life is dangerous - we are here to learn.

That which gives life can also take it.

Point is that there is still much research it appears to be done to connect the dots to see where all this is leading. If Im not mistaken, God is not divided - so all of the dots do connect together. "Even in Sheol I am there".

For the most part, we do not have adults who have matured - we have, as Paul put it, a bunch of babes walking around. So if there is a danger to our youth its not receiving proper education from their elders. - but how can they when their elders were so steeped in fear?

"Fear not" (seems like a commandment, not a request.)
"Seek with ALL your heart" (not in the confines of ones fears and dogmas)

So that which we fear and think is not safe - that is for a reason.
We would be harmed by it as we are not ready for whatever it is. (be it info, or whatever.)

Laws are here to guide us and protect us from ourselves for the most part.
Jesus did away with the law. It goes beyond what one would think is being said here - and no, its not about chaotic anarchy.

Remember, words are pointers... have fun.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by Byrd
I bet if you asked Bible readers what they had around their house, you'd find their libraries are much smaller than those of folks who read science fiction. And if you counted the number of technical (electronics, robotics, astronomy, geology, etc) books in the Bible-readers' households it's going to be much smaller than in other households.

You could ask folks here.

Could be the case in general.
But not here.

Peace

dAlen

p.s. - I do want to note, I agree with where you are coming from...the insight seems pretty accurate. Albeit, I think they tend to extend it a bit into areas they are interested in to connect the dots. - but there is a guide that it must adhere to with their philosophy.

So in that end, the ability to expand their thoughts would appear somewhat limited, at least when grouped with emotions such as fear.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by dAlen


Well dAlen,

if there are christians that does not believe in me as a Trully messenger of God, that is not my problem is theirs.

I have done a lot of signals of my comunion with God since more than a year ago and it was here in BTS in threads that are open to the rigurous analysis of any one that wants to check carefully them.

Unfortunately the so called Christianism in America, since they are actually only Protestants that claim to be the only trully Christians, are so related with the conspiracy that has created all this order of things that has this nation sumerged on preventive wars that are now a national bad dream and the damaging of the national economy that is pushing us to th e border of an abysm that I am advicing clearly is waiting for nation if these false followers of Christ continue leading the nation.

I am not saying that all the evangelists are sinners or bad people, many of them are being object of manipulation of corrupt leaders, like johh Hagee, responsibles of the false theology of a Christian state for the preventive wars against other religions & the materialistic globalization that wants a world in knees adoring the great Capitalism, but I am sure many have independent criteria and probably are going to receive my message on time, and understand it, to prevent more issues in their future.

Well, that is the problem with this so materialistic generation, they receive the message but they hate the messenger instead to thanks him, that has been almost the same history with all the prophets: Jeremiah, Elijah, Moses, all were rejected by their people as Christ said: There is no prophet in his land.

If I would openly give support to them and help them to request the monetary contributions they are earning from the people probably my message would be accepted and even they would be saying that I am a Saint, but I will not do that, I am a messenger of God and my job is directly with him.

I am wondering what are these spiritual leaders going to do when the rest of my predictions be facts? what are they going to say to the American people whan the situation become worst than now if there is no a drastic change in the collective mentality that is now in America??

Are they going to make guilty God? to blame him when I was all the time predicting this openly? My time is this one but not for long, there are other missions that God have for me and will need attend them too, when that occur America will not have more time to repent & correct its destination.

If that national cathastrophe occur be sure that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln will rise in their tombs to point those false leaders as the ones that carried all that disgrace to the nation.

thanks for your atention,

The Angel of lightness

By the way for any body that wants to confirm my accuracy in predictions here is a short list of some of my accomplished prophecies:

Please Compare the dates of the post with the actual day of the occurence of the fact.

1)Prediction of Earthquake in Guerrero Mexico 2007:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now the facts:
jclahr.com...
srl.geoscienceworld.org...

