Are Catholics Christian?

Originally posted by passenger
Again though, I cannot say that you are hypocritical because that is the true Catholic Way. You are obviously trained well in the methods of a Church that has killed in the name of Love; A Church that has tortured in the name of Peace.; A Church that has stolen in the name of Charity. True Catholic you are indeed.

Uhhhh, don't you think your being just slightly hypocritical here? I mean, seriously.

It's almost funny. Ok, it actually is pretty funny.

Eric

Originally posted by EricD
Uhhhh, don't you think your being just slightly hypocritical here? I mean, seriously.

Uhhhhhh, NO. How am I being a hypocrite? I never claimed to be a Christian. Therefore, I don’t have to abide by the rules of Christianity. I don’t have to follow the Scripture. Robhaidheuch is claiming to be Catholic, a.k.a. Christian, ergo he has to abide by the rules of Christianity. He has to abide by Scripture. I am submitting that he (and the Catholic Church) does not -that makes him a hypocrite.

Please read back to the posts that instigated the name calling and then you tell me who acted more accordingly with the words of Jesus. I protest my innocence in this matter and stand by my statements.

I’ll be the first to admit that I am a hypocrite on a lot of my own bad habits. However, I’d like an explanation as to how you can rightfully call me a hypocrite on this issue.

reply to post by passenger


You decry his use of slander, name calling and his venomous comments and then you turn around and say that those are the ‘Catholic way’. You don’t find that hypocritical? From where I sit saying that this is the 'Catholic way' is venomous and slanderous.

I’m Catholic. Have I slandered you, called you names (with the exception of the positing a question of hypocrisy) or made venomous comments?

I’d suggest avoiding blanket statements and sweeping condemnations and you might not want to take offense at someone’s use of the same rhetoric that you employ.

Eric


[edit on 31-7-2008 by EricD]

reply to post by EricD


You don’t really seem to understand the meaning of “Hypocrite” . Making a “blanket statement” or “sweeping condemnation”, in and of itself, does not make one a hypocrite. To wit, a hypocrite is one who professes one thing and does another. I haven’t done that (here). I challenge you to show me where I have in this thread. Again, I don’t claim to be a Christian, therefore I don’t have to abide by the rules of Christianity . Yes, perhaps my comments are - to you - venomous. But they are not hypocritical. I may be wrong but I am not a hypocrite. The self-professed “Christian” has been . Did you actually read the posts that instigated this?

reply to post by passenger


It wasn't the making blanket statements or sweeping condemnations that I was referring to as being hypocritical. I was merely suggesting that it does a disservice to your argument.

As far as the definition of 'hypocrisy', you are absolutely right and I apologize. I was using the word in a more colloquial form, pointing out your decrying the tactics of your opponent when you use those same tactics. But you are correct. Technically accusing others of doing what you are also doing is not hypocrisy.

Eric

reply to post by EricD


Apology accepted with no malice retained. I understand now, from your explanation, what you meant to convey. But as to my argument, I admit I could have been more disciplined but I still did not resort to the same tactics as my opponent - at least I don’t think I did. But even if I did, I don’t have to abide by the same rules as a Christian - in the sense of not accusing or condemning another.

I still stand by my statement that the Catholic Church says one thing and does another and so does it‘s foremost defender here. . That‘s the core of this post: They claim to be the embodiment of Christianity but act contradictory to it‘s founders teachings.

Again thanks, EricD: Everyone sometimes posts stuff here that doesn’t quite express what they really meant to say. You are good enough to admit that and that says something about your character. True class!

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


jmdewey60

and

Robhaidheuch

“Christianity is the fulfilment of the Jewish Faith, and the Catholic Church has retained much in its liturgy that is essentially Jewish.”- Robhaidheuch
Oh dear! What a Whopper! As the Jewish teacher often told us in school “you will go to hell for lying as fast as you will for stealing!”

No my friend Christianity is becoming as close to Yeshua/Jesus as one can. It is to follow in the ways and teachings of the Rabbi. How would one know a Rabbi without knowing His faith, background, culture and beliefs?

I see far more of Turkish, Egypt and Greece in the Church of Rome than anything Jewish.

I believe you found a teaching in Talmud promoting homosexuality! As you are so found of asking others please produce the reference for this claim. It interests me in that it is contrary to Leviticus. I can not fathom a Rabbi saying such a thing. A Catholic Priest or Pope yes a Rabbi no.

You both have been assaulted here for quite some time. Please do not get defensive with me, I mean you no disrespect or harm. I only seek the truth and have tried to provide as much to you.

jmdewey60 as I recall you spoke of not being ready to bow or kneel and worship me and something about money. I would except neither from you or anyone seeking the truth. If you have money to spare I advise you to find a widow or orphan in need, that is what I and my family, while they were alive, did.

