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Overthrowing the United States Government

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posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by iwant2believe1992

dude, do you realize that a reform would screw us up MORE? countries are weak during times of change. we have EXTREMIST MUSLIMS WITH WEAPONS AND HATRED OF US against us. why don't we hand Osama Bin Laden the deed to the White House and say, "here, sir. you've scared us senseless. we're terrified. you win." while we're at it? good job, einstein. you just offered Al Quaeda the knife to cut our Achilles' Heel. do you know word one of politics? if we reform, they WILL take the opportunity to destroy us. There will be no reform if we wish to live in a paradise (only compared to Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you want YOUR daughter given to your customers because you stopped working your poppy farms due to the legal system? i think not.) so thanks, mr. freedom-killer. be sure to tell me who you vote for. remind me to vote for the other candidate.


See how well this is working?

A NEW member! A guy who 'wants to believe' signed up just to respond to your thread OP! You are making people thing!

This is a good think.

Welcome to ATS Iwant2believe1992.
Enjoy your stay!




[edit on 7/6/2008 by garyo1954]




posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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thank you. i love it here. i feel at home already ^_^



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by justamomma
 




Your like a wise sage momma,lol.(looks weird typing 'momma',lol)But seriously another great,wisdom filled post.Smart too,by saying "don't use my name".Lol,I dont blame you.
[edit on 7/6/2008 by jkrog08]


lmfao well, i was just throwing ideas out there. i thought for discussion sake. hey, i'm irish and right there in the passion and speaking before thinking stage as well... fact is, i was only thinking.. i am really good at leaving for a bit and thinking about it from objective view point. there is always something to seeing it from another's perspective to help ya get your thoughts back in check.

right now the government is setting up things against us, yes........ but their main focus is on each other.. govt's are butting heads right now and it can go anyway at this point. i just feel the best thing that most of us can do is educate ourselves and those around us (but not in a confrontational manner, be subtle and hit on things that interest them). get into the issues of the candidates and choose one wisely, not flippantly.

now is not the time for hot heads like some of us to be jumping into anything. again, their focus is elsewhere...... educate.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 6-7-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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There comes a time in every civiliation that makes too kinds of people, The first set of people are the sheeple, and the second set are the ones who know that the government is doing them no good. In all things big and small one person will not change the course of history.

The sheeple will either figure it out and stand together or they will be slaughtered like the sheep they are. The other people who know whats going on will be called terrorists or extremists and looked apon by the government as the enemy.

It amazes me how many people are so clueless or so stuck on there own simple greed driven lives that they do not stop and wonder why we pay 4.26 a gallon for fuel, Or why goood hard working Americans are loosing there jobs because some corperate asshat figured out he can send the companies business to a third world country so he and is board members can get a bigger paycheck.

The saddest part about all of this is that the consitution is not followed anymore and the governement views it as a piece of paper and its worth about as much as the money we carry in our pockets.

The bottom line is that we the people can either take back our country and do whats in the best intrest of the people and not the ones who are making the most profit.

The revolution taught us that we the people could over come a bad master with bad intentions and we could unite and make the changes we wanted. So what has changed? Were are the patriots that are willing to defend there country and there consitution?

We the people have the RIGHT and the moral obligation to remove any administration that does not work in the best intrest of the people it serves.
Ever notice that a LEO will make you think that he or she is next to god, That they have the right to push you around and treat you like a common criminal?

Apparently they have forgotten that they are in service to the PUBLIC and they will do as the public see's fit. Our government is no diffrent as the governement should fear its people.

This has gotten out of hand, I dont want to be spyed on, I dont want to be told what i can and can not do in my own home or in my own car. I can not believe that people actually put up with all the excessive price increases in the "USA these days. 4 bucks for a gallon of gas? get real, I dont see the government stepping in to stop this? It could be because everyone who is of the upper class including those in office are making a killing off of it.

We have a 200 year surplus and yet they still have us paying an arm and a leg for fuel. fuel demand has gone down almost 40% and yet the price goes up, You cant tell me that its the war in iraq or the oil providers who are causing this as i have stated before we have enough oil in this country to support us and do it cheaply.

GREED is the key here, So at what point are people going to put an end to this? People just keep adapting to this and start riding the bus or riding a bike instead of driving because they cant afford to drive anywere anymore not even work.

How many of our friends,family and loved ones have to die or go without because some jerk is making alot of money on the war? I find it sad that we can send 60 billion dollars to Africa for aids education but we cant even take care of our own people and vets.

So either sit on your collective ass's and do NOTHING or ban together and take back what we are owed



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


I agree with you if i imagin this from a posetive side.

