Christians Committ More Crime and Divorce

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons:

Christians also make up 75% of America's population.
Christians make up 75% of the prison population in America.
Of those 75%, Catholics are 39% and Protestants are 35%.

Atheists make up 10% of America's population.
Atheists make up .02% of the prison population in America.




According to the Barna Research Group on Divorce Rates:

Non-Denominational Christian have a divorce of rate 27%

Protestants have a divorce rate of 24%

Catholics have a divorce rate of 21%

Atheists/Agnostics have a divorce rate of 21%




No matter how much smoke and mirrors religious people use to convince you that they are somehow more "righteous" and "moral", statistics never lie. I've been seeing a lot of people on ATS and in general saying that christians are better people or that atheists "have no morals". They believe this country would be better if everyone were a christian, and according to statistics and trends that would be extremely wrong. Secular, atheistic countries such as Japan and Sweden have extraordinarily low crime rates. Compare this with the most religious countries such as America and religious areas like the Middle East with crime statistics that are horrendous.


I made this as anti-propaganda. To open your eyes and lift the blindfold that religious zealots have placed over your eyes. The world would be better off without religion.

Please be patient with me as I try to explain:

If there were, for example, three types of people in America: the purple, the pink, and the blue, and the purple people were the majority, wouldn't it make sense that the purple people would have the highest rates in almost everything? Only because there is more of them?

blue one soldier, you will get your wish when antichrist arrives.

what you don't realize you dufus. is that, that (75) percent is 75 percent (hypocrits)

but you see this doesn't make void what christ really taught, and the main thing he taught was immense humility.

If the world is without religion, you can fill that void with communistic athiesm and no moral code, I'm talking about the communist. violence will exist with or without religion.

the true religion consists in nothing more than love and non hyopcracy.


God bless you.

Originally posted by Alora
If there were, for example, three types of people in America: the purple, the pink, and the blue, and the purple people were the majority, wouldn't it make sense that the purple people would have the highest rates in almost everything? Only because there is more of them?

The ratios are what count, not so much the percentage. The ratio of Christians in America to Christians in prison is 1:1. Ratio of Atheists on the other hand is 1:500. That means Christians are 500x more likely to commit crime than Atheists. Or, at least that 500x more prison inmates claim to be Christian.

But in the world we live in today, is it really a surprise that religious people do more wrong than people who just live out their lives without listening to the giant invisible man in the sky?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
blue one soldier, you will get your wish when antichrist arrives.

The antichrist sounds like a jerk, I wouldn't join him if he comes. You see, I do not divide the world into TWO parties, christ and anti-christ. The world is not black and white, rather it is subtle shades of gray. The sooner you learn this, the easier your life will be.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
what you don't realize you dufus. is that, that (75) percent is 75 percent (hypocrits)

I don't blame you for using this argument, its the only one you can fall back on when faced with the truth. And the truth is that religion corrupts, and religion is for the common and uneducated.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
If the world is without religion, you can fill that void with communistic athiesm and no moral code, I'm talking about the communist. violence will exist with or without religion.

Really now, is that what you believe? Compare countries, for a moment. Compare crime rates and divorce rates in secularist atheist countries such as Sweden and Japan with Religious countries such as USA, Pakistan, Lebanon, and Iran. Ahh, but I can hear the gears in your mind winding and I just know that you will fall back on the unfalsifiable argument that "Oh but those other religious people are Hypocrites!" The truth is in your face people, you can take it or leave it.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
the true religion consists in nothing more than love and non hyopcracy.

Well now, you don't need a God or a Religion to have love and non-hypocrisy. If thats what you really want then why look to religion? Surely the track record of Christianity is more than enough to convince you that it won't help you be more loving.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


what a lovely sentement...

blue one soldier, you will get your wish when antichrist arrives.

Translation: burn in hell.

what you don't realize you dufus. is that, that (75) percent is 75 percent (hypocrits)

I wonder if Christ ever mocked anyone, or belittled them with names?

but you see this doesn't make void what christ really taught, and the main thing he taught was immense humility.