Robhaidheuch, when I referenced Paul as “the liar” it was to his title of “Liar of Tarsis”

Who was Paul: www.borndigital.com...

jdstone.org...

www.youtube.com...

Please do not assault me but defend your self proclaimed “Saint” Paul. If I am mistaken in how I read him I would like to be corrected. But indulge me if you can make the time and look at least at these next three sites. Thank you in advance.

Jesus or Paul
www.judaismvschristianity.com...

truthseekers.co.za...

www.users.globalnet.co.uk...


Also you changed a statement of mine concerning public education started by the Jews (as it was) and brought up some information concerning Catholic mid-evil colleges. I was speaking of free education for all of a nations or later towns people. Not the fascist schools we are all so familiar with from the Catholic Order or even the spawning grounds to find future Jesuits (Catholic supported colleges).
Below is a little information concerning the early Jewish schools provided free for all who wished to attend:

If anyone has free time here are some sites worth a look at. I can find no similarity between the Jews and Catholic “Universal Church” but I’ll keep looking.

Jewish education:
www.newmediabible.org...

About white lies:
www.aish.com...

Messianic music:
www.davidstent.org...#

What is the latest with Judaism?
www.aish.com...

Judaism 101:
www.ou.org...

“Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus” Thomas Jefferson in a letter to W. Short as presented in The Great Thoughts by George Seldes
From Ballantine Books (page 208).
Also for those who love Jefferson here is a link to a book he created in four languages and kept on his person for council:

Jefferson Bible:
www.angelfire.com...

Vatican demands for - POPE TO BE KING OF YOUR CONSCIENCE! #1:

www.youtube.com...

There is a reoccurring misunderstanding concerning Peter as the first pope:
Who is the ROCK: mtc.org...

www.users.globalnet.co.uk...

www.jpost.com...

www.cuttingedge.org...

Crimes:
www.jesus-is-lord.com...

www.jesus-is-lord.com...

topics.nytimes.com...

www.trutv.com...

www.borndigital.com...

False doctrine:
www.answeringcatholicism.com...

www.bible.ca...

www.jesus-is-savior.com...

For the insomniacs in this group I include the below. Many times during shift work I have found time to read those little pamphlets called
Track: www.chick.com...

Well that should be a base to derive the answer to the question are Catholics Christians?

Not it they rely only on Catholicism for spiritual guidance!

A Christian must follow Yeshua/Jesus first and above all others. Now I suppose a well learned Catholic could develop such a belief on their own if they never spoke of it. I pray they all do and when they do they leave that abomination to G-d.

Consider this- If all the supporters of the Church of Rome and television ministers sent their wealth and loving support to the Messianic Jews of Israel then Israel could afford to tear itself free from US political control and influence! I believe such freedom would bring a lasting peace in the Middle East. Ask yourself what would Yeshua/Jesus want to see done by His true followers?

reply to post by Comforter

jmdewey60 as I recall you spoke of not being ready to bow or kneel and worship me and something about money. I would except neither from you or anyone seeking the truth. If you have money to spare I advise you to find a widow or orphan in need, that is what I and my family, while they were alive, did.

It is hard to explain how I think about you.
I was hoping you might explain yourself, but never mind.
What I guess I should say is something like, "You have had certain experiences and have been shown things, I do not doubt that.
But unless you have had a hundred of these experiences, you can not know everything.
I do not see that you have been given specific revelation concerning these points you are making.
You have a certain outlook on things because of these experiences, but unless you are being told directly to accept certain hidden truths, I have to just take what you say only in a very general way."

As far as money goes, I am a charity case myself.
I gave a woman on the street a cigarette, yesterday.
When I did have money, I spent it all helping people out, and now I am broke.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Comforter

It is hard to explain how I think about you.
I was hoping you might explain yourself, but never mind.

I have told the truth in all my posts and you are right I do not know everything but I do know many.

I do know about death, the tunnel of light and that if a person does not know about Soul Prison it would be hard to explain. Soul Prison is where Yeshua/Jesus went in spirit after His death and before Resurrection. It is His spiritual journey through that end of the vine to Heaven on the other that freed our way to follow Him and in so doing join together in His Father's Kingdom of crystal and translucent light.

I do not want to ramble on about something you are not interested in though please ask me what you wish to know. I feel a suffering in your soul perhaps I can help.


