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Is Harry Potter the worst Conspiracy of Witchery of the History?

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posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 11:47 PM
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The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear Readers,

Let me start this new thread pointed some important personal information about who I am and why I am doing this:

I am a Christian psychic that has the gifts of telepaty, Clairvoyance and extrasensorial perception with respect to present and future events. In my case this a natural thing, I didnt do anytype of special study to acquire this skills, is just something that I had since born but I know is geneticaly transmited to me .

How I know that is genetic? Well in my mothers family there has been through many generations people with this same abilities, plus some of them that also are natural mediums, they can see the spirits but without invoking them, in fact none of my ancesters has been involved in any type of professional psychic activity outside the Christian ordenances like could be spiritism or witchery.

Recently as millions of other adult people of this west world I started to notice that the youths became so interested in the theme of Magic and It was initially to me a little difficult to understand so surprising collective taste for a matter that is so occult.

It was about 10 years ago that I started to listen that about certain books and laterly movies that tell the story of a School of Witchery, located of course in England that is a country with a very long tradition in that type of beliefs. That was the moment in which I focused my interest to know what was that Harry Potter and his so extraordinary adventures that are the delight of millions of children and adolescents of our epoch.

The Saga of Harry Potter can be resumed in the following way:
Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone was published in 1998,
Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets,
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban in 1999,
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire in 2000
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix in 2003
and
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince in 2005.

J. K. Rowling, the author, has announced that she plans one book for each
of Harry’s seven years in Hogwarts School.

Well, since the first moment It was not very difficult to me to realize that these Novels were francly taking about not Mysticism, not white magic, not about paranormal powers from a Scientific point of view but about Witchery in the most primitive and pure way that the subject can be treated. This is something that caught my atention since I was wondering what type of social effect can this produce in the so Young people that does not have all the correct information at hand to affront this sublimilal sugestion in favor of the dark magic arts.

The consequences started to appear in many aspects of the society with more and more young people buying not only these novels but also the magic kits of Harry Potter but moreover starting to buy any kind of products related with Magic: Crystal balls, Tarots, runics, Sorcery books, Black Magic books, and even ouijas to be used as inofensive toys when actually are so risky objects that even a professional psychic thinks twice to use.

Of course the phenomenon of Harry Poter has produced the appearition of of other authors that are now offering extensive text books to learn sorcerym, as for instance this one:
search.barnesandnoble.com...

I has been waiting for the reaction of the educational circles, as well as parents and churches with respect to this situation, and finally the voices started to protest, The Pope John Paul II autorized to Cardinal Ratzinger to send a message about the critic of the Catholic Church with respect to this Literature in 2003 and in 2005 the same Cardinal now as Pope Benedict XVI insisted in the so danger that Harry Potter represents with respect to the Christian adolescents and children.

Let me extract some fragments of the offcial pontificial communication about this :




From Times OnlineJuly 13, 2005

Pope criticises Harry Potter
By Rhys Blakely, Times Online
Pope Benedict XVI has condemned the Harry Potter books as "subtle seductions," capable of corrupting young Christians, in two letters which have now been published online.
...
The Pope's comments were included in two letters to Gabriele Kuby, the German religious author, who had sent him a copy of her book, Harry Potter - gut oder böse? (Harry Potter: Good or Evil?)

In one response, dated March 2003, he wrote in German: "It is good that you enlighten us on the Harry Potter matter, for these are subtle seductions that are barely noticeable, and precisely because of that have a deep effect and corrupt the Christian faith in souls even before it could properly grow."

He also thanked the author for her "instructive" book, in which Frau Kuby says the hugely popular Potter novels risk corrupting young people, preventing them from developing a proper sense of good and evil. She argued this could harm a child's developing relationship with God.

In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger "gladly" gave his permission for Frau Kuby to make public "my judgement about Harry Potter."