Time is a factor that we cant change. But time can change us. Time is a scale that can tip both ways. Good times and bad times
Good choises and bad choises.

Can hope tip a scale to the positive side ?

The funny thing is that i know what youre going to say so far


I magin this :

What is on a 18-19 year olds minde when it comes to imaginations , goals and dreams. Hove do you think they will relate to balancing the scale !

Teenagers dont know what they have done before they have done it. Moust of them dont include moral issues with their goals and dreams. They want to experiance and learn the lesson we have done. Good or bad.

I became a Combat Diver in 1991 at the age of 20. If i had a chanse to change this i would. Every year i see 7 to 800 new dreamers wanting to become what i am.

When i intervue these dreamers they say that they want to fight for freedom and ouer rights "politics". Then i ask them : Do you think its Ok to kill someone just because a politition say its OK. This now becomes a personal moral issue. I can see it on their faces that they wherent prepared for that question. But they all say yes in the end. But why is that ?

Now this is what i think. Moral is a issue that is in the way of leting us do the cool stuff we see others do. In other words its in the way for us to reach ouer goals. They dont realy care until they have seen the back side of their imagination. Wanting to become a fighter pilot is the same thing. They want to fly a fast jet and do cool stuff. The jets look very cool to. They know it s killing maskin, But that moral issue dont consern them. Their dream of flying a fighter comes above all other moral things.

If youre boy dreams about becomeing a fighter pilot. Do you think you could talk him out of it ?

Ouer choises are based on ouer imagination ,dreams and goals. But where dose moral come in this picture. It seam like moral is the lesson we have to learn as time go by. If thats the trend we live by. We realy dont know what tomarrow will bring right. So hope of better times becomes like the lottery. You winn a little but you loose more.

Is that why the world sees a lot of bad thing ? Because we realy dont ever learn from ouer or others mistakes or care about them at all. The goal is the only fokus and the only thing that mathers. Ouer ego is what mathers and it gives us the status in the inviorment we suronds us by. Hope is just air and cant tip the scale only actions makes a reaction.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:44 AM
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Well, here's my 2 cents. Don't know if this has already been stated, but to me, it's more of a matter of trust than it is of standing up for what I believe in. To stand up to the US gov alone is totally silly. The judicial process is bought out when it needs to be and corruption is everywhere, but it's on every level of America, from Gov, to corporations, to local lodges. It's the current "american way" I suppose. My point about trust though, is that of trusting my fellow american to stand up as well. On a small level, I tried this and it failed. The basic thing that happened was there was a group of us, maybe 100 people who are pretty much the only ones in our city qualified to do a certain type of work. So, in my head, we have all the control. The basic employers that need us don't pay us what we are worth. So, my attitude is to help all. I then began calling every single one of these people and asking them to join a protest or strike with me in one month's time. About 90% agreed, maybe even a bit higher than that. The remaining 10% could not cover the jobs unless they worked 90+hours a week, 7 days a week each, and still not sure if they could. Anyhow, so the 90% agrees. Two weeks go by, I call the 90% again and everyone is a go for protesting in the form of a strike. So about two days before it's going to happen, I tell them I am going to negotiate with the business owners and get us a fair wage. Not ask for the moon, but just fair and something they can afford as well. I call everyone the day before and tell them "tomorrow is the day are you ready?" Can you guess how many bailed out? All but about 2 people!!!! TWO PEOPLE!! THey bailed on me less than 24 hours beforehand and if I wouldn't have called them, they were all going to just show up to work anyways. Can you believe this?!!? I have seen this type of behaviour before and figured since we had such a stranglehold on our employers, I felt we were all but guaranteed the raise. Everyone bailing made me realize that it's rare I could depend on anyone's word in the US when push came to shove. I know people have families and responsibilities, but so many americans are either lazy, scared and have no vision for the future instead of living day to day. Nothing wrong with living day to day, but why not live day to day AND try and help your future. So, what I ended up doing? I just asked for and got the raise for myself. Didn't mention it to anyone as I don't care what they are making. I realized what I was taught all all along growing up......you can't depend on anyone but yourself. This is a little bit of an exaggeration because I trust my significant other and family, but basically, it kind of stops there. So, I have learned to take care of myself and my family by my best means and not worry about my neighbor's well being as much. I have my decent savings and retirement, I grow more and more of my own food. I compost and am starting to save rainwater, etc... Solar power is next. I don't plan on having to be self sufficient, but I wouldn't mind being more self sufficient even if the economy in the US rebounds and prospers greatly again. It makes a more well rounded person who can sew, garden, build, repair, etc... Because Americans are the way they are and usually just live and make decisions based off of fear, I think most people should learn to be more self sufficient and take care of themselves/family with as little help from the outside world as possible. if the s#^t hit the fan I wouldn't be ready right now or even this time next year, but I'm getting closer each day. Didn't mean to derail the topic exactly, but wanted to mention why I wouldn't commit to something like the OP stated.