[edit on 1-8-2008 by Comforter]

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Comforter]

reply to post by Comforter


You have gone further than I have.
I have told this story a few times on this forum.
I got taken down to what I would have to think is the very first stage.
It seemed to be a place that tested your belief system.
Some people had no idea where they were and I tryed to explain it to a few people.
God rescued me and the whole thing was over, like nothing had happened.
I would hate to have gone to where you did and you have to be a lot tougher than me, to make it through all that.
I am glad you are back and I am sure there is a good reason for that.
As for myself, I do not feel as mentally tortured as I was before.
I used to go to sleep for 10 or fifteen minutes and wake up soaking wet from sweat.

reply to post by jmdewey60


If a person dies before the Gathering at Megiddo they should know:

1. They will lift above their body or “clay vessel”. Behind them is the vine of light that they must enter or become a wondering ghost.
2. Traveling inside the vine they eventually see the four spheres of Nirvana, they near the entrance to Soul Prison. Heaven is the other way if they are ready for judgment.
3. Avoid any invitations from the sides or walls of the vine as there are groups like parasites inside of intestines the represent themselves falsely. Anyone entering such will find it harder to leave.
4. Remember the blue trim on the Jewish prayer shawl.
5. Love the Son and Father with all your heart and soul.

I will say something hard now. When I (in angelic form) whispered in the Fathers ear I looked over His shoulder and saw him placing asteroids on the outskirts of a newly made world. I softly whispered “Sir, something terrible is about to happen on Earth”. He turned, He grew gigantic, His eyes aflame and yelled “ I left My Son in charge of that place!” I became one with His thought. He was about to destroy this world and cast it into darkness with all the effort of an artist crumbling a sketch. He emitted light beams touching the other worlds He has created to see if they were under attack by the Sons of Darkness….

This is enough for now.

“Not every one has the merit of two tables”-ibid. 5b, i.e. happiness here and bliss in the Hereafter. It was asked of a Rabbi in Babylon, “Who will be a son of the World to Come?” “He who is meek and humble, walks about with a lowly demeanour, studies the Torah constantly, and takes no credit to himself.”-Sanh. 88b.-Page 368 or Everyman’s Talmud.

This does not sound like any Pope I have seen.

On page 371 of this same book we find: Here follows a description of the trial of the nations. “In the Heareafter, the Holy one, blessed be He, well take a Scroll of the Torah, sit it upon His lap and say, “Let him who occupied himself therewith come and receive his reward.” First comes the kingdom of Rome because it is the most important; and the Holy One, blessed be He, asks, “With what have you occupied yourself?” It answers “Lord of the Universe! Many market-places have we instituted, many baths have we erected, gold and silver in abundance have we accumulated; and we only did all this for the sake of Israel that he might devote himself to the Torah.” The Holy one, blessed be He, replies, “You most foolish people in the world! All that you did was for your own benefit; you instituted market-places as a resort of harlots; you erected baths for your own enjoyment; while the silver and gold belong to Me.”

I warn again if you are in the belly of the Wore of Babylon, Catholicism, get out and learn of Judaism. Then instead of the foul smell of pig you will be as a flower and please your Lord (G-d of Israel).

A fascist, a fanatic, anyone who has spent too much time in misconduct will have so much to remove to make them right for presence in Heaven that no character or “salt” shall remain. Such will be thrown into the fire as just another weed.

It is later than you think, only your belief will leave with you. Prepare now.
www.youtube.com...


[edit on 2-8-2008 by Comforter]

reply to post by Comforter


I did not die.
Or, at least, I do not think so.
I was in a hospital where people were dying every day.
It was a VA hospital connected to a medical university.
It was for cases that were not expected to get better.
There were demons who roamed about in this place collecting souls.
Five of them came up through the floor and said, "We have been waiting a long time for you to be vulnerable."
Then I had what people call an out-of-body-experience.
One was at my head and one was each of my limbs.
They grabbed ahold of me and pulled me down through the floor.
I fell down and down through a dark tunnel and ended up in a place that had very low rolling hills covered with green grass.
It was well lit but with no sun.
I hung out in an area with some trees and some benches and tables.
People were there, just standing around or sitting, and after a while individuals would wander off.
More people would show up and replace the ones who left.

I was raised as a Seventh Day Adventist and was taught to not eat pork and to keep the Sabbath and to regard the Catholic Church as the anti-Christ.
I studied Judaism at the local Temple under a rabbi who had a doctor's degree in how the Jews and Christians split apart.
He had a mission to bring better understanding between the religions.
He knew the elder at my church and had a lot of respect for the man.
He also knew my sister from his community college religion class.
So, I was tolerated because he spoke up for me in the congregation.
I decided after three years that it makes no sense for a Christian to try to join the Jews.
I think it is better to have Christians understand what it means when we call Jesus the Messiah.
This knowledge is the key to all understanding, in my opinion.