2)Prediction of a Giant Tsunami devastating Japan & many other islands in the Pacific
Posted on: Sunday 11 March 2007 @ 08:34:53
www.prophecies.us...
(pls scroll down the page using the arrows of the vertical bar that appear to your right)
Now the facts:
www.acehtsunami.com...
www.reliefweb.int...

3) Prediction of an Earthquake with epicenter in the Caribean, Martinica, affecting also Venezuela 2007:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now the facts:
americasvolcanoes.info...
news.bbc.co.uk...

4) Prediction of Earthquake in Central America, Guatemala 2007:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now the Facts:
earthquake.usgs.gov...

5) Prediction of an Earthquake in Northern Andes, Equator & Peru 2007:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now the facts:
earthquake.usgs.gov...
www.msnbc.msn.com...

6) Prediction : Nor Hylary Clinton Nor Rudoph Giulani will be next president, but an almost unknown new Poltical figure, & Obama decissive: posts of Dec 1st and Dec 13th 2007:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
The Facts are available today in any News on the Web.

7) Prediction that President Chavez of Venezuela was n ot going to win referendum of Dec 2007, given on :
Posted on: Tuesday 11 December 2007 @ 06:29:36
www.prophecies.us...
(pls scroll down the page using the arrows of the vertical bar that appear to your right)
Now the facts:
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.npr.org...

8) Sharply fall in performance of the American Economy for 2008 posted on 31-December-2007 5:01 pm:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now lets check the facts that of course occured in 2008:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.msnbc.msn.com...


9) Prediction that the political situation and the public order in Columbia, south american was going to improve in 2008: posted on Feb 10th of 2008:
www.belowtopsecret.com...
Now lets check the accomplished fact:
www.newkerala.com...
www.independent.co.uk...
www.independent.co.uk...
www.telegraph.co.uk...'s-Hugo-Chavez-ends-support-of-Farc-rebels.html
www.guardian.co.uk...

[edit on 7/13/2008 by The angel of light]

If I understand you correctly, OP, you are asking if the Harry Potter books are part of a conspiracy designed to glamorize the practices of witchcraft and sorcery, and entice young people away from Christianity. If this interpretation is incorrect, please correct me and ignore what follows.

Are the Harry Potter books part of a conspiracy? I doubt it. If Rowling had collaborators, she would have had to share the profits, and I haven't seen any indication that she isn't getting all or most of the money from them. Nor do I think her collaborators, if they existed, would have kept quiet. Simple human greed, especially among 'amoral' witches and their ilk, would probably prevent that. I think Rowling had a great idea and the creativity, ability, and determination to follow it through, and any results aside from herself making a ton of money and entertaining a lot of people are unintentional.

Do the Harry Potter books glamorize witchcraft and 'magic'? Perhaps. They do refer to 'ordinary' humans as Muggles, which may or may not be a derogatory term. They do present the magical world as somewhat exclusive, and more exciting, than the 'Muggle' world. I note, however, that it is consistently the villains of the books, not the good guys, who disrespect Muggles and Mudbloods and look down upon us as being 'less than.' The good guys consistently protect and defend the Muggles. Also, the wizarding world is also presented as being more dangerous, tougher, and carrying more responsibility and duties. It's not a paradise by any stretch, and not really easier or better than the 'real' world.

Do the Harry Potter books lure young people away from Christianity? Personally, I doubt it. According to Christians, it seems that almost everything - dancing, movies, TV shows, music, books, video games, etc. etc. - is "designed" to lure young people away from Christianity. My first question upon hearing that is always, "If Christianity is so great, why is it so easy to lure young people away from it?" If it's a better, satisfying way of life, why must its (young) followers be so diligently protected from any temptation that might distract them? The answer from the Christian is usually that our world belongs to the devil, and apparently he and his multitude of helpers have nothing better to do than devise and practice new ways of turning Christians into non-Christians. And, of course, the reason these evil forces pick on Christianity so exclusively is because it's the one true religion.