Have you learned this lesson yet?

the true religion consists in nothing more than love and non hyopcracy.

Oh don't forget childish name calling.

God bless you.

You Dufus!

reply to post by TheB1ueSoldier


For the divorce rates:

This really isn't anti-propaganda, its playing with statistics. Care to tell us what the confidence interval is for this survey? Unless they spent a lot of money to get a rather large sample size, I bet you its +/- 3% or so. Which means that these numbers are within the margin of error, and there is no statistically significant material difference.

For the prison population ratios:

This also disregards the culture of the prison population. Even though they may have warped forms of Christianity, profession of being a Christian is still strongly encouraged via group pressure which is the opposite of what the peer pressure is outside of the prison system.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
For the divorce rates:

This really isn't anti-propaganda, its playing with statistics. Care to tell us what the confidence interval is for this survey? Unless they spent a lot of money to get a rather large sample size, I bet you its +/- 3% or so. Which means that these numbers are within the margin of error, and there is no statistically significant material difference.

They(Barna) had interviewed 3,854 adults from the 48 contiguous states. The margin of error is ±2 percentage points.

Oh and by the way, non-denominational Christian divorce rates are 34% not 27% like I said earlier. So even with the margin of error taken into account, we can safely say that Christians in general have a higher divorce rate. Now, religion could play a role in this or it could not. I am saying this because Churches and Christian apologists are always claiming that a marriage that includes God will last longer. Apparently, God makes relationships weaker.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
For the prison population ratios:

This also disregards the culture of the prison population. Even though they may have warped forms of Christianity, profession of being a Christian is still strongly encouraged via group pressure which is the opposite of what the peer pressure is outside of the prison system.

I'm not entirely sure what you meant here. Do you mean that the group pressure in prisons conform prisoners to be Christian? These are prisons that were polled, not high schools filled with angsty teenagers. And even assuming that we take into account acknowledgment of hypocritical Christians, the overwhelming ratio of 1 Atheist to 500 Christians speaks for itself.

Great, you provided information that the divorce thing is within the margin of error except for one group.

There are other flaws that I could use to seriously question the validity of comparing the only group which has a material difference - non-denominational Christians vs. Atheists. The research shows that a lot of people claim to be Christian but do not actually abide by the tenets of the Christian religion, including things like believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. What this demonstrates is that we have a lot of people claiming to be Christian who by any objectionable measure are not Christians. Since these people are also less likely to attend any church, they tend to claim no denomination.

This is why comparing self-identification with objective data on events is playing with statistics. Self-identification questions have a wide range of error, because each respondent will have a different way of putting themselves into a classification system with very few exceptions. Most people can agree on a objective standard of what is male or female and correctly place themselves in that category in a survey - but almost no one can agree on a objective standard of what constitutes Christian.

So what you end up with is a whole bunch people, who really may or may not be Christian (or any other non-objective self-identifying classification scheme). You are then comparing them to data which is based on a event which can be objectively measured - we can all agree on what constitutes a divorced person (the filing of divorce papers) or being a prisoner (being in prison).

And yes, there is peer pressure in prisons, as there is in all groups of people. I used to work with a former prison administrator. He told me that there was a lot of group pressure to "get Christian" for a variety of reasons. It helps to "get religion" to get parole, and usually it helps to be the religion of those considering you for parole. Given the statistics, your best shot is to act like/claim to be a Christian.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

Ahhhhem
Another hate mongers thread !!!

Stats don't reflect that 94.7% of those inmates were atheists when they committed the crimes. The harsh environment of prison led them to prayer. So when they took the survey they answered honestly that they were Christian. Plain damn truth that most crimes are committed by atheists is obvious.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

No matter how much smoke and mirrors religious people use to convince you that they are somehow more "righteous" and "moral", statistics never lie.

Actually, statistics lie all the time. Statistics are often used as a weapon with which to bludgeon an opponent.

What is really interesting about the OP is the omission of Muslims from the statistics when they are a significant presence in U.S. prisons.