Just watched the video you linked to.
Kind of like a nursery rime.
It would be something good for every one to memorize and be able to rattle off to any one else.
Great little teaching tool.
(seems to be an appeal to Adventists to get off their butts and spread the word)


[edit on 2-8-2008 by jmdewey60]

Your last letter reminds me of my only surviving memory of being a baby in a world of crystal. We had thicker outer shells than do the angels. Our world was over ran by these gargoyles or Sons of Darkness. I have seen the same here in bedroom closets and in hospital rooms even hanging around cars before their owners have fatal accidents.

When the vine of light travels through space it pierces areas filled with these demons, destroying some. So they look for a way in. When Satan and his angels came to Earth to breed with women they left part of our vine unguarded. The Sons of Darkness got in. I believe both the angels and these are a form of high technology that wage war with minimal collateral damage.

When I delivered G-d's message to Satan these were all around him as were Nazi and Greek helmeted zombies of skeletons covered with rotten flesh.

The greatest number of followers of evil come from fascist states. This includes the Church of Rome.

The greatest crime of the Vatican is to keep it's wealth of knowledge from all mankind.

Paul' armor does not work against the Sons of Darkness. Jesus/Yeshua had weapons that worked but the truth of His life are now hidden.

This Church of Rome has hidden a form of Ophinum or Qi-Gung (Chi-kung) that He instructed His follower on. This builds all the tools that are written about His time on Eath. Only by claiming these ways back to His teachings may we achieve the miracles He did.

Oh and to build His home of earth, un-huen wood and un-worked stone makes humans invisible to the Sons of Darkness. At the time of the Rapture or Gathering our souls will be as uncovered lights to those who hunt them (Gargoyles). The Harvesters can only provide limited protection.

Worlds of light have fallen to the Sons of Darkness. They enter as though through a dark line that becomes a door and they come from a lower elevation. Angels enter as though by a ripple of a sheet and come from above but about twice as far from our ground.

I had hoped to give you a prepared message. Forgive this ramble I thought it important to give you a reply. Some of these Sons of Darkness include those who have died and stay around to take over a body in the hopes to fulfill longings they had while alive. I assure you, you are not at all mad but nearly awake.

What was mad was the place where I was, meaning that hospital.
But I had to be there, otherwise I would not be alive.
I just managed to get there in time and was practically in a coma for a long time.
I had a bad blood infection and was running a high fever for a lot of days.
Something happened to me that took twenty years to recover from.
This strange experience happened about a month after I got out of the fever but it was like something had gotten inside of me and tried to kill me any way it could.
I bring all this up because I am trying to show how I could relate to your story and that I know better than to just blow stuff like that off.
You seem to me to be someone who would be a threat to messing up the workings of the forces of evil.
That comes from some of your other posts about how you actually do things to intervene in situations.
That makes you a target and they will go to a lot of trouble to take you down, including dragging you through hell and trying to break your faith.

reply to post by jmdewey60



As to my faith I believe this:

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mt. 3.10 · Lk. 3.9
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mt. 12.33

And this:

Lk. 13.24
13 ¶ Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


I also believe if we are to widen the gate to life we must follow Jefferson's lead. Looking at the life of Jesus I see a few omitted Jewish items. And can not help but feel His life story would make a wonderful tool for learning Messianic Judaism which would be the truest Christianity.

I believe His birth was during the Feast of SuKkot six months after the birth of His cousin John. John would have been born during Pesach (Passover). So what was little Jesus doing in Jerusalem when He was only 12? His cousin would have just turned 13-Bar Mitzvah!

Wouldn't that be a great book!

I would like to see the Vatican open up it's library to all and include those seven missing pages from the Gospel of Mary Magdalene.

When I was poisoned I found a blood cleaner (Chinese). I have it scanned into my Documents but I do not know how I could copy a Chinese herbal formula onto this post. Astragalus

altmedicine.about.com...

www.umm.edu...

is one of the primary herbs.