JPT



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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reply to post by justpassingthrough
 



I think you spent youre 2 cents very well. I have tried somthing simular as well. And came to the same conclution. We know what we have but not what we could have. Its the fear of loosing and the thought of getting hurt. That makes us chicken out. But hove much is hope worth if its not put into action.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by o22a6ar
 

that little old patriot act IIkinda makes you a terrorist if you talk about this.so....
dont expect too much on this subject ,since you can be arrested and never seen again for agreeing with this concept.
i like being first in line for concert tickets,not a new fema camp or worse.
besides,they're screwing up so bad,it wont last much longer,it will self destruct soon.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by justpassingthrough
 



I think you spent youre 2 cents very well. I have tried somthing simular as well. And came to the same conclution. We know what we have but not what we could have. Its the fear of loosing and the thought of getting hurt. That makes us chicken out. But hove much is hope worth if its not put into action.


Thanks! I think we all want change. Some are scared, some are lazy. Some really don't care. Some think that we are all paranoid. There are probably other scenarios as well, and you know what, anything is possible. What you mention is very similar to the reason why people stay in abusive relationships. I'm not talking about the terrible, terrible ones, but the bad enough ones. People stay in because they fear it could get worse and at least they know what they have. I'm not into that mentality. I'm into taking a decent sized risk for a better future. I have been lucky in this regard as the majority of my risks have come out better than what I had before. Hey, if you're not willing to risk something, for something better, then just be prepared to live with what you have and in the US, right now what we have isn't all that great. The financial burden on everyone has gotten out of hand this year. Our poor truck drivers having to pay 10-20% more for diesel fuel, when diesel used to be 10-20% cheaper, at least. They are the heart and soul of distribution in America and they are getting screwed more than most in the US. I'm not one, but I feel for them as I travel alot and they have a life in which every penny they make is EARNED, big time. Anyhow, I'm rambling and going off topic. Thanks again for the nice words. There can be change in this country, I just don't know how to go about it. It's really hard to stop that huge boulder rolling down that steep hill. There's a way, but man, you have to be VERY careful or that thing will smush you! Must be smart about fighting the good fight.

JPT



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by justpassingthrough

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by justpassingthrough
 



I think you spent youre 2 cents very well. I have tried somthing simular as well. And came to the same conclution. We know what we have but not what we could have. Its the fear of loosing and the thought of getting hurt. That makes us chicken out. But hove much is hope worth if its not put into action.


There can be change in this country, I just don't know how to go about it. It's really hard to stop that huge boulder rolling down that steep hill. There's a way, but man, you have to be VERY careful or that thing will smush you! Must be smart about fighting the good fight.

JPT


This comment made me think of a statement made in the US in 1909. Thats when they talked about changing man kinde by starting ww1 and ww2.

This is what the polititions talked about.

Norman Dodd, former director of the Committee to Investigate Tax Exempt Foundations of the U.S. House of Representatives, testified that the Committee was invited to study the minutes of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace as part of the Committee's investigation. The Committee stated: "The trustees of the Foundation brought up a single question. If it is desirable to alter the life of an entire people, is there any means more efficient than war.... They discussed this question... for a year and came up with an answer: There are no known means more efficient than war, assuming the objective is altering the life of an entire people. That leads them to a question: How do we involve the United States in a war. This is in 1909."

