Alright show me the proof

Alright, for the past 1-2 years here. There's been big arguments against christians and atheists. The usual just, jesus was a ho, jesus was the son of god. Is there really life after death, or do we go to the big man upstairs with a nice soft white beard. But the thing that's got me thinking, or unthinking, is our brain chemicals make us we are. When we die a flush of chemicals pur out and we just vanish into oblivion. But what i wonder, is there any proof to this? I know there people out there in this country or are through and through chemical believers. But these people toute this fact as if it was god. But is there any proof to this that scientists might have?

Proof of what?

That when you die, you just die?

Maybe watch someone die. When they do, they just die, their life ebbs away. When people are born, they come into existence. Before that. Nothing. When they die, nothing. No spirits entering or leaving, heh.

Of course, you can believe otherwise, but there is no reason to think your consciousness is anything more than a result of your brain. When I see a disembodied consciousness, then I might think otherwise.

It really comes down to whether you think consciousness is more than a brain process. I think not, and I think the neurological evidence (brain lesions, drug effects etc) supports such a position - brain and mind are inextricably linked.

But, again, if you want to think your consciousness is not inherently connected to your brain and body. That's fine as well.

However, being an atheist doesn't preclude someone from believing in life after death/recycled 'souls', just the notion of a deity. And you appear to think this is the case.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by melatonin]

Hi, sorry about not explaining it well. I meant proof of the chemicals that spout out when we dream, are born, or die. I don't proof of after death, but what the mind does when we hit the bucket. I understand that there were many tests with drugs, but none could explain the anomiliy that some out of body practioniners tell. Usually the sigh can do things not on the lines of normal. But when people who take hallucinogens don't have the same affects as oobers. But the proof I want is that those who take psychoactive tests and have the same data, but a complete overview of retrieving the data that some apers do. Even the way that a projector may see around them in the astral. I don't want mere video, I just want hard data that these things do happen in the brain (the brain chemicals etc). I wish for some sort of proof that an nde is a hallucination, but I don't think i'm going get that. Any, thanks for the insight, take care

Ps: I don't want an atheist/agnostic, atheistis/buddhaist, or atheist/christian argument. This is just something that's been bugging me.

Originally posted by malakiem
Hi, sorry about not explaining it well. I meant proof of the chemicals that spout out when we dream, are born, or die. I don't proof of after death, but what the mind does when we hit the bucket. I understand that there were many tests with drugs, but none could explain the anomiliy that some out of body practioniners tell. Usually the sigh can do things not on the lines of normal. But when people who take hallucinogens don't have the same affects as oobers. But the proof I want is that those who take psychoactive tests and have the same data, but a complete overview of retrieving the data that some apers do. Even the way that a projector may see around them in the astral. I don't want mere video, I just want hard data that these things do happen in the brain (the brain chemicals etc). I wish for some sort of proof that an nde is a hallucination, but I don't think i'm going get that. Any, thanks for the insight, take care

As far as OBEs go, they can be reproduced in the lab, and they are associated with lesions in particular areas of the brain (temporal-parietal). So it appears to be a brain effect, no need for belief in disembodied souls etc. Olaf Blanke has been studying this phenomenon.

As for NDE, it's just a near-death exprience. So no reason to think it's anymore than the result of a brain state. The one proper study I've seen on it that is still no much more than anecdote was pretty naff.

But, again, if it makes you happy to think your consciousness can float around distinct from your body, then cool. But there is little reason to think that is the case.

Ps: I don't want an atheist/agnostic, atheistis/buddhaist, or atheist/christian argument. This is just something that's been bugging me.

Oh, yeah. Cool. I'm just pointing out that atheists could believe in some form of 'soul' or whatever, if they felt like. Atheism speaks to one thing, non-belief in deities. Perhaps 'souls' are a special natural 'substance' that are recycled upon death without the need for super-santas. Not my cup of tea, of course.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin


Hi melatonin, I know, but honestly, the evidence they give in labs and with drugs just doesn't seem to cut it. Like I want proof in whe way that scientists can convince themselves how far the sun is from earth. But I don't think i'm going get that kind of proof. It's just like all the children that have stated they knew there passed lives. It can be a little evidence, but it's a little shy of damning proof. But I go the way, you can't prove or disprove totally for sure, then I don't say there is or isn't. But the astral projection labratory reseaerch is just like all the research that went into reincarnation. There's some evidence, but none of it is damning. And there sure isn't any proof. Anyway, thanks the help.