As for me I will be the last to get inside the Tower at Megiddo (Hebrew: מגידו‎)
You can guess what I'll be doing at that time as there are no chains in Heaven to bind a General with.
No chance of my faith being taken from me. I remember the look in that General's eyes when he received the message. His mind had been clouded by the Son! This is a common tool of the Son and it explains how the General could have been so stupid. His followers are in a far thicker cloud.

reply to post by Comforter


We would not even know about the boy Jesus discussing with the teachers in the Temple if not for Luke.
He is thought to have had a relationship with the mother of Jesus and learning the stories that she had.
The thing is that she was a member of the priestly family who were eligible to be High Priest.
John could have and chose instead to fight the system.
Jesus would have had the possibility of being High Priest handed down to him as being next in line.
If you look at the list of High Priests, you see that the Caiaphas family was handing it down to each other.
After Pilot shows up, someone out side of this illegitimate family becomes High Priest but for only one year.
That person seems to vanish out of history.
Before Jerusalem is destroyed, the good people who were in favor of opening the gates and letting in the Romans found the most popular person in the city to talk to the rebels, to convince them to stop.
He was an old man who was a former High Priest named Jesus.
Funny thing is there is no one on the list that would correspond to him.



[edit on 3-8-2008 by jmdewey60]

First here is an insight I found after my last post concerning what the Roman church hid concerning Our Lords Earthly birth:

biblicalholidays.com...

Among the knowledge above you will see:
On the last day and greatest day of the Feast of Tabernacles (the day the Rabbis poured the water) Jesus stood (calling special attention to his message) and proclaimed Himself the very fountain of living water in John 7:37-38.

Yes, my friend, we have a lot to be thankful for from Luke. Yet the Catholic Order would have us believe that the followers of Yeshua/Jesus traveled only West to the home of the Whore in Rome! Nothing could be further from the truth.

Now as for the followers led by the Architect and Twin, Thomas:

www.religion-online.org...

In the above we find:
Asia produced the first known church building, the first New Testament translation, perhaps the first Christian king, the first Christian poets, and even arguably the first Christian state. Asian Christians endured the greatest persecutions. They mounted global ventures in missionary expansion the West could not match until after the thirteenth century. But then the Nestorian church (as most of the early Asian Christian communities came to be called) exercised ecclesiastical authority over more of the earth than either Rome or Constantinople.(Samuel Hugh Moffett, A History of Christianity in Asia, Harper, San Francisco, 1992, p. xiii [see also Jean Danielou, The Theology of Jewish Christianity. P. 2])

Somehow the above accomplishments were overlooked by authors brainwashed by Catholicism.

What if our Lord took on the clay vessel of flesh to become our friend. To learn why we are so driven by lust and enchanted by self importance.
What if the Roman Church is wrong that instead of a Demi-God He was only a man. A man that stepped from His Heavenly Throne but for a moment to help His people find their way back to Him. By looking through their eyes.
Once He saw the economic chains on His people He lead them in a Revolt.
He shook the greatest Empire of that day by leading an economic revolt, an Empire wide Jubalee! Give Caesar back his money, his courts and his ways rather spread all wealth among yourselves to destroy the tax system.
So the Empire sent Sol/Paul to break the revolt with lies!

If I tell you Heaven has more to do with an advanced technology than magic would His sufferings mean less?

Here is what I believe to be an accurate historical beginning, the first step away from the lies of the Roman Church and a look at the bigger picture:

www.youtube.com...

Catholicism is part of false religion and God will soon wipe it from existance along with Islam and the rest of false religion (babylon the great in revelation).

i was once a student of a catholic scholl and even now i am still. but i would like you to discredit that fact because i am standing ont he reality that catholics are not christian.

in this i would like to begin this discussion with the question" if catholics are christian(as they say) how is it so that they are not believing on the teachings fo jesus Christ who died for them?" if they say that they believe in Jesus Christ, why is it hard for them to accept the reality that salvation is through faitha nd not of works nor in the fact that there is no such as PURGATORY! rather one goes only to hell or heaven.

i would also like to tell the catholics in regards of their claim that christ estavlish their chucrh- why is it that in the past and even today the church establish by christ wants to kill and is persecuting people?? are that trying to say that that kind of church is under the power of the Divine? did the Christ i mention kill? persecute?

catholics should establish this strong argument or that will continue to live in total ignorance of the gospel of christ who died for me and you alike two thousand years ago so that i will live in eternity with him. this is a fact so hard to be accepted by catholics.....

catholics should rethink!!!!!!!!

reply to post by rhiicstcherub319


I wold like to thank you very much for your input at this tme.
I hae noticed on this thread there are three main typs of people. Non-Catholics with a general idea about the Catholic Church, Die hard born and bred Catholics and reformed (or as I like to call them 'recovering' ) catholics. the first and last of these three seem to be at odds against the middle group. the main thing I have noticed is that there is nobody that seems to have 'chosen' to be catholic over any other religion (except those who converted simply to get married).
This tells me that the born and breds are essentially brainwashed (for want of a better word) from birth...