But I'm straying from the topic. Do HP books have any great effect of luring youngsters away from their religion? I don't think so. First off, as much as we may applaud the effect of the books at getting kids to read, it's still only a small minority of children (especially if we consider the worldwide population of children) that are able to read well enough to pick up the books and enjoy reading them, and have the opportunity to do so. Furthermore, my personal experience over the past 20+ years of working with and around 'troubled' children is that neglect, abuse, direct peer pressure, poverty, the behavior of the adults who are part of their world (dishonesty, breaking promises, unethical acts, drugs, drinking, hypocrisy, etc.) are the things that most often drive, not lure, children away from Christianity.

In my personal opinion, the effect of the HP books on our children is insignificant. If you want to keep kids in church, or bring them back to the church, you would do better to help them improve their lives, and educate and support their parents so that they will be good parents and proper role models for their children. That will have a much greater effect than taking away their Harry Potter books.


[edit on 13-7-2008 by Heike] to correct italics

[edit on 13-7-2008 by Heike]

Originally posted by The angel of light

Looking how boosted are the sales of any kind of witchery products in the shops from the ones that result completly inofensive as only games or astrological charts to the ones that are strongly involved in spiritism, like the Ouijas that now are available in almost any place, or the Magic Books that teach openly how to do sorcery applied to practically any situation of the common life, I would not be so sure that this is something that the adolescents are not taking a little more serious that you claim.

Ouijas have been available most everywhere for a very long time, long before Harry Potter was even premised. The books in question however, have been gaining popularity long before Potter came along as well. The possibility of these being interlinked is slim to none.


I suggest you to walk carefully in any big book store of America in our days to confirm that the section of Witchery is bigger than even the section of Quantic phycics or bio-statistics in many of them.

First of all there is no "Witchery" section in any book store. The New Age section has grown exponentially, that I cannot argue with. What you have to keep in mind is that these sections don't just focus on wicca or any alternative religion in particular. There are books of many faiths including fringe Christianity and Judaism. If you also omit the books that are utter BS that aren't actually based in any type of religious or magical system, you'll find that about half of the books are actually about wicca or any real magical system.


No time before that the era of this films of Harry Pottter register in the west more increasing of new religious groups arround witchery and in particular wicca,


Not true, most wiccans attribute the growth of their religion to the invention of the photocopier. It has been growing quickly since then. Wicca was also becoming a well established religion well before the first Harry Potter book.


now it so common to see so young people claimed to be darks and using the most extravangant fashion to show that to the rest of the society, so this is indeed causing social impact in the world.

Don't fear the goths and emos. They're just kids trying to figure out their place in the world. They're just rebelling like most kids do, or trying to fit in, or actually enjoying their fashion of dress. Most of them are harmless. I would say based on experience that about 1 in 6 goth kids have any type of association to any type of dark art, or wicca.


I am not saying that anything that smells to wicca is bad necessarily, since it looks that even that religion has a light side, but Harry Potter personages use methods to solve situations that are even contrary to those possitive principles, for instance when they use magic to cause damage to the adversary.

God uses magic to cause damage to the adversary. In fact, he seemed to be quite fond of smiting people in the old testament. As far as wicca having a light side, of course it does, that's ninety percent of the religion. They use terms such as "Harm None" to express their views in relation to other people.


Supposely one essential principle of Wicca is The Rule of Three (also threefold law or law of return). Claiming that whatever energy a person puts out into the world, be it positive or negative, will be returned to that person three times.

Christian or not.... who can argue with Karma really.


By the way Witchery cults is since ancient times so related with the consumption of alucinogenic substances so no body knows where this is going to stop and how dangerous can be for the youth in general.

There are idiot kids around the world that abuse hallucinogens and have never heard of any type of witchcraft. People do massive amounts of stupid things every day, and would do so with or without the influence of Harry Potter.

There is nothing to this. Please see that.

Osiris