The US is a product of ww1 and ww2 so is the rest of the world. Only a disaster can change whats happening to day. Because the boulder is to big to stop. And if you are lucky to hack of a pice a new one will only takes its place.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 05:29 AM
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Yeah, agree with all you said. Didn't want to repost it all, but yeah, the war thing is really terrible to think about. I think nature will take care of us when we get too big, I wish man would quit trying to control it. One thing I am kind of on the fence about is since the boulder can't be stopped, (since you can't have a "good guy" be president of the US or he won't be around long, ask the Kennedy family) I am on the fence about is the way of thinking that if it's unstoppable, maybe it's a good idea to make yourself something desirable. I think it's a good way of thinking regardless of what's going on in this world, but if you pursue being educated, whether it's formally through school, or just learning on your own, and if you pursue a job in which there is much demand, etc... This could only help you in every way. If the conspiracies are right, don't you think that those in charge aren't going to want to get rid of smart, helpful people (helpful in the way that helps society or what's left of it). They may seek you out, offer you a job. Not that you want to join the "darkside" but when your choices are feed your family, and feed them well at that, or die for a bunch of people who could care less (most of america) I think the choice is pretty easy. Or let's say you educate yourself and get a good job that is in demand, well, when the crap hits the fan, you are going to be in that much better of a situation because your job will most likely be one of the ones that will not go away, or will take immense, immense measures to go away. This is good as well. Or, if you just take it that the world will be fine and none of this stuff is going to go crazier than it is, at least you have a good job, you are educated and you have good security. I have no real school training, but I always get the job above the schooled because I am good at what I do and have experience and am easy to work with and work hard. Sometimes those little things can carry you through the hard times as well. I sometimes think it's more important to educate yourself and make yourself in demand more than stockpiling food and weapons. Bullets will run out and food will run out as well, not to mention if there is any type of nuclear war and you have to leave your stockpile or can only bring a few days of your food, it would be much better that have some better things to trade than just some guns in which bullets are scarce if you have any left in the first place. For example, if you are a doctor in a smaller community and you are the only one, don't you think that the community will make sure you stay healthy and alive to help others? Sure, after the panic and things settle down, the doctors will be kept fed and kept healthy. The lawyers might not be so fortunate. Just more things to think about. The strong and smart and will almost always survive, for the rest, well, good luck. I feel I have enough knowledge of farming, building and other useful things that I'll be of use much more than the majority of my neighbors. Not trying to preach on here, but just want to mention other things to think about as well. I'll probably get a warning on this post since I'm deviating very much from the original topic. Anyhow, all of these things we are discussing are good to know or at least think about should the gov collapse or be under real physical threat.

JPT

[edit on 6-7-2008 by justpassingthrough]

[edit on 6-7-2008 by justpassingthrough]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 06:20 AM
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Freedom of speech eh? Oh ok. I wish to exercise my freedom to say ..: "I WISH THE PRESIDENT WAS DEAD".

Lets see how free it is.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by Mabus
If ppl wont go about changing it a legit, peaceful way, then they wont go about changing it a violent way.

I'm for changing it however in more than one way to flood the bad parts and bad ppl out. Yep, got to do it at more than one angle to get the job done.


I see where you guys are coming from, but you will just end up dead.

You are badly out numbered, and out gunned.

The FEMA camps around the US have been set up for ppl that
think like this and you will be lined up against the red squares
on the fence. After that you can guess what happens.

www.youtube.com...

The new 8" high pressure gas main on the bldg is there for burning
something, think back to nazi germany.

Keep in mind Prescott Bush went to trial for his work at the union bank
supporting nazi germany.

en.wikipedia.org...

His desire for a fascist USA has already gained much ground:

en.wikipedia.org...

So before you go marching to save the US, you need to realize
what your up against, and why some of the JFK files are still
classified to this day.

Save yourself and your family, get ready to hide away from any
major city.

They paid $50,000 in cash to have their plan carved in granite
and set on a hill so that you understand they mean business.

en.wikipedia.org...

Good Luck !



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by o22a6ar
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 

Actually, it was the fireworks. As I looked up to the sky, I got all choked up thinking about what the fireworks stand for, and how they now only represent a flicker of hope for America. A couple of wrong moves, and this country could turn into a replica of Nazi Germany. It's not all that bad yet, but it could get so much worse if we don't start doing something about it. I just live here for now. I'm not really sure if I want to spend the money on UM. For now I'll stick with PGCC, the finest community college of them all
.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by o22a6ar]


As I said in my other post, the vast majority are NOT paying attention:

plans for 6.1 billion dead:

en.wikipedia.org...

Facist symbols in the US government:

en.wikipedia.org...

GWB's grandfathers ties to the nazi's and the coup of FDR:

en.wikipedia.org...

Keep in mind the JFK files are still partially classified for a reason.

My bug out bag is ready and I plan to head away from any
major city to a deep cave where I have a few hidden caches of
food and survival replies. I have no intent of trying to save
ppl that have treated me like crapola for decades.

Goodbye and Good Luck !



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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reply to post by hinky
 


Overthrowing the Government.....Theoretically, yes, it could happen. Reality? Not likely. A military dictator might be able to take control of the federal government but it would be very difficult to take over the State governments without massive support. Of course, civilian firearm ownership makes this task even harder, which is the real reason behind the 2nd Amendment. We have the right to own firearms in this country for just this scenario. Any military take over of the government would be met with stiff resistance from a sizable portion of Americans.

