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Flip Flops - Not Just for the beach anymore

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posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 06:37 AM

He now supports broader authority for the government's eavesdropping program and legal immunity for telecommunications companies that participated in it, supporting the bill after some protections were added.

The handgun control proponent reacted to the Supreme Court overturning the District of Columbia's gun ban by saying he favors both an individual's right to own a gun as well as government's right to regulate ownership.

Obama became the first major-party candidate to reject public financing for the general election after earlier promises to accept it.

He not only embraced but promised to expand Bush's program to give more anti-poverty grants to religious groups, a split with Democratic orthodoxy.

He objected to the Supreme Court's decision outlawing the death penalty for child rapists, drawing attention to his support for the death penalty if used only for the "most egregious" crimes.

Obama also said "mental distress" should not count as a health exception that would permit a late-term abortion, saying "it has to be a serious physical issue," addressing a matter considered crucial to abortion rights activists.

Source:Analysis: Obama's centrist emphasis gives GOP ammo

Edit: Fixed link

[edit on 5-7-2008 by BlueTriangle]

posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 06:40 AM
Obama is sliding to the right. He's changed his position on many of the major issues that helped win him the democratic nomination. Let's ignore the phrase "flip flop" for a minute, as it seems to cause an argument about the 2004 campaign every time it's used. Let's instead look at the fact that he has changed his opinion on so many issues.

What does he really stand for? Is this the "change" he's been preaching? I think this shows without a doubt that he's just another politician who's willing to say ANYTHING for you vote, regardless of what he actually intends to do if he's elected.

posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 05:53 PM

* McCain supported the drilling moratorium; now he’s against it.

* McCain strongly opposes a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

* McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

* McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

* McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.

* McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

* He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”

* McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.

* McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

* McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

* He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

* McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.

* He wanted political support from radical televangelists like John Hagee and Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.

* McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.

* McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”

* McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

* McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.

* In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

* McCain has changed his economic worldview on multiple occasions.

* McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions.

* McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

* McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off than they were before Bush took office.

* McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

* McCain believes his endorsement from radical televangelist John Hagee was both a good and bad idea.

* McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

* McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal.

* In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

* McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.

* On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own legislation.

* In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

* McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

* McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

* McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.

* McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.

* McCain used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February.

* On a related note, he said 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and insisted he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

* In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

* McCain supported a major campaign-finance reform measure that bore his name. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

* McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.

Not just for the beach, indeed...

[edit on 5-7-2008 by evanmontegarde]

posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 05:54 PM
A few more:

* McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

* McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.

* McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

* McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.


posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 09:04 AM
OK. So we have two flip-flopping candidates. Two wrongs don't make a right, as they say. So tell me this, how can any of you vote for either one of these idiots when it's impossible to tell where they stand on anything?

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 09:19 AM
Thanks for the post Blue Triangle. You're exactly right, they're two-sides of the same dirty coin. They'll say whatever is necessary to garner your vote, then do what their masters command once their in office.

The whole election process is a sham. We have no real choice as to who's running. The candidates are chosen by billionaires and special interests groups behind closed doors. We are only allowed to choose between the lesser of the two evils presented to us. God help us all..

[edit on 7/6/08 by LLoyd45]

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:05 AM
Just my thoughts on Obama's positions on these things:

I was disappointed that he voted for the eavesdropping program and immunity for telecommunications companies. I don't like it on the surface, but I'm confused on the bill. So I'm not sure of his position and I'm not sure it's a "flip-flop". It COULD be, I'm just not sure.

I also favor both an individual's right to own a gun as well as government's right to regulate ownership. It's not impossible to have both opinions. Most of our protected rights are regulated somehow. Free speech is regulated. Voting is regulated. Picketing is regulated. Gun ownership can be regulated as well, and still not be infringed. It already is regulated.

Obama never promised to accept public financing. He said he would pursue an agreement with McCain for them both to accept it. Their lawyers spoke and a decision was made that an agreement could not be reached.

Obama has been working with religious groups to help the community since before he was a State Senator. Whether Democrats like this or not, it can hardly be called a "flip-flop". He is doing what he thinks is right, not what a Democrat is expected to do. Even though I'm not religious, I respect him for this move. It's something he has always believed in. Democrat orthodoxy be damned. This is one thing I REALLY like about him. He's as apt to snub the Democrats as he is to snub the Republicans. He does what HE thinks is right.

Again, his support for the death penalty is not a "flip-flop" (if used only for the "most egregious" crimes) From 2006

While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes--mass murder, the rape and murder of a child--so heinous that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment. On the other hand, the way capital cases were tried in Illinois at the time was so rife with error, questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy lawyering, that 13 death row inmates had been exonerated
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p. 58 Oct 1, 2006

The late-term abortion issue is a move to the center, from what I can tell. I don't see how it can be called a "flip-flop", though, which indicates a complete turn-around on an issue. He is still VERY pro-choice, and leaves this particular issue to the states, meaning a person could still go to the next state and get an abortion if she wanted.

posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:20 AM
Great posts everyone, I was hoping someone would put McCain's flip-flops as well on here...only for the fact that it just proves that candidates from either party will say and change position on anything to get elected.

The only "telling" flip-flops IMO are the ones where they say one thing then actually vote another way while they are in congress. That's really the only way I think you can tell how they actually feel on issues.

And that's one reason I think it's very hard to distinguish Obama's true stance on issues, he hasn't had as long of a voting record.

It would be more interesting if someone could produce a list of exactly how they both voted and on what issues, don't you think? The proof is in the vote IMO.

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