Wrong. I'm not like Jane Doe. And if you are wrong about that just what else could you possibly be wrong about?

I worship in Spirit, which is the correct way but I don't knock others for how they are able to worship. I don't need others to figure things out for myself, I have the time and am more than willing to do the work myself. I enjoy it. I live it and I breathe it but I will never tell anyone my way is better than their own.

What good is there in knocking others? Especially when the playing ground is not level for everyone? Some people are far more advanced in their spirituality than others but that doesn't make them any better off. In fact, it's worse on them because more is expected of them.

Originally posted by MegaTherion
if I say the only way is through me, and have 12 guys write twelve stories of how wicked cool I am, and get myself arrested and fake my death, wait a thousand years.... there will be millions of people like you who will beleive the whole thing.

this is what is happening with L Ron Hubbard right now. he was a drug addict, all the way to his death.
he was a criminal and a litigous curmudgeon.

i see, so now this jesus fellow is rolling in money! the bastard. living it up at the vatican with a girl under each arm. and all he had to do was wait a thousand years.... hey wait, would jesus be dead? of what benefit would the scam be to jesus now.

why? he was in it for the money. when he wasn't getting as much in as he thought he should, he squeezed the members and pushed for recruitment, and raised the price of his 'techs'

except noone in the first century was living the vida loca in the first century, they were persecuted and killed for being christians. so where's the benefit.

when enough people got to the 'final level', he just 'discovered' another one and wrote up a new tech while blazing on speed.

why do people fall for it?

Hard sell techniques, and of course, a grain of usefulness. in fact, even William Seward Burroughs thought that the original Dianetics was very useful.

see, it's after they hook you that they charge you more and more for increasingly useless stuff.

in OT3 you essentially ouija board YOURSELF to exorcise your demons... woops! I mean body thetans.

i still fail to see what the similarity with christians is.

but back to xtianity.

you are following to the letter a text that has been translated hundreds of years ago for the third time by a group of people whose livelihood depends on fleecing you, and to fleece you, they must own you.

except that the bible conflicts with the church's beliefs, if you actually read it instead of reading what other people say about it, then you would see that.

to own you they convince you that there is an invisible man, who lives in the sky and watches everything you do, every day of your life, and makes lists of things he will punish you to eternal damnation for if you do them... but he loves you.

not exactly what the bible says does it?

how exactly do you know that demons have no bodies?

because the bible says so.

actually the bible says they are spirit creatures hence they have spirit bodies, also in the days of noah they made bodies (human)

why is adultery wrong?

because the bible says so

adultery cause a considerable amount of pain for people, you dont need a bible to tell you that

Neophobia begotten by control.

if you are a man of intelligence, why would you suppose a supreme being would be so concerned with what you think of him?

why wouldnt he be if he created us?

if a supreme being is so merciful, why is there a way to mess up, unless he WANTS you to mess up?

mercy doesnt equal stupidity. god wont give mercy to those who dont want it.

oh, but he LOVES you, so we have to reconcile that by picking a prominent angel called Satan, who seems to be pretty tight with the Big Guy (see Job)
and we'll make him Angra Mainyu, that is, the Evil God, god's twin, so that way we can blame all the bad stuff on him.

see revelation were satan is cast out.

What is wrong?
What is right?

you seem to know.

there are only relatives to an intelligent man, there are things that aid survival and things that aid death.

safe/danger. survival/non-survival.

so what is not safe is Evil.

what is safe is Good.

an intelligent man is a practical man. if something is found to be helpful to him, he will adopt it, label it good. if he finds something to be harmful, that he labels bad.

except the bible goes beyond the simplistic animal instinct of survival and says that love for others is good.

high morality or animal instinct?

final point:

why do you assume an angel is a physical being? an angel or even god is beyond you, so they would not be confined to a body, as you are.

angels are physical? news to me.

maybe a discorporate being would be like a man, not evil or good, just trying to survive.. well, maybe they eat our emotions, our beliefs.

keyword: maybe. but what proof is there?

do you call the wolf evil for eating the rabbit?
perhaps the carrot can forgive the rabbit for eating it.

this is intelligence.

everything has to eat.

so that means that obviously demons and spirits are eating us? what?!?!

look if your going to go around bible bashing, at least know what your talking about. in any debate you have to have at least a basic knowledge of you opponents beliefs

you guys are so silly.

I like you

you can miss the point and get the point at the same time.

I think this is called 'cognitive dissonance'

one thing I was trying to get across is that you are replacing thought with biblical quotation.

angels are ______ because the bible says _______.

no questioning the validity of the bible's authority at all.

it just IS true. it resembles the argument:

2 year old: but... why?

adult: because.
2yo: because why?

adult: because mommy said so.


you understand now don't you?

Originally posted by MegaTherion
no questioning the validity of the bible's authority at all.

it just IS true. it resembles the argument:

2 year old: but... why?

adult: because.
2yo: because why?

adult: because mommy said so.


you understand now don't you?

i understand what you are saying.

but how can you relate to my beliefs if you havent researched the same things i have.

you look at the bible and i presume you see a man made book used to control people.

i look at the bible and i see 1600 years of writing from people of all walks of life (some writers were doctors, kings, princes, fisherman, tax collectors, prophets, etc etc etc) and yet it is still harmonious. i see prophecy that is incredible specific that has been fulfilled to the letter (fall of babylon, jesus' life, signs of the times, etc etc).

i see a bible that is accurate historically even though critics constantly attack it (the existance of assyria, the fall of pharoah and how they found chariot parts in the red sea).

i agree, some people do not challenge the validity of the bible and yes they do follow blindly. but that doesnt apply to all christians.

i also agree with some of the people on this board that a majority of religion has been used for control. but think about it, if there is only one way to worship god, then logically the majority (99%) of religions would be corrupt.

i understand what your saying, i just dont completely agree

Lets understand that most folk who rail against the Bible have not read it or not thoroughly enough to get the context of the message and cut them some slack....my take on the OP is that there is a spiritual struggle taking place inside the OP's heart and soul...I hear the love of Yeshua in there...and Yeshua often referred to the scriptures..or the Torah as it was then known by many (and still today)...Here is my take on this "old book" which is actually many books written over a very long period of time...the message is clear regardless of translations...if the OP will simply sit down with it , ask guidance from the Holy Spirit who according to Yeshua "brings us to into all knowledge and truth", and read it from start to finish taking time even with the difficult parts, the message will be clear to the OP as well..and will transform the OP's life...at that point, xtians or Christians will no longer trouble the mind because in obedience to Yeshua, love for one brothers and sisters regardless of their grasp or non-grasp of spiritual principles will be the guide...

And it's this love that Yeshua gave to us when we were still his enemies...

With great love in Christ
realshanti