Now, let's consider a plane crashing into the Capitol. How would that affect government? Not much really. Let's assume that the entire Congress was killed in the attack. Not really a big deal because the State legislatures would simply appoint interim Representatives and Senators until elections could be held. Should the President be killed then we would simply follow the line of succession going from the Vice President, Speaker of the House, President pro tempore of the Senate, and then on to the Secretaries of State, Treasury, Defense, Attorney General, Secretaries of the Interior, Agriculture, Commerce, Labor, Health and Human Services, HUD, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veterans Affairs and finally Homeland Security.

Now! Should ALL of those people and the Congress be killed off at the same time THEN we might have a problem. The chances of that happening are very slim. The only real scenario that would force that would be a nuclear attack in Washington DC. But then again the State Legislatures could appoint Reps and Senators who would then appoint an interim President and Vice President.

Would there be chaos? Sure. Would it be catastrophic? Indeed. Could it be handled? Yes, but it would be difficult. Is it plausible that the entire US government would be overthrown or even killed off? Yes! Likely? No.

Not only that but FEMA has contingencies plans for things such as this. Interesting to note that FEMA only spends 10% of its budget on natural disaster preparedness. The rest goes towards ensuring the survivability of the US government.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by mopusvindictus
 

Well it is not right to think all will be well if the country is disbanded and depopulated. The fears older generation that saw WW2 have, the question that pops often 'will they (i.e. non-jews) hide and protect us..' is a valid one. If not for the zionist state, the security you speak of in US and Canada will vanish with one single financial meltdown/economic downturn.

A better solution, however ridiculous it might sound is to look for refuge in the same system that protected the Jewish people for thirteen centuries since fall of Jerusalem to the army of Muslims led by Caliph Omar. It comes with a price though,

first will be an absolute heart felt apology for the horrors zionism has inflcited on the hand that protected and died with jews (crusades, inquisition etc) for thirteen centuries.
second a pledge to expose and renounce zionist ideals as alien to jewish theology and practices.

The other price is loss of secular way of life. Islamic nations will defer to jewish religious establishments on civil issues in return for common law(sharia) on criminal matters. Rather than disbanding and depopulating the state created by zionism, it will be absorbed by a much bigger Islamic entity that takes responsibility for every one under sharia.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
The system is not supposed to be your customized little government utopia, because there are hundreds of millions of people in the US and each one wants something different from the government. The result is a compromise of gigantic proportions, where no one will ever get their little fantasized government.


An excellent description of why the government should be stripped to a bare minimum at every level.


I even knew someone was going to say this - which is why I said in the post your referring to that your dislike of the fact that the government does not bend to your will is not a call to arms.


It is not simply an individual's opinion. The Founders foresaw the danger of a government that did not respond to the will of the People or was fundamentally at odds with the Constitutional rights and best interests of the People. That is why the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution, so that a government that sees itself as the power of the authority is removed in favour of a Constitutional government that recognises that its power derives from the People, from the consent of the governed. Because the opposition to the current government is not merely the opinion of one angry man but rather represents the will of the People (at about 70 percent of public judgment at the moment in the USA), it does represent a call to arms; and, because there is great wisdom in the People, many avenues will be discussed (as they are here) and many decisions will be taken. It is the US Constitutional process at its most fundamental level.


It is a slow moving beast on purpose, because the public changes its mind on what it wants from the government routinely.


No, it is a slow moving beast because it is bloated, inefficient, self-perpetuating creature that should be put out of its misery.

What government was intended by the Founders was lean, purposed, and aware that it did not exist to control the nation or the People but rather existed to serve the Will of the People and the ensure the safety and life of the Constitutional Republic.


I'll trust the government before I trust a bunch of Rambo-wannabes trying to overthrow the government because it doesn't bow to their narrow, conspiracy oriented fantasy view of the world.


There were Royalist/Loyalists at the time of the U.S. Revolution too. No suprise there.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by o22a6ar
 


Not so necessary to overthrow the Gov't as much as it is dire we hold BushCo (esp Cheney,Rummy & Wolfie)and some CEO's, criminally responsible.
Convict them on Treason,War Crimes & crimes against Humanity and see the immediate change in the way others do business.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by Xwino

Hello sir. I am very curious about this statement. For me, the obvious reasons are not
always so obvious. So would you mind expanding on this .



I haven't seen too many armored vehicles owned by the public in general. Civilian helicopters, for the most part, are not equipped with rockets or other arms.

While the general population of the US do have access to many fine hand guns and even semi-auto rifles (there are some full auto guns in the public), our population of civilian solders would still be outclassed.

In my very first post, I stated the Republic will do whatever the Republic needs to do to save the Republic.

The general population is outclassed on all weapon aspects. It would be possible to have a very limited victory here and there with guerrilla type tactics, but long term, a guerrilla would be found and executed.




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