There are no statistics on Wiccans. No statistics on satanists. No statistics on ... Enough said.

The other interesting thing is that these are statistics about labels used in self-identification rather that statistics that tease out variations on practise from 'in-name-only' to 'true believer' or 'true unbeliever'. There is the potential for illumining quantifiable data here, but the self-identifying label is not very instructive.

One wonders about the statistics of conversions in prison. How many became christian to get favours with the parole board. How many became muslim for protection and survival reasons on the inside of the prison...

Peace out.


[edit on 8/7/08 by Pellevoisin]

Wait A Minute!

It's Atheists like you who claim to be righteous. That's the purpose of this thread is it not? Whose trying to convince you they are more righteous than you? Sorry not Christians. Christians confess their personal depravity and utter realiance on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. We do not claim personal righteousness. We leave that to atheists.

Jesus hung out with criminals, whores, lepers, tax collectors. He avoided the ones that called themselves righteous. The so called "good" people are the ones that had him killed.

See you can lead a perfect sinless life but tell one lie and you are condemed. That is the standard of the Law. We all deserve Hellfire. No one is righteous no not one. Christians are just wise enough to admit it and accept Christ rather than vainly assume their personal righteousness and worthinesses.

Once you are saved by Jesus your sin past present and future sin is forgiven. You will improve and sin less often as you are sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Christians seek to do good out of gratitude to God not out threat to follow rules. Without the grace of the cross we are all toast.

reply to post by TheB1ueSoldier


Can you link to where you got these statistics? I searched the FBP site and the Statistical Abstract of the U.S. and am getting different data than what you reported.

It's Atheists like you who claim to be righteous. That's the purpose of this thread is it not? Whose trying to convince you they are more righteous than you? Sorry not Christians. Christians confess their personal depravity and utter realiance on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ. We do not claim personal righteousness. We leave that to atheists.

Ummm, isn't this an oxymoron?

'It's you atheists who claim self-righteousness, but us Christians are better than and above all that'.

reply to post by bigbert81


Really bigbert? Where did I say "Christians are better than that?". Because I surely didn't mean to. I can't find it in my post either. It seems like you just like to start arguments. Because what I typed was:

Christians confess their personal depravity

Based on Romans 3:10 that says "no one is righteous."

also

“All our righteous acts are like filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6)”

Genuine Christianity teaches personal depravity and reliance on Jesus Christ. "How you got we think we are better" from "we think we are worse"? Is a mystery.



[edit on 7/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Whammy, I'm talking about what your statements sound like, not what you said verbatim. This is getting extremely old that I cannot comment on what you are technically saying or sounding like because it isn't verbatim.

And the quote I highlighted does indeed sound as I laid it out. Also, so does this one:

Christians are just wise enough to admit it and accept Christ rather than vainly assume their personal righteousness and worthinesses.

Here, you say that 'Christians' are the ones 'wise enough', while, saying that atheists 'vainly assume their personal righteousness'. Do you say that verbatim, no, but when you look at the above quote plus this one:

It's Atheists like you who claim to be righteous.

I'd say it's a fair deduction. Would you disagree with that? Or are you going to start saying I'm making stuff up again?

I invite others to look at your quotes and weigh in on this.

Am I making it up, or do I have a point?

What they sound like to you is not what they say bigbert.

That is your problem. Comprehension.

If you stick to the actual words rather than what you think they sound like we wouldn't have a problem. But what you do is intellectual dishonesty.

you wrote that I said this bert...

bigbert
It's you atheists who claim self-righteousness, but us Christians are better than and above all that'.

You even put quotes around it which is intellectual dishonesty.

I really wrote this:

My words
We do not claim personal righteousness. We leave that to atheists.

NOT the same bert. I never said we were "better than this and above all that" anyone.

Now for this canard:

My words
Christians are just wise enough to admit it and accept Christ rather than vainly assume their personal righteousness and worthinesses.

Claiming we are wise enough to admit we are not righteous is no where near what you misconstrued to say we are "better than and above all that."

Bert if you could please make an effort to use my actual words and we can have a civilized discussion. Until then you are bordering on troll status.