He also encouraged her to send her book to the Vatican prelate.
...
It is not the first time Harry Potter and Pope Benedict have gone head-to-head. Earlier this year the Pope's new book Salz der Erde (Salt of the Earth) overtook advance sales of The Half-Blood Prince in the German bestseller list with a five-figure print run being ordered to meet demand.


here are some related links:
blogs.usatoday.com...
www.cwnews.com...
business.timesonline.co.uk...

Hence, Are we affronting a major conspiracy of the Witchery circles to promote their style of life and their practices, that are of course clearly contrary to Christianism, through the publishing of the Novels of the sympatic adolescent aprentice of wizard Harry Potter?

Who is behind this Plot? Is the new Global merchantilism of our epoch trying to sell dangerous things to the young people to get money at any cost?

I think this is a subject that deserve a so extensive discussion in this forum until we can arrive to definite conclusions about what is the actual nature of this Literary phenomenon and what its consequences.

thanks,
The Angel of lightness




posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 11:52 PM
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i dont think this is the case at all. you imho are overthinking things. its a just a story made for enjoyment. i consider myself christian the catholic church is more likely to be connected with the occult than harry potter...



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by DaleGribble
 


Hi DaleGribble,
Well, it looks you didnt check all the links that I provided in the opening post of the thread. The Pope's critic probably was one the firsts public personality & religious Christian Principal leaders of the world concerning this matter but not the only one, in fact if you check carefully you will find other non Catholic voices against the Pottermania.

I suggest to chk also this very interesting:

www.ontruth.com...

Posted in the web by Cky J. Carrigan, Ph.D. in Theology and a minister of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Presently, Associate Professor of Evangelism and Missions, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Fort Worth, Texas 1/2008-present). Formerly, National Missionary of Evangelism, North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention (6/1998 – 12/2007).

The Baptist church was one of the firsts Christian congregations that reacted publically against the Harry Potter books as you can see in this post of July 2001:



HARRY POTTER BOOKS are filled with witchery, wizardry, and the occult—subjects that should concern Christians, knowing that God condemns these things (Dt. 18:10-11). So says a July Baptist Bulletin article, and rightly so, we believe. Paul listed "sorcery," or witchcraft, among the works of the flesh in Gal. 5:20-21, along with idolatry, heresies, murder, drunkenness, and so on.

you can find this information at:
home.hiwaay.net...

But if you want to read another Non Catholic voice with one of the most strong critics about Harry Potter, let me show to you some of the words of the Orthodox Priest Alexander from the Church of Ksenia of St.Petersburg in the city of Irkutsk, Russia:



..... it is his personal opinion and at the same time he confirms the negative attitude of the Russian Orthodox Church to the films about Harry Potter. "Why do you think the number of drug addicts, criminals and alcoholics has so considerably increased among children and teenagers? This fact is mostly explained with the lack of spirituality and much cruelty we see on TV.
.....

If you want to read the whole article pls chk this link:
www.hpana.com...

In 2001, Evangelical journalist Richard Abanes, published a polemical text that made similar allegations : Harry Potter and the Bible: The Menace Behind the Magick. Later editions incorporated comparisons and contrasts between Harry Potter and the more overtly Christian works of C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien.

In an interview with CBN.com, Abanes remarked that, "One of the easiest ways to know whether a fantasy book or film has real world magick in it is to just ask a simple question:




"Can my child find information in a library or bookstore that will enable them to replicate what they are seeing in the film or the book?' If you go to The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings what you see in, story magic and imagination, it is not real. You can't replicate it. But if you go to something like Harry Potter, you can find references to astrology, clairvoyance, and numerology. It takes seconds to go into a bookstore or library and get books on that and start investigating it, researching it, and doing it."


However, ironically there is the case of a Christian Church that was not against Harry Potter and even has shown publically support to it, of course, as you can guess is the Anglican church in or better known in American as Episcopal Church, this in voice of the ArchBishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of Oxford, lets check their official communiciations, also taken from the times of London:



Use Harry Potter to spread Christianity says
Church Joanna Sugden

As Harry Potter mania reaches fever pitch this week the Church of England is hoping to harness the frenzy to promote the Christian faith.

To coincide with the publication of J K Rowling’s final book about the boy wizard on Saturday, the Church of England is publishing a guide showing how to evangelise using the stories from Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

Evangelicals have been critical of the Harry Potter books and films on the ground that they glamourize the occult and attract children to the idea of witchcraft. Sensitivity to this issue led Canterbury Cathedral to reject a request to become a location for the first film, Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone. But in recent years, the Harry Potter phenomenon has received backing from church figures, including the former Archbishop of Canterbury Dr George Carey, who described the film as “great fun” and a serious examination of good and evil.
........
The Bishop of Oxford, the Rt Rev John Pritchard, today described Harry Potter author JK Rowling as a “great storyteller”. “Although the fictional world of Harry Potter is very different from our own,” he said, “Harry and his friends face struggles and dilemmas that are familiar to us all. Jesus used storytelling to engage and challenge his listeners." The Bishop said the Harry Potter books made young people think about the choices they make and their place in the world.


www.timesonline.co.uk...

I would prefer to have here comments about the core of the subject of the thread, not to go through the brances, or like smog curtains around the rethoric of each denomination to critizise others or of the atheism or Agnosticism about religion.

Lets enter in the subject please, it is important to have an open discussion with all the possible points of view, this is something that is affecting millions of young people all arround the world.

thanks for your participation in the thread,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness




[edit on 7/6/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:17 AM
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Hence, Are we affronting a major conspiracy of the Witchery circles to promote their style of life and their practices, that are of course clearly contrary to Christianism


In Harry's words:
"-Ridiculous!"
In my opinion It's just a story, don't see how it could corrupt anybody.
Let the kids have fun.

Of course I AM agnostic, so I might not spot the dangers.
Did read in "The case for Christ" that the Talmud spoke of Jesus as a dangerous magician (wizard?), but I don't have a link for it.

Anyway Just tell your kids the same thing you'd tell them about followers of [insert other religion/philosophy than yours here] .


[edit on Jul 6 08 by mimer]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:35 AM
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There were plenty of books for young adults that included magic and wizardry and witches in them long before Harry Potter came along. As charming as these books are, there is not one single new idea in them.

I think of a generation growing up reading these books and I want to say a prayer of gratitude that these books got all those kids to read just for fun.

No conspiracy here.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by The angel of light
 


Angel

beware!!!

you are against God "using" this type of thing.

Before i was a Christian i was Pyschic and this "gift" was growing in strength rapidly. Ill tell you now that this is not you doing anything. these are evil spirits.

Ill give you an example

the power of telepathy, you think something and en evil spirit whispers in the ear of the other person

You think of someone calling you and then the phone rings and its the exact person you thought about. you were told who was ringing by a demonic spirit.

These spirits come and go in an instance, at the speed of thought.

the reason you believe its genetic is that the demonic spirits have been around your family for so long.

I can say this because i had the same struggle, it was part of me, seemed like it always had been. I'll be honest with you, i believe my abilities started after i was possessed during a Ouija board session and reading Tarot. I did all sorts of stuff!

But i think that perhaps i can go back a little further. I remember when i was 8 i was on the beach with my mum and a "gypsy?" came up to my mum and started telling her past and giving predictions, she then gave her some trinkets and moved off. No money changed hands, nothing asked for.

when i became a Christian i had to think ,was this from God? I'll tell you know it is not, to say it was would be to contradict Gods word. he sees these things as an abomination.

If, as you say you are a Christian then plead to the Lord to remove anything that is not from Him, It took me around three years to fully trust the Lord in this.

We should trust the Lord almighty God in all things, I hope you dont think i'm being funny with you but i felt a panic when i read your first few lines and i will keep you in prayer. Please Read what Gods thinks of these things especially clairvoyance this is an abomination in Gods eyes. He did not give you this gift i assure you.

Leviticus 20:27 KJV

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.

wizard here is necromancer, someone who speaks with the dead. Please listen to the Lord and don't do it, pray and the devil will flee from you. It will take a bit of time to stop trying to use it but in Jesus all things are possible.

I thank and praise the Lord for taking hold of me. I dread to think where i would be now if he hadnt. Oh he's fantatstic!!!!!!! thankyou Lord, for never giving up on me!

anyway back to potter, yes the devil has many a tool for luring us away from the truth of Gods will.

take Care

david



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:33 AM
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J.K. Rowling herself says that 98% of the magic in the Harry Potter series is purely from her own imagination. The other 2% is folklore and old spells that she took much liberty with.


J.K. is a practicing Catholic, although in an interview she says that she struggles with her faith. Leave the woman alone, Christians are turning her books into a modern day witch hunt. And we all know how well those old witch hunts went. Guilty until proven flammable.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:36 AM
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Christians and magic, in any of its forms, do not go together.


any true christian wouldn't write this stuff, and yes i will say this about
Narnia et al

david



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by drevill
 


Hi Drevil,

I can say that I respect your personal opinion but I dont share it and I have a solid base to remain in that position. Let me tell to you that when a person, like me, has predited publically to many things in its life concerning incoming events, like in Below top secret on 2007, it is clear that some special mystic experience has occured, this does not have nothing to do with philosophical or theological speculation about this topic.

It is good that you know that many of those cases of Telepaty or Clairvoyance or prophetic visions were decisive to avoid or to prevent terrible dangers that could end with the life of a needed person. It is clear that you dont know with what kind of being are you talking.

However let me more clear and express openly that my actions are known by various religious persons , even by priests and nuns and many times and I have heard from them that this are the gifts of the Holy Ghost.

I dont know what is the source of such of interpretation that you did about this gifts of the spirit but any way please Pay atention to this important advice:

I think you must medidate about it because perhaps you are one of many natural psychic persons that is going to be falsely accused and manipulated by religious leaders that does not know any thing about this & are wanted that you feel guilty concerning this.

Guilt is some of the most powerful tools of manipulation that ever was used to obtain power over the people, it is also one of the most dinstinctive signs of a bad undertood Religion, since the trully one never creates guilt but liberation, a sense of personal responsible freedom that gives to the soul inner peace. God does not request guilty complexes but repentition of sins, and the consequence repair of the bad actions.


I suggest you to check:

Jesus cure the paralitic and forgive all his sins but moreover he telepatically read the mind of the pharisees St Mark 2: 5-12, St Luke 5:17-25
Jesus proclaim that the Law was given to protect the Man not the man to be slave of the Law St. Mark 2:23-27, St Luke 6:1-11

Moreover, be cautious about those that think in that way because they are putting limits to God, probably the are not trully believers but just people working in a Church or Sect just to get money or authority, I say this since your words are so closely to one of the Capital Sins warned by JesusChrist: Blasphemy to the Holy Spirit.

Lets chek this in the Gospel:

Mathew 12:22-32 Jesus & Belzeebul



12:22 Then they brought to him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute. Jesus healed him so that he could speak and see.
12:23 All the crowds were amazed and said, “Could this one be the Son of David?”
12:24 But when the Pharisees heard this they said, “He does not cast out demons except by the power of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons!”
12:25 Now when Jesus realized what they were thinking, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and no town or house divided against itself will stand.
12:26 So if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
12:27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
12:28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.
12:29 How else can someone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can thoroughly plunder the house.
12:30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
12:31 For this reason I tell you, people will be forgiven for every sin and blasphemy, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
12:32 Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


The same appear in St Mark 3: 20-30

But what are the gifts of the Holy Ghost, we can know that by checking so amazing passages of the life of Jesus:

Jesus levitated on the water and invite Peter to do the same:
Mt 14:22-32 ,

The Apostles watched Jesus Transfigurated with the spirits of Elijah and Moses and the sky open above them:
St. Mathew 17: 1-13, St. Mark 9:2-12

Jesus Predicts Peters Deniel: St. Mathew 26: 31-35, St. Mark 14:27-31

Jesus Predicts the destruction of Jerusalem in the 70 A.C and the End of the Present World St. Mathew. 24-1-33, St Mark 13:1-30

Jesus Predicts his own death St. Mathew 16:21-23, St Mark 10:32-34

Jesus predicts that some of his original apostles will remain undeath until the end of the world: St. Mathew 16:24-28

Jesus gave to his apostles authority to drive out spirits and cure any illness and even to determine cities that will be punished by God in the future: St. Mathew 10:1-16 , St Luke 9:1-6

Jesus talk about the Iriology & energy of the vision, a way to know the spiritual condition of person: St Luke 11:33-36

Jesus expulse a hord of demons after he talked with them, St. Mark 5:1-18

Jesus fed 5000 with only 5 loaves and 2 fishes, and he requested the Apostles to do the same by themselves. St Mark 6:30-46 St Mark 8:14-21

Jesus gave the gifts of the Holy Ghost:
St Mark 16:17 These signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 1 16:18 they will pick up snakes with their hands, and whatever poison they drink will not harm them; 2 they will place their hands on the sick and they will be well.”

Jesus Predicted the Prosecutions against the Apostles and the Christian Church between Centuries I to IV A.C: St. Mathew 10:17-41

Hence the Gifts of the Holy spirit are more powerful that any Witchery, this is for the youths that are reading me, that you can find more power in Christ than in any Wizard of Harry Potter and that telepathy, levitation, precognition, clairvoyance, mediumnity, healing, Tongues gift are all reachable through a Saint life, that Gospel is a text book of Mysticism, the best magic, but there is something else: Ethernal life, that none Witchery can give to you, but only the Realm of God, one better than Narnia. .

thanks ,

The Angel of Lightness

[edit on 7/6/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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As a young teen I read the "Lord of The Rings" trilogy, and as much as I've wanted to meet a Faerie or slay an Ork, it's never happened.

I seriously doubt a young person will read a Harry Potter novel and suddenly take off on his mothers broom. I can't see them batting each other about with wands either.

If I remember correctly they did have to recall a toy from the series. It was the Nimbus 2000 vibrating broom. It seems the parents freaked out when the little girls started enjoying riding their vibrating brooms just a wee bit too much.


Fairy tales and grand stories will all ways be a part of the reading process. I would rather have our children learning to read with a Harry Potter book than something as scary as the Bible.

Love and light,



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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First off, the stories were a coming of age series. Friendship, loyalty amongst freinds, love and loss, redemption ( ok a minor part, but there nevertheless), vengence, and a happy ending. Classics of literature. Magic just happened to be the plot device.

I've read every single one of them...my youngest niece grew up reading them...it was while babysitting her one night that I discovered JK Rowling, and she's as good a person as you're ever likely to run across.

As Dale said, you're overthinking this.

[edit on 7/6/2008 by seagull]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by TheB1ueSoldier
 





J.K. is a practicing Catholic, although in an interview she says that she struggles with her faith. Leave the woman alone, Christians are turning her books into a modern day witch hunt. And we all know how well those old witch hunts went. Guilty until proven flammable.


As I clearly stated in the opening of this thread I am not condemning here this literary work but opeining a free discussion about it. I think to be a worker or messenger of God, that is the meaning of the word Angel, thanks to my psychic experiences through Mysticism, give me a unique opportunity to try to understand the two sides of this polemic.


My questions & doubts about your point are essentially:

1) If J.K is a practicant Catholic , as some body dared to say, why she didnt think in Mystics, in the Christian Esoterism that is so rich in poetic images when she decided to start this saga, instead of the Witchery tradition of Great Britain? Where were her supposed solid Catholic values at the time of inspiration? When somebody claim that she is practicant of her faith what is this person taking about? pls explain more about it.

2) She could be a appearantly practicant British Catholic but any way is not Camilla Parker Bowles also Catholic? was not that lady the one that was for more than 20 years mistress of the Prince of Wales, even being this man marriage with another woman? was her affair decissive to produce the Divorce of Princess Diana? To be baptized Catholic or member of any other Christian denomination does not give assurance concerning sin.

3) The life of Jesus is plenty of poweful facts, his miracles are the most impressive proof of comunion with God, he did things that nobody did before him in the History, and that includes his Resurecction, so is it really necessary to look for fantasy in other sources?

4) Why not to tell the wonders that were made by the Jesus being a Boy, there are gospels of the chidhood too, look in the minor Gospels, the sometimes named Apocryphes.

5) There is no more esoteric and fantastic book that Revelation, also named Apocalypsis, and no higher Mystic than St John, the beloved apostle, that by the way, he was just an adolescent when Jesus died and resurrected.

These are only my personal reflections that I want to share with you, I think there are to many other questions to answer in this discussion,

thanks for your participation,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness


[edit on 7/6/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by drevill
Christians and magic, in any of its forms, do not go together.


Aye, just ask Jesus
Of course if Jesus turns water into wine it's not magic - just of anyone else does it .......


The Harry Potter books promote a far more christian ethos than many so-called Christians do ..... and may encourage children to fight evil, embrace friendship and loyalty and to reject bigotry and prejudice (all strong themes in the books). No wonder some religious folk dislike such books.

They're also more interesting and fun to read than 2000 year old religious sermons .....



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by mrwupy
 


Dear mrwupy,

I am so glad to have a teen ager reader here expressing freely his feelings about this important matter.

I am agree, in part, with you in the aspect that Harry Potter or Narnia or the Lord of Rings look to be more attractive than the Bible or the Gospel for the young readers, but that is precisely because the amount of resources inversed on it:

Nice ilustration, good edition, nice impression, also animation and special effects in the films, are created an incredible attractive athmosphere around these stories and more over the talent of authors like J.K Rowling is that they found the way to tell this in a fun way.

However the Parables of Jesus has a literary beauty that is difficult to surpass and impossible to deny and what film or production has be done in all the History of the Movie industry about them???

This is a critics not to you or your generation but to the people that is producing films all around the world currently, not only Holywood, about what is going on with the promotion of good movies for the young people.

The gospel of St John is the Story told by a so young guy, one that was almost a child when he met Christ, he was like his adoptive son, so his way to tell the things is more brilliant and magic than the other three major evangelists, his Gospel is the love's and Lights one, there is no fear at all in his writings but an incredible attractive charming.

The mystical images of the Apocalypsis, with all its extraordinary symbolic language, are the ones of a fresh mind, a person gifted with an extraordinary imagination and moreover clairvoyance, the stories there told are comparable with the Lord of Rings and even more powerful, but of course the return of the king refers to the Christ.

If you read the books of Daniel in the Old testament plus revelation you have a saga with more fantastic action than any Harry Potter film or any Lord of Rings one, but with one more extraordinary ingredient: this is Fantastic but not Fantasy, these facts are trully and are part of the actual war between Good and Evil, between God and Satan, each battle is not only the images of a good film but real ones that have occured or will occur in the future.

The powerful Magic that is contained in the Miracles of these Biblical stories is not illusion, is real in all aspects, and is someting that open a horizon of spiritual growing for anybody that pay atention seriously to them, you can not be a great Wizard studying them but something better: a possible outstanding and famous Mystic of all the epochs, like the kings David or Solomon, or the prophets Daniel, Joseph or Elijah.

There is a lot of power through the Holy Ghost given by God, read this:




1 Corinthians 15:50-55 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."[a]
55 "Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"

And also about St Paul and the Visions of the Paradise


2 Corinthians 12:1-4, New International version,

1 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
4 was caught up to paradise. He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.


So why I think is it is important to take care with the type of Magic arts that books like Harry Potter are promoting, the Wicca pagan practices,
since not all the paranormal forces are good, many are evil, this is a huge risk for any nonexperienced psychic and requires specific esoteric or mystical training.

chk pls this:



1 John 4:1-4 (New International Version)
Test the Spirits
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.



Thanks for your participation and I hope other teenagers wil take part on this thread.

Your friend,

The Angel of lightness



[edit on 7/6/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by The angel of light

Dear mrwupy,

I am so glad to have a teen ager reader here expressing freely his feelings about this important matter.



I said as a teenager I read the trilogy, not that I was a teenager.

Oh...wait...were you being sarcastic?

Continue on preacherman, Just don't expect everyone to fall in line or even believe you. I don't.

You have an opinion and you have a right to it, as do I. It's the sharing of these opinions that help us to grow.

If I believed in the Bible I would believe that in the end days there would be many, many false prophets and quite frankly, I would believe you to be one of them.

I don't believe in either though, so I guess we need to get back to Harry Potter, the fantasy series.

Harry never said to hate your mother, your father and your brothers if you wanted to follow him. I do believe Jesus did, (though I can't recall the exact verse off hand.) I'll look it up if you need me to.

I'd trust my children in the hands of Harry any day over Jesus. Well, I would if it were not for the fact they've all grown and moved on with their lives.

Love and light,



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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hello Angel

you seem to forget

Jesus was sent by God and had all the power of the father given to him by the father.

The outcome of said "predictions" in your post are irrelevant and i say again that Satan can show himself as an angel of light.

Also note the words signs and wonders??!!

You are entitled to your opinion but your last post to me was very revealing in many ways. there is also the gift of discernment and i thank the lord for it.

david



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by mrwupy
 

Hi Mrwupy,

No I am not sarcastic at all concering you, and let me apologize of the misunderstanding about your current age, but anyway it is interesting that you read this being an adolescent, that is important to qualify the value of your sincere answers.

you have the reason that all the opinions are valuable here, and that It's the sharing of these opinions that help us to grow.

No you are so wrong concerning my intentions, I am working in the correct side that is the God's one, that is something in which anybody can be sure, if I would be in the wrong side I would not be telling truths of these things in this way.

Probably my only "sin" is that I didn't register my activities in any sect or particular Church, so there are many, many fanatics that does not forgive such a fault, since they can not use me for their particular marketing strategies.

I am pretty sure that if the Angel of lightness tomorrow publically give his endorse to one of the major churches of America, immediatly I will be raised to a Saint condition for that one and to the worst of the demons for the others.

Why I am saying this? because that is one of the most negative sides of Religion in America in our epoch, that religion is becoming a business, a very profitable one,and the only actual law that exist on it is the one of the competence to catch followers, and unfortunately this hunting is not the more ethical one, to say lies and calumnies for many preachers is completly acceptable.

You are correct in the features of the Personality of Harry that you described: Harry never said to hate your mother, your father and your brothers if you wanted to follow him. Of course he likes a lot to do some sorceries with the people he doesnt like, I mean to convert some guy in a frog or a black cat, but those are only the "inocent" pranks of a wizard child.

Also you are quite write to point that Jesus was an excelent son.

thanks for your participation and for your sincerety,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness



[edit on 7/6/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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My questions & doubts about your point are essentially:

1) If J.K is a practicant Catholic , as some body dared to say, why she didnt think in Mystics, in the Christian Esoterism that is so rich in poetic images when she decided to start this saga, instead of the Witchery tradition of Great Britain? Where were her supposed solid Catholic values at the time of inspiration? When somebody claim that she is practicant of her faith what is this person taking about? pls explain more about it.


Just because someone is Catholic doesn't mean they aren't allowed to write fantasy novels about other topics.



2) She could be a appearantly practicant British Catholic but any way is not Camilla Parker Bowles also Catholic? was not that lady the one that was for more than 20 years mistress of the Prince of Wales, even being this man marriage with another woman? was her affair decissive to produce the Divorce of Princess Diana? To be baptized Catholic or member of any other Christian denomination does not give assurance concerning sin.


Not sure what this has anything to do with Harry Potter... Ill skip this one.



3) The life of Jesus is plenty of poweful facts, his miracles are the most impressive proof of comunion with God, he did things that nobody did before him in the History, and that includes his Resurecction, so is it really necessary to look for fantasy in other sources?


To put it bluntly.. yes. I would much rather read Harry Potter then the Bible. Does Jesus ride on the wings of dragons? Does he have a broom that he can fly on? Did he compete in the Tri-Wizard Games? Nope. While I must admit, Jesus did seem like a pretty cool dude, his magic is nowhere near as captivating to the young mind as Harry Potters. Not to mention that there really isnt any proof for the magic of Jesus either... so I will toss both of these books in the fantasy pile.



4) Why not to tell the wonders that were made by the Jesus being a Boy, there are gospels of the chidhood too, look in the minor Gospels, the sometimes named Apocryphes.


Again, beacuse its nowhere near as cool as Harry Potter. We want to be amazed - not put to sleep. Every child has dreams of being able to throw fireballs with their fingers, or fly around via magic spell. Jesus was lacking in the pyrokenesis field of magic, and I am pretty sure he wasnt too keen at flying, especially when he was a boy.



5) There is no more esoteric and fantastic book that Revelation, also named Apocalypsis, and no higher Mystic than St John, the beloved apostle, that by the way, he was just an adolescent when Jesus died and resurrected.


Sure, lets tell the children about how the world is going to be cleansed in fire. I am sure they would love to hear about the end-times prophecies... Not. Children want to be entranced, not scared to death. Leave the fear-mongering of Revelations in the bible while people like J.K Rowling and Tolkien write some amazing fantasy books. I would much rather read a chapter of Harry Potter to a child then any part of Revelations. I am also quite sure that any child would find Harry Potter much more interesting, as well as full of most peoples childhood dreams.



These are only my personal reflections that I want to share with you, I think there are to many other questions to answer in this discussion,

thanks for your participation,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness


I understand, but you really should realize that there is MUCH better entertainment then the bible. Heck, I am 24 years old and I still find the Harry Potter series quite facinating. If I was a child.. It would be pure amazement. I could only wish they had such things when I was younger.

There is nothing wrong with opening the childs eyes to the idea that anything is possible, and these stories stimulate the imagination. Thank god we have such great works of literature, instead of having to rely on such stories as put forth by the bible.. It would be quite a dull world with only one super hero named Jesus..



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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I once wrote a short, short story called, The Voice of God, that few members on ATS cared for. Or at least they didn't care enough to comment on it.

This story holds true for me, so Harry Potter or the Dead Sea Scrolls or any other religious text are simply not needed for me. They make interesting reading but that does not give them divine meaning. Divinity comes from your heart and the creator of us all, not from the things you read in a book, regardless of what that book is titled.

Now look at you, you have me going off and being a false prophet as well.

Just trust your heart, God will not lead you astray.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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www.amazon.com...=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215391481&sr=8-1" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Looking For God in Harry Potter is a fantastic read and should be checked out. It has wonderful insight into the entire series (well, up through book 5 with predictions for 6 and 7 which turned out to be somewhat accurate) and shows how the series is very strongly influenced by Christianity. Essentially, this series is a modern "Chronicles of Narnia", only most people are too obtuse to look beyond the use of magic to understand the theme of the book. One thing to point out is that in the Harry Potter series, Rowling never has her characters (the good ones at least) use magic by summoning demons. It's instead, an innate ability used to further define the fantasy world and tell a strongly Christian story, without most people realizing it...

Seriously, check it out. It's a fantastic read, and it's short.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Drikanna]

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Drikanna]
tried to clean up the link and make the book title a hyperlink, but failed miserably. Sorry.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Drikanna]




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