[edit on 7/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Great, you provided information that the divorce thing is within the margin of error except for one group.

Research groups, focus groups, and magazines such as Focus On The Family and Southern Baptist Convention's Council on the Family claim that Christian households only experience a 1% divorce rate at most. They even have the slogan "a family that prays together, stays together." So I wasn't kidding about the propaganda and unsupported "facts" that Christian interest groups throw at us. And in light of this new poll, its confirmed that in fact Atheists and Christians do not have a large enough difference in divorce rates for Christian interest groups to be saying this. That is why its anti-propaganda.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
The research shows that a lot of people claim to be Christian but do not actually abide by the tenets of the Christian religion, including things like believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ. What this demonstrates is that we have a lot of people claiming to be Christian who by any objectionable measure are not Christians.

Well who are you to tell who is or is not Christian? Everyone has their own opinion on what constitutes a Christian. The Catholic Church has stated many times that it is the one true church for Christians. Some protestants claim that the pope is actually an agent of the devil and that Catholics are condemned to hell. Other protestants believe that if you cannot speak in tongues then you will not go to heaven because you haven't been spiritually reborn (its true my old church preached this). Ultimately, you CANT judge each Christian to see if they follow your specific rules of Christianity, because everyone has different rules. The only reliable way is to ask people if they consider themselves to be following a Christian life and if they indeed are a Christian.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Since these people are also less likely to attend any church, they tend to claim no denomination.

Actually, non-denominational refers to Evangelical Christians, not the kind of Christians who stay home on sundays and fap on the internet all day. Evangelicals hold a very fundamentalist Christian view and tend to grow along the bible belt.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
This is why comparing self-identification with objective data on events is playing with statistics. Self-identification questions have a wide range of error, because each respondent will have a different way of putting themselves into a classification system with very few exceptions. Most people can agree on a objective standard of what is male or female and correctly place themselves in that category in a survey - but almost no one can agree on a objective standard of what constitutes Christian.

Agreed, but that does not mean you can throw all the evidence out the window. Face it, the only reason you say this is because the statistics didn't match up to what you wanted. If it were 75% Atheist and .02% Christian you'd have a lot less to quarrel with.

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
It helps to "get religion" to get parole, and usually it helps to be the religion of those considering you for parole. Given the statistics, your best shot is to act like/claim to be a Christian.

This does bring up an interesting point, but I can use the same argument another way. Here is your same statement with a few changes:

"It helps to 'get religion' to get presidential candidacy, and usually helps to be the religion of those considering you for president. Given the statistics, your best shot is to act like/claim to be a Christian."

You see, peer pressure can be used to skew statistics any which way you want. But rarely do we ever get a ratio of 500:1 in statistics., so I consider it very reliable.

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
Actually, statistics lie all the time. Statistics are often used as a weapon with which to bludgeon an opponent.

That is wrong, and it is contrary to denying ignorance. It is true that statistics can be manipulated - as they may have been in this case - but they are not always that way. Which is why you should look at the data.

No one should embrace statistics just because someones cites them. But you should look at the data and how the data was collected and see if it the conclusions made can be drawn from the data.



[edit on 8-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

reply to post by Bigwhammy




Ok Whammy, it appears you are growing desperate here.

You even put quotes around it which is intellectual dishonesty.

Well Whammy, I would've figured that you would have been able to figure out WHY I put quotes around it. Because I wanted to sum up what it was that you sounded like YOU were saying. Intellectual dishonesty?

Claiming we are wise enough to admit we are not righteous is no where near what you misconstrued to say we are "better than and above all that."

Yet another oxymoron from Whammy. Christians are the wise ones because they know better (or in your words, 'wise enough', and of course implying that atheists are NOT wise enough because they are not Christian), is nowhere even CLOSE to me saying that you were making it sound like Christians are 'better than that'.

I find it really hard to believe that you are not following my logic here Whammy, and in doing this, I'd say THAT makes YOU the troll here.



[edit on 7/8/2008 by